Pittsburgh extensions

[Anonymous]

Do you any of you know what is going on with Pittsburgh's subway extensions? I was there about two years ago when PennDot and the Port Authority were going to dig underneath the Allegheny River to the North Shore.

Anyone hear about this or what's happened since?

 

Ignatius 

[Anonymous]

Its still a go ahead at last check....Not my choice since using the Penn RR bridge would have been a lot cheaper

[highgreen]

Still there, Ignatious? (This thread's a few months old now)... Progress continues here in the 'Burgh on the light rail's "North Shore Connector" expansion project. Right now, the tunnel boring machine is slowly pushing its way southward under the Allegheny River to create the first of two tubes that will join the north shore with the Golden Triangle (downtown). Once there, it will turn around and dig a second, parallel tube. Gateway station, the system's current downtown subway terminus, is being relocated to nearby and will become a line stop, instead, once the connector opens. Excavation work for the new Gateway station was slowed a few months ago by shoring problems, but is moving ahead now. In 2009, the current Gateway will close for good and all trips will temporarlly end at the Wood St. subway station so trackage can be rerouted through the new, relocated Gateway station. Over on the north shore, the line will stay in the subway for a stop near the Pirates' PNC Park, then go elevated for stops near the Steeler's Heintz Field and the Carnegie Science Center (museum), ending at a multi-modal transit center and garage. Projected opening is 2011, I believe.

Another poster mentioned using NS's (ex-PRR) Fort Wayne Bridge across the Allegheny as cheaper than digging a tunnel, but there are problems with that idea. Coming from the South Hills, the system's routes cross the Monongahela River northward via the ex-PRR Panhandle Bridge to enter downtown, but then turn west at Steel Plaza towards Wood St. and Gateway. Using the Ft. Wayne would mean backtracking east again from those two stations to Steel Plaza, then going north to Penn Station and the Allegheny bridge crossing - not efficient. Real estate development at the Ft. Wayne Bridge's north end would make acquiring R-O-W and tunneling expensive, if not impossible. And sharing the Ft. Wayne Bridge with NS? Even with the neceessary, separated R-O-W, that's very doubtful!

[highgreen]

Updating to my 3/11/08 post... The new elevated terminal near Heinz Field and Carnegie Science Center will be called Allegheny, and the sub-surface stop near PNC Park, North Shore. Also, from downtown's Steel Plaza, the current spur line to Penn Station will extend north and operate as a shuttle to the D. L. Lawrence Convention Center. C.C. riders will connect at Steel Plaza with the No. Shore/So. Hills lines, or surface for bus transfer. Steel Plaza already has separate platforms for the through and shuttle lines. (S.P. is my favorite T station, open, airy, with a gallery that looks down on track level. The surroundings are nice, too - a large, grassy plaza and fountain. But the new Gateway looks great on paper. Haven't seen drawings for Allegheny, N. Shore or Convention Center yet.)

The subcontractor says the Connector line will be signaled for *potential* 2-min. headways, 15-min. on the Convention Center Shuttle. Currently, Gateway-So. Hills weekday rush hour service is on 10-min. headways. Also, much-used trippers are added before and after Steelers and Pirates games - so a Connector headway of under 5 min. at times isn't far fetched. Subcontractor Gannett Fleming's Website mentions signaling and interlocking upgrades for the entire project.

As construction moves along, I'll post more. Maybe some of my fellow Pgh T fans will post here, too (?)

[al-in-chgo]

Updating to my 3/11/08 post... The new elevated terminal near Heinz Field and Carnegie Science Center will be called Allegheny, and the sub-surface stop near PNC Park, North Shore. Also, from downtown's Steel Plaza, the current spur line to Penn Station will extend north and operate as a shuttle to the D. L. Lawrence Convention Center. C.C. riders will connect at Steel Plaza with the No. Shore/So. Hills lines, or surface for bus transfer. Steel Plaza already has separate platforms for the through and shuttle lines. (S.P. is my favorite T station, open, airy, with a gallery that looks down on track level. The surroundings are nice, too - a large, grassy plaza and fountain. But the new Gateway looks great on paper. Haven't seen drawings for Allegheny, N. Shore or Convention Center yet.)

The subcontractor says the Connector line will be signaled for *potential* 2-min. headways, 15-min. on the Convention Center Shuttle. Currently, Gateway-So. Hills weekday rush hour service is on 10-min. headways. Also, much-used trippers are added before and after Steelers and Pirates games - so a Connector headway of under 5 min. at times isn't far fetched. Subcontractor Gannett Fleming's Website mentions signaling and interlocking upgrades for the entire project.

