Ah, I'll have to check that out. I've railfanned and excursioned on VRE only but I should probably grab a ticket into WAS to see the lower level. Thanks!!
In the early '50's I had a 4th grade teacher in Denville, NJ who lived in Jersey City and reverse commuted on the DL&W. She took a Boonton Line train (or Steam Train in the vernacular) which was the first westbound out of Hoboken in the morning arriving in Denville at 8:15AM. She then walked the quarter mile to the Main St. School. I don't know what she did when that train was discontinued by the mid 50's, I think she learned to drive as there was no other westbound train that would have gotten her to Denville before the 8:30AM start of school
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1. Shaker's rush hour load was not balanced, however. Shaker emloyed part-time conductors, not authorized to operate cars, but simply sat in the operator's seat of the second and third cars (mostly PCC's at the time) to control doors and collect fares. These were actually executives who had office jobs in downtown Cleveland and worked on their morning and evening commuter trips! (Darn nice work if you can get it!) On the return trip one or two cars would have passengers with the third and sometimes the second car closed and empty.
2. According CERA's ROUTE OF THE ELECTROLINER, a charter bus company was organized by the household help specifically to provide low cost and conveninet transportation when the CNS&M Shore Line quit, since the Skokie stations were too far away, and the C&NW did not run trains as often nor have station stops as close together as the CNS&M Shore LIne. Southern terminus of the bus route was a CTA station in Evanston, unclear which one. This morphed into a regular bus service and then into the bus operation that exist today. Some of this business did switch to the C&NW trains, where stations were convenient to places of employment.
NKP guy May I chime in with an interesting reverse-commute situation? The Shaker Heights (Ohio) Rapid Transit Lines for years had a two-way rush hour on weekdays as the westbound morning runs were full of professional men on their way to their downtown Cleveland offices, while the women ("maids" years ago and "cleaners" today) filled many seats on the eastbound morning runs from their poorer neighborhoods just east of downtown. In the afternoon the situation reversed perfectly. The Shaker Rapid (as Clevelanders called it) benefited for decades from this travel pattern. Today, not quite so much, but it's still observable.I'm sure this situation must have been common on other, similar transit lines.
May I chime in with an interesting reverse-commute situation?
The Shaker Heights (Ohio) Rapid Transit Lines for years had a two-way rush hour on weekdays as the westbound morning runs were full of professional men on their way to their downtown Cleveland offices, while the women ("maids" years ago and "cleaners" today) filled many seats on the eastbound morning runs from their poorer neighborhoods just east of downtown. In the afternoon the situation reversed perfectly. The Shaker Rapid (as Clevelanders called it) benefited for decades from this travel pattern. Today, not quite so much, but it's still observable.
I'm sure this situation must have been common on other, similar transit lines.
That effect was most pronounced on the CNW Kenosha Sub serving the North Shore after the Chicago, North Shore & Milweaukee service was discontinued.
Commuting to suburban jobs is becoming a significant market in the western and northern quadrants.
Most of the tracks stub end against a bumping post. They are the upper level and are on the west side of the station fronting the main concourse without any stairways. These include the tracks with high-lvevel platforms installed for the Metroliners and used now for Acela.. About six tracks or less are the lower level and they are through tracks, all with low platforms. They are reachable by stairs, excalators, and one elevator per platform from the eastern extension of the concourse. They merge under the concourse extension and station building into the two track tunnel that leads to the viaduct or elevated structure at L'Enfanc ePlaza and then two the two-track bridge crossing the Polotmac River. At the north end of the station tracks, all are on the same level. The B&O and PRR trains used the upper level. RF&P (RF&P-ACL and RF&P-SAL), Southern, and C&O trains used the lower level, including those that the PRR handled north of Washington, with change of power, both in the pure steam days and after the PRR electrification. The PRR electrificaiton reached the double-track bridge across the Potomic, and then to the large multi-RR Potomic Yard south of Alexandria, via a freight branch and not via Washington Union, with the electrificaiton extending into the tunnel just long enough to have a "motor" pull ahead and run around its train. Today Amtrak uses both levels, Virginia Express the lower leve, and Maryland's commuter trains only the upper level.
Wow, that totally explains the awkward-looking "new" waiting area. It's not functional and I hear it's being redesigned for better crowd control. Thanks for the information.
Speaking of the old waiting area roof, it appears to be suspended from a support structure built back when parts of the roof were in danger of immediate collapse. None of the windows above the "shopping mall" area seem to let through any natural light, but in the "new" waiting area you can see the sky. I never knew that about truncating the platforms. For that matter I didn't know there were two levels. The tracks all seemed to be on the same level to me, but I'm just a tourist at WAS.
