aegrotatioYeah, VRE passengers are endlessly bitter about the fine and it's mentioned in almost every one of their regular newsletters along with the boilerplate excuse about Virginia law and blah blah blah.
Wonder if the solution would be to apply 3 use age validations to any 10 trip tickets not validated ?. Single tickets?
Aegrotatio, I generally support publicly operated transit. But very often is seems to me that these agencies just cannot avoid shooting themselves in the foot. This is one case. In these days of computers it should be very easy for VRE or New Jersey Transit to issue a single courtesy ticket to customers with identification. Then, when they come across a rider with an unvalidated ticket, they could simply look him up on the data base. If it showed he already had gotten his courtesy ticket then he would be fined; if not, this is his one strike. It sure would be good public relations. Instead they choose to constantly erode public opinion of them among precisely the segment of the public they want to have a good opinion.
Actually, New Jersey does this on the Garden State Parkway. Somehow our transponder got misplaced and I drove through an Easy Pass toll house not realizing it. Sure enough I got a summons in the mail with a fine. But there was a special block. It said if I had Easy Pass I could provide the information and mail back the summons. The toll would go on my Easy Pass bill but there would be no fine. I did that.
I wonder if NJT or VRE would consider a one no fine unvalidated ticket policy.
Aegrotatio, That sounds even worse than New Jersey Transit's $75 summons for unvalidated tickets on a light rail line. But with NJT you may not get caught at all. In Virginia are there ticket inspectors on every train?
When I rode the Newark light rail I only saw ticket inspectors in two places: Military Park and Newark Penn Station. And they were in the station; they never came on the train. It seems to me that if you wanted to get off at any other stop you would be pretty safe in not buying a ticket. On the River Line, however, ticket inspectors might be at any stop and they would come on the train and check everyone, not just those getting off.
John
henry6In commuter communities, the main station building (with agent) was always on the "inbound" side of the tracks
Henry,
I used to ride the train from Waldwick. If you look as you go by the Waldwick station is on the outbound track. When I began riding there was an agent in the station who sold tickets. Also, at HoHoKus the station is on the outbound track. However, there is a waiting room on the inbound track also. I know what you say is generally true and that generally at suburban stations the station is on the inbound track but for some reason the Erie made exceptions at Waldwick and Hohokis.
Or course this is not the old days. One advantage of TVM's is that you can put one on each track if the demand warrants it. I cannot make an argument that demand warrants it at Bloomfield but at Denville I'm sure you are correct and NJT should consider it.
In commuter communities, the main station building (with agent) was always on the "inbound" side of the tracks but varied where there was only single track. But at Denville, a second TVM is needed on the opposite side because of eastbound or inbound customers riding the Boonton-Montclair Line...it would work for both inbound B-M customers and also westbound customers for both lines.
And, yes, Seniors can buy aboard the train without penalty. But some of the trainmen don't know that and gave us a hard time out of Port Jervis once. I like to get my tickets for the day in advance, from the TVM so I can use a card. And because it takes a little pressure off the trainman/conductor. Of course, before TVM, we would have to buy aboard the train and it frustrated and bemuddled the train crews when we asked for a Sr. round trip from Hackettstown to Trenton via Newark or to BayHead from Port Jervis. Back then they'd look at us as if we were crazy, now they just look at the tickets and say, "enjoy the day" and walk away...!
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sandyhookkenCongratulations on getting a response from NJ Transit;
Thank you, Sandy. But I got a response from a Customer Service Rep. CSR's are paid to be helpful and they will do everything they can do to help you and they are sympathetic. But as simple as it would be to add a light barrier I just don't think NJT management is willing to do that to help its customers. I hope I'm wrong but I doubt it.
Today I took the train in Bloomfield. Bloomfield has one of the old DL&W concrete and brick stations. There is a poured concrete roof where you wait for the train and it is quite deep, deep enough to make the TVM screen legible so this morning I got the tickets without out a problem. But it was interesting. This morning I was going to Montclair State University which is outbound (westbound) from Newark and New York. The only TVM is on the other track and these are side platforms so it is a good hike to go to trak 1, buy your tickets, and then go to track 2. My companion was critical that there is not a TVM by each track. I know the reason is that almost no one takes an out bound train from Bloomfield. Or perhaps I am more easily satisfied.
henry6Train crews have other things to do than being clerks.
I'll tell you a secret, Henry, but please don't tell anyone else. As a senior citizen NJT lets me buy my ticket on the train with no penalty. But I use the TVM's for the reasons you state. On my line stations are close together and conductors have their hands full with the doors because some stations have high platforms and some stations have low platforms. Having a ticket makes things a little easier for train personnel.
But if you can't read the screen then in reality the machine is not working and you should not have to pay a surcharge to buy your ticket on the train.
John,
Congratulations on getting a response from NJ Transit; you did better that I did. Maybe my letter just went to the wrong people.
Please let us know if anything is ever done.
Ken
Penalty payment on board is good. Train crews have other things to do than being clerks...it takes time to transact the sale and later do the paperwork and accounting, time taken away from duties and from other passengers. So it is a fair fare. Since most stations have TVM's, there are internet purchases, mostly dealing with commuter multi ride ticket purchases (not available aboard trains), etc., it should be rare that a passenger need purchase aboard a train. But if the machine isn't working, the extra fee should be waived and the railroad pick up the extra fare tab. The extra charge should also encourage people to by tickets beforehand, be a the station within enough time before departure just like the old days when there were ticket agents.