As construction moves along, I'll post more. Maybe some of my fellow Pgh T fans will post here, too (?)

 

Only once have I had the pleasure of visiting Pittsburgh; that was over 20 years ago but I sure loved riding the trolley lines.  One man I spoke with said that the PCC cars weren't supposed to be still running (at that time), that the LRT era was running behind time as to subway stations, improved independent ROW, and rolling stock. 

Is there anything left currently in rail-transit Pittsburgh that still retains the quality of a PCC-era traction line?  Older cars, suspended wire instead of cat., stops that are not stations but just stops like bus stops? 

And surely there is some agency I can write to get info about the system as it now is; I just don't know what to call it.  I loved the city and intend to have a great time there regardless, but I can't make it right away. - a.s.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm still here and very interested.  Please keep posting.

 

Ignatius 

[highgreen]

You asked, "Is there anything left currently in rail-transit Pittsburgh that still retains the quality of a PCC-era traction line?" Yes and no. As for "older cars," no. The last of Pgh's 666 PCCs ran in the 1990s. For a few years, they shared track and two-level platforms with the LRVs. I think it's fair to say that today's LRVs owe a lot to the research that led to the PCC. Some of Pgh's former PCCs are on display and still operate at the Pa. Trolley Museum near Washington, Pa. A few pics are at: http://www.pa-trolley.org/TakeRide2.htm .

The LRVs use pans, of course, with an overhead built to handle that. But the line from Washington Jct. to Library, PA uses simple upright poles, rather than the steel masts found elsewhere. Although double-tracked, that line still has an interurban look to it. The only suspended wire stretch, that I know of, is what's left of the abandoned Drake line, near the South Hills Village terminus.

Yes, Pgh still has many low-platform stops, like "bus stops," as you say. The Overbrook line was recently rebuilt with high-level platforms only, and all lines have high-platforms at the busiest stops. But many of the suburban low-level stops have simple bus shelters, and the urban, street-running stops on the 42 Beechview line have traffic safety islands. The LRVs have 3 double-width, high-level doors, and one single-width, low-level door (up front) per side. This lets the operator handle fare collection at low-level stops. These stops may slow operations a bit, but they get their fair share of use.

The operating agency is Port Authority of Allegheny County. You can contact them via their Website, http://www.portauthority.org/paac/default.aspx . Glad you liked Pgh - Hurry back! The 'Burgh is still as friendly as ever.

[daveklepper]

Is the line over the mountain bypassing the South Hills Tunnel still in regular passenger operation?   I remember it as mostly street running with the flavor of a traditional streetcar line.   I thought the name of the line was Arlington.   I assume Beechview is mostly the old Dormont line with extension over the old Castle Shannon shuttle and on, since I think 42 was the number used for the old Dormont line.

[gardendance]

http://www.portauthority.org/PAAC/Schedules/ScheduleFinder/tabid/245/Default.aspx

Route (52) ALLENTOWN GATEWAY CENTER VIA ALLENTOWN
says weekdays only, 4 trips about 45 minutes headway in the morning, 3 trips in the evening. It had been out of service for quite a while, 10 years maybe, but was reinstituted within the last couple of years, and as mentioned before in this thread uses the new equipment, not PCC's.

[daveklepper]

And am I correct that the over-the-mountain portion is typical streetcar street running with its lanes shared by autos?

[highgreen]

You can "virtually operate" the 52 Knoxville over its Warrington and Arlington Ave. street trackage. Go to Google Maps "Street View." For location, enter "E Warrington Ave and Haberman Ave Pittsburgh Pa." That's where the 52's tracks leave the So. Hills Jct. complex to enter Warrington Ave. heading east. With the 52's limited schedule - see Gardendance's post - it operates with only a single LRV. The line rejoins the 42/47 line on the Panhandle Bridge via a curving, single-track ramp from Arlington Ave. It's doubtful the 52 route is a money maker, but keeping it operational means an alternative to the Mt. Washington transit tunnel for the 42 and 47, in case of need. That thought makes us 42 and 47 riders appreciate what a timesaver that 1904 tunnel is. How many trolleys has it seen in 104 years?

Yes, 42 Beechview is the old Dormont line. It uses mostly private r.o.w., but has about a mile of street trackage on Broadway, through Pgh's Beechview neighborhood - safety island stops included. Not much auto traffic there, though. It continues south via Dormont and Mt. Lebanon to Castle Shannon. There, the 42 rejoins the 47 Overbrook. That line was recently rebuilt with limited, high-platform-only stops. Search "Pittsburgh Light Rail" images for a couple of good system maps online. Neither one, though, shows the latest wrinkle, the 42C. That's a rush hour only "short" service between Castle Shannon (with a big park and ride lot) and Gateway, letting the 47 handle Library and So. Hills Village to downtown traffic at peak times.