“Things of quality have no fear of time.”
aegrotatio Still looking for more storage at Union Station (this problem continues to perplex me; I guess Ivy City is too far or not available).
My understanding is that storage tracks at Ivy City were reduced sometime in the past. Can someone elaborate on how and why and is the land still vacant? WASH US platforms were also shortened sometime in the past and some tracks (1- ?) were lost to Washington Metro.
The proposal has been withdrawn. The latest update is on Facebook. Just one express train to be added on the Fredericksburg line only. The trains will possibly be lengthened. The trains will *not* be terminating at L'Enfant which 45% of survey respondents had objected to. Still looking for more storage at Union Station (this problem continues to perplex me; I guess Ivy City is too far or not available).
http://www.facebook.com/#!/notes/virginia-railway-express/service-changes/436211724147
VRE has clarified the situation at L'Enfant Plaza. They do intend that passengers detraining at L'Enfant would transfer to the next VRE train (within ten minutes):
"Our intent is for riders wishing to go to Union Station to be able to connect with another VRE train, likely on the other line of service, within 10 minutes of detraining at L'Enfant (i.e., Manassas Line riders would take the following train which would be a Fredericksburg Line train). We think that this will be quicker than Metro. As a result, we will not make arrangements with Metro to cover Metro costs. "
Per this link: http://www.vre.org/service/proposed_changes/faq.html
The Paoli line gets reverse commuters who study at Bryn Mawr U and at Villanova and live in Philly.
SEPTA"s Paoli Line used to be a classic two-way case. Trains took high end employees to Philly and the workers who cleaned their homes and provided other services rode the return trip. At the end of the day it reversed. Have not kept track of it lately but expect it's still true.
I have been told by a Metrolink staffer that there are more commuters from LA County (Union Station and Norwalk-Santa Fe Springs) to Irvine in Orange County then the reverse. Irvine has some big employers and LA has its own bedroom communities.
Jack
Very interesting. I thought it was room, not just money.
As for L'Enfant Plaza it is a major destination for VRE passengers (being the home of the DOT among other large agencies). I am certain that through passengers are not expected to ride the trains terminating at L'Enfant.
7. Forgot to mention that WAS US lost several tracks to the WAMATA station construction.
aegrotatio Perhaps MARC can afford deadheading more since they serve both Baltimore and Washington DC and have many reverse-commuters?
Perhaps MARC can afford deadheading more since they serve both Baltimore and Washington DC and have many reverse-commuters?
I really believe it is more complicated that affording reverse moves. A bit of history.
1. The PRR and suscessors eliminated much trackage including parking for REX, mail, pullmans, other cars over the years. Also I have heard that the parking tracks at Ivy City yard were reduced?
2. Station tracks at WAS US lengths on upper level were shortened by 2 - 1/2 car lengths by PRR?
3. Amtrak will not allow any more MARC or VRE trains ( actually it may be total number of cars on their storage tracks). How additional Amtrak rolling stock will be handled is a very important question.
4. VRE is now proposing to park 2 - 10 (?) car trains at the new L'Efant passing/storage siding completed last year. Their proposal is to terminate 1 each Fredricksburg and Mannasas train at L'Efant instead of going on to WAS. Through passengers will have to transfer to next train 5 minutes behind (requires very good time keeping.
5. I sent an emails to both MARC and VRE about building more storage tracks at WAS or Ivy city but the short answer was "no money"
6. If Amtrak has any long range plans to add or sponsor additional track space either internally or some kind of ARRA plan I cannot find any reference.
Metra offers limited reverse-commute service in the Chicago area. Some services are more intense than others; and a number are limited for various reasons.
BNSF runs limited stop reverse-commute zone-expresses for quicker flips for a second peak trip.
Electric District reverse-main running prevents some reverse-peak service; but jobs are not plentiful.
UP service is not systematic; and mostly by opportunities for turn-backs for second trips.
The Sunrise Express on the North Line was the most purposeful addition recently, occasioning a much earlier trip into the City before returning to Waukegan by 6:49 am for another run (not allowing much time to reach employment destinations in Lake County). Reverse peak service is roughly hourly which limits attractiveness. Three North Line trains turn a Winnetka and two at Highland Park.