I feature the same mentality personnel install the TVM's that are placing signals and defect detectors on my carrier - some signal locations have cluttered backgrounds that make discerning the indication displayed - from a distance - nearly impossible. Defect Detectors get installed where a train activating one and have to stop for inspection shuts down the entire railroad.
IT GOES HERE!
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
New Jersey Transit has replied to my complaint. Here is the response:
Thank you for contacting NJ TRANSIT about your experience using our Ticket Vending Machines (TVM).
I apologize for the glare, which made it difficult for you to see the screen while purchasing your tickets. Unfortunately, the conductors cannot wave the surcharge is the TVM is operational.
However, I have forwarded your feedback to our TVM technicians. This issue will be investigated so the appropriate corrective action can be taken.
Again, thank you for writing and for your support of NJ TRANSIT.
Sincerely,
Christel Thomas NJ TRANSIT Customer Service Team
Of course I'll be looking for the correction next time I ride a train from Upper Montclair.
henry6I like and am willing to use
I'm with you here, Henry. All I'm asking is that NJT provide sufficient shading so I can read the TVM, I can't see why that is so hard to do. But TVM's and similar electronic devices are here to stay because the allow electronic technology to replace manual clerical technology. And manual clerical technology is not coming back.
CSSHEGEWISCH Deggesty This solves the problem with ATM's: do not use them. However, it can be much harder getting around the problem with TVM's Unfortunately, unless your bank branch is located in a supermarket and has long hours, it's pretty rough to get by without using an ATM.
Deggesty This solves the problem with ATM's: do not use them. However, it can be much harder getting around the problem with TVM's
This solves the problem with ATM's: do not use them. However, it can be much harder getting around the problem with TVM's
Unfortunately, unless your bank branch is located in a supermarket and has long hours, it's pretty rough to get by without using an ATM.
What is so rough about it. I have NEVER used an ATM and I don't find it at all inconvenient. In fact, I find it inconvenient waiting for a co-worker to go to an ATM before we can go to lunch.
Our light rail TVMs have the same problem. Fortunately, the station where I buy my tickets has two machines, facing in opposite directions, on the platform that have the glare problem on bright days, but there are 4 more in the parking ramp that are never in direct sunlight. I have found that you can shield the screen from glare with your hand while operating it with the other.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
I like and am willing to use TVM's. I am disappointed by the attempts of train crews having handheld computer terminals to sell and print tickets. I believe both MNRR and NJT have had some experiments but have only spoken with LIRR trainmen who have quite a disdain for them. But why?
SEPTA eliminated the problem 100%, they eliminated ticket vending machines.
Patrick Boylan
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Johnny
I have no experience with NJT and their TVM's, however, I have sometimes had difficulty at some ATM's with the sun obliterating the legability of the screen. I also have trouble with ambient outdoor lighting making my laptop a seeming blank screen.
sandyhookkenwrote a letter to NJ Transit Rail Operations two years ago
Sandy,
I don't know if you intended this as a suggestion. I just sent an e-mail to NJT about my experience. If they answer I'll share the answer with you.
henry6 I am 70 years old and I am impressed with these TVM machine, what can be done, rides and routes purchased at one time instead of at every stop and turn of a day. The fact that one can use credit or debit cards or cash is well and good. If any one thing that could be added would be a voice communication with someone if there is a problem or question but not to be an agent.
I'm just a little older than you, Henry. And I agree with you completely. TVM's do work well, are reasonably easy to use and always available. Except for the issue of legibility in bright light. And that could be easily resolved by simply puting a box like structure around the screen to keep out the excess light. But NJT just doesn't care enough to do it.
This seems to be a characteristic of my transit agency. NJT really does do many things excellently, far better than they were done before NJT existed. But yet they miss important details and seem not to care that they have missed them.
CSSHEGEWISCHDid you ever try to read the face of your cell phone in bright sunlight??
Mac,
With my cell phone I can turn around and change it or even walke to a shady locaton. But I can't do that with a TVM.
sandyhookkenI wrote a letter to NJ Transit Rail Operations two years ago suggesting that they turn the TVM a quarter turn to face north, which would solve the sun problem. Never got any response; the machine still faces east.
That paragraph says it all. John
ATMs have the same problem. My bank had an eastward facing ATM that was unusable until about 1300 in the summer and 1400 in winter. Finally replaced the screen with a newer more expensive one and that seems to help about 75%.
Bonaventure10 Sell tickets at nearest coffee shop or mom and pop store? VRE used to do this...save 20,000 on each new TVM machine
Sell tickets at nearest coffee shop or mom and pop store? VRE used to do this...save 20,000 on each new TVM machine
That's no longer really viable as often station stops are no where near commercial venues nor are such venues open 24/7 or convenient to a majority of train times. I am 70 years old and I am impressed with these TVM machine, what can be done, rides and routes purchased at one time instead of at every stop and turn of a day. The fact that one can use credit or debit cards or cash is well and good. If any one thing that could be added would be a voice communication with someone if there is a problem or question but not to be an agent.
I've encountered problems at times, too. Placement of TVM has to be where light does not affect it somehow. Often a machine can be read but the position of the sun will make it difficult at other times, so just placing it out of the sun has to be done more carefully because of the times of day and year placement of the sun. Not only does the machine have to be in a covered area but also an additional visor, even adjustable, to help. Or screens have to be brighter and brightness adjusted automatically according to ambient light.
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