[daveklepper]

When 42C runs, does the regular 42 skip stops?   Run express?

[highgreen]

With the 42, it's one or the other. The 42C Castle Shannon - Gateway, a "short" route, operates rush hour only with 2-car trains. At that time there are no 42S runs. The 42S South Hills Village - Gateway, a longer route, operates with single cars outside rush hour and weekends. Both 42C and 42S run via Beechview.

The Pittsburgh system has no skip-stop or express service. During rush hour, passengers between Library or South Hills Village and downtown use the 47 via Overbrook, which also uses 2-car rush hour trains, single cars at other times. This rush hour 42C/47S/47L operation allows better equiment utilization. North of Willow (at Overbrook Jct.), the 47 line is limited-stop, high-platform-only. The 42, though, uses both private r-o-w and, through Beechview, in-street running and has a mix of high and low platforms. That makes the 47 a bit quicker than the 42 between Overbrook Jct./Willow and downtown. (It's not the street running that slows down the 42 as much as that one, single-width, low-platform door per side on the LRVs, as opposed to their 3 high doors per side. But Pittsburghers regularly use both kinds of stops, and that means revenue!)

[daveklepper]

I finally "get it" (and could have learned from the website):

Non-rush hours:     42S and 47L operate, 42S slower than 47L

Rush hours:           42C, 47S, and 47L all operate, with 42C slower than either 47.

Question:    During weekday mid-day, going from downtown to South Hills Village, does it pay to pass up a 42S and wait for a 47L to change to a 42S at Castle Shannon or Washington Junction (or does that stop have another name now?)?

If not, if a 47L comes along before a 42S, should one board or wait for the 42S to avoid having to change?

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Unlike Chicago, where the same route number applies to both through runs and short turns, it seems that in Pittsburgh, short turns carry a different number than the through run, be it a suffix or an entirely different number.

[Anonymous]

Looking at my old transit maps it was possible to go all the way to Connelsville PA via

the Penn Railways streetcars system which is about 60 miles out of town..

How long would THAT have taken and how many changes of trolleys woudl that have taken from Downtown? Better yet if somebidy were taking trolleys from Rochester PA could they have gotten there in the same day?

[gardendance]

William D Middleton's book "The Interurban Era" mentioned that at one time there were only 2 gaps to prevent one from making a coast to coast journey via trolley.

[highgreen]

Middays from downtown to So. Hills Village (SHV), a 42S 1-seat ride is quicker than a 47L-42S transfer at, say, Washington Jct. Typically, 42S Gateway to SHV takes 36 min., but it's 45 min. via a 47L-42S transfer. Part of the reason is midday headways: 47L at 30 min., 42S at 15. A transfer also costs $0.50 (+$2.00 base fare), unless using a monthly pass. Middays, the 47L is meant for riders from downtown headed for - or between - Overbrook line stops from So. Hills Jct. to Willow, and between there and Library, Pa. Inbound, the 47L has good midday connections at Wash Jct. for transfers to the 42S in either direction.

To see some interesting US&S/WABCO automated, computerized interlockings that use Train to Wayside Communications (TWC), a transfer at Overbrook Jct/Willow or Wash Jct. is worth it. (The swithces & signals are automated. Pittsburgh's LRVs have operators.)

[Anonymous]

  I would look for more extenions of the Busway System.....The problem with Transit in PA is the way its funded from the State and there is no local gas or sales tax to support it.

This means that the two major citys in Pennsyvania have to beg for funding every year...

and at the same time compete with marginal metro areas like Allentown-Bethaham and Scranton and Erie PA for funding

[al-in-chgo]

William D Middleton's book "The Interurban Era" mentioned that at one time there were only 2 gaps to prevent one from making a coast to coast journey via trolley.

IIRC that's been pretty well disproved, unless the second "gap" is between Freeport, Illinois and California. 

 

[Anonymous]

was a standard gauge (not G) kitbash trolley at last check

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

William D Middleton's book "The Interurban Era" mentioned that at one time there were only 2 gaps to prevent one from making a coast to coast journey via trolley.

I think that the journey was between New York and Chicago, not coast to coast.

[Anonymous]

  Airport.... The ROW is there yiou just need to tear up a bike trail to put tracks down on the Mon Trail.