A relatively recent early train originating in Chicago to McHenry was added on the Northwest Line, departing at 5:55 am and returning to Chicago at 8:52 am. This allowed a third train without another track at McHenry. Again service seems somewhat subordinate to operations; and offers roughly forty minute headways only as far as Barrington in the morning.
It's a little more obvious on the Southwest Service but on Metra, a lot of equipment moves are now in the public timetable as de facto reverse commuter runs. The equipment has to be re-positioned for the next move anyway so why not pick up any passengers that might use the train.
Reverse commute is simply commuting in the opposite direction of peak hour traffic. Thus morning commutes away from the city and evening commutes into the city during peak or rush hour times are reverse commutes. It is more the direction opposite the normal rather than full end to end.
BNSFwatcher My definition of a "Reverse Commuter" (RC) is one who regularly travel from a major transportation hub to a smaller community. NYG to White Plains qualifies, as does White Plains to Wassaic, NYG to STM, and NHV to NLC also. NLC-NHV would be regular commuters. NHV-STM would qualify as a "Short", if the train was going on to NYG or NYP. Lots of possibilities. Someone going from Mount Vernon West, NY to Bronxville, NY (+/- 2 miles), on a daily basis, would meet the requirement, but not the spirit of the definition. Those who live in the old potato fields of Long Island, and commute to LIC are "Shorts", as they don't go into NYP. NHV to HFD: RC. Lots of permutations... Hays
My definition of a "Reverse Commuter" (RC) is one who regularly travel from a major transportation hub to a smaller community. NYG to White Plains qualifies, as does White Plains to Wassaic, NYG to STM, and NHV to NLC also. NLC-NHV would be regular commuters. NHV-STM would qualify as a "Short", if the train was going on to NYG or NYP. Lots of possibilities. Someone going from Mount Vernon West, NY to Bronxville, NY (+/- 2 miles), on a daily basis, would meet the requirement, but not the spirit of the definition. Those who live in the old potato fields of Long Island, and commute to LIC are "Shorts", as they don't go into NYP. NHV to HFD: RC. Lots of permutations...
Hays
That's the point. Metro North Railroad runs Commuter Rail from New Haven to Bridgeport (CT's largest city) to Stamford and into New York City every few minutes during morning rush hour with lots of intermediate stops. The reverse in the evening. Connecticut found that lots of commuters wanted to go east to there jobs, not west into "The City". Remember, Commuter Rail is highly subsidised by the Region and thus much cheeper than Amtrak. ConnDOT is trying to fill that gap.
Don U. TCA 73-5735
ConnDOT started with the "Shore Line East" service between New Haven and New London. It was so successful the service has been expanded to serve Stamford to New London. New stations and re-built stations abound. Capacity ??? Four tracks from New York to Bridgeport, three Bridgeport to New Haven, and two tracks east of New Haven? Re-install the fourth track Bridgeport to New Haven? Re-install the second track New Haven to Hartford and Springfield? A very short sighted Government 35 years ago.
If VRE doesn't own the tracks it runs on, the cost of deadheading a train would be an impractable exercise. Making such a move a regular passenger run could recoup some or all of the movement costs. There is also the extra milage and hours that would be incurred by crews which would make deadhead moves costly.
VRE tracks reverse commuting very closely. They're out of storage space and are loathe to deadhead for reasons that I'm not qualified enough to understand. They see reverse commuting as a partial solution but as of now this kind of service is severely lacking.
MARC on the other hand deadheads regularly and try to use reverse commuting to reduce deadheading.
As for the subway, the Silver Line to Dulles Airport is probably going to be packed in both directions both morning and evening rush.
In recent years I've read where the Peninsula commuter service between San Jose and San Francisco carries a lot of "reverse commuters."
The Kenosha Subdivision between Chicago and Waukegan, Ill. also carries a significant number of reverse commuters out of the Windy City weekdays.
Increasingly true here in London (UK) and the wider South East as well as office space becomes more spread out instead of being concentrated in the centre of London. In a sense this has been going on for longer than we think, but instead of office workers being decentralised it was originally factory workers who moved away from the centre of town to new factories built on green-field sites.
The thing is with the factories is that the workers did still tend to live relatively close to their employment, and their means of transport to work was often the local bus service, as opposed to a train.
Another factor in the NY area especially is staggared work hours. Many people will go in earlier in the morning and go home earlier while others will do the opposite not getting into work until after 9am and working through through the afternoon peak...Then there are industrial and business parks in the suburbs where some companies will give credit to those who take mass transit and even provide a shuttle between station and work. Many things have change in the communting game over the past 10 to 20 years alone.
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