I am familiar with the Ballad Of Big John...
Steve
If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!
Ballad of Big Bad John:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnnHprUGKF0
One of our Basset Hounds, Tillie, used to play Dogzilla with the floor layout under the Christmas tree, but only to the extent of slinging her 80 pound butt on the main lines and going to sleep!
Firelock76 I don't know if the 'Dude models but I sure like the way this thing's going!
I don't know if the 'Dude models but I sure like the way this thing's going!
I have a decent collection of HO-scale equipment and track, but have never gotten around to building a proper layout. On occasion I will set the stuff up on the floor, but for some reason model trains attract Catzilla, so I can't leave it.
I do enjoy the 1:1 scale equipment we work on at the Alberta Railway Museum, my volunteering now takes up most of the time I could otherwise spend modelling.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
NWP, in case you haven't gathered it yet, with the SD-70 Dude you're working with a real railroader. I don't know if the 'Dude models but I sure like the way this thing's going!
I just had a thought. If "Big Bad John" doesn't work out it could make a great centerpiece for a gag scene on the layout, say the interior of the erecting shop where "John" has been put together, but he's too big to get through the doors! Kind of like a guy who builds a boat in the backyard but can't get it out past the house!
From here I think I'll just sit back and watch! Have fun boys!
NWP SWP Or reuse the D trucks from the Bipolar and modify the 1b trucks to just B trucks...
Or reuse the D trucks from the Bipolar and modify the 1b trucks to just B trucks...
That too.
And remember, nothing is set in stone here, after all it is your railroad and your locomotive. I am just raising some points that would most likely come up in a real-world setting. Dream away!
But it would be wise to use a "B" truck with a wider space between axles for greater stability, as opposed to simply chopping off the lead axle from the Bi-Polar "1B" truck. Note the difference between axle spacings on this Great Northern W-1 (B-D-D-B), for precisely that reason:
There is no reason the quill drivers have to be larger than diesel wheelsets, but in most real-world applications they were. Probably a result of locomotive designers thinking with a steam mindset. Your railroad could have purchased smaller quill drive equipment but it would likely require some custom parts and engineering, and drive up the project cost for no real benefit.
I saw on the other thread that your locomotives are rebuilt Milwaukee Bi-Polars. Their traction motors were mounted directly on the axles, so there would be no pre-existing quill drive to re-use.
As was also noted in the other thread bipolar motors are inefficient, and a diesel locomotive with them would be inefficient and seem quite underpowered, especially compared to EMDs, ALCOs, FMs etc in the 1950s.
The most cost-effective real-world propulsion solution would be some off-the-shelf geared traction motors. EMD, GE and Westinghouse are the top 3 choices (ALCO used GE motors, FM and Baldwin used Westinghouse). GE would be the logical choice, as they originally built the MILW Bi-Polars and would most likely be able to produce equipment that would fit the running gear.
Two large prime movers or four smaller ones should fit nicely inside the full-length boxcab sketch, and if your railroad had previously operated large, articulated steam power clearances are not a concern, as long as the "new" diesels confrom to the same clearance limitations. With that there is no need to articulate the carbody.
I am also drawing a blank on "D" truck designs of the 1950s, but it would be wise (and cost-effective) to re-use the "1B" lead trucks from the Bi-Polars, and then obtain additional "B" trucks from another source.
Could the quill drivers be smaller?
If not how bout the Bipolar drive?
What about two Alco V16s or four V8s?
Are there any trucks that are of the same design from the 50s in B and D types?
I would prefer not to articulate the car body...
A few more thoughts:
The first body style in your sketch will most likely limit you to one large prime mover due to the body's smaller size (looks like you have dual cabs?).
For sketches 2 and 3 it would be wise to articulate the carbody, or it will stick out excessively when going around curves, just like the boiler on a Challenger or Big Boy, and may hit things beside the track it is on (UP 3985 had a bad experience with some coal cars when it was first restored). For this point I am assuming that the span bolster attaches to the frame at its centre, between the middle two axles of the "D" truck.
Sketches 2 and 3 should easily accomodate more than one prime mover, you could probably fit 4 ALCO 6-251 or 539 engines in the third one, which would produce around 4000 HP.
As has been mentioned already in the other thread FM engines are quite tall, and would not be a good choice if you wish to have a PRR-style quill drive, with its relatively tall, spoked wheels.
If you want a single prime mover I would suggest a 18-cylinder ALCO 251, for its sheer power and outlandishness, but if you are going for mulitple diesel engines I would suggest smaller ALCOs, perhaps several 6-cylinder 539s which your railroad has salvaged from older switchers.
Here's a few pictures to help visualize...
1 the trucks I'd like to use... I'm using these because I cannot find both B and D trucks that are the same in design. (If you know of a 1940s/50s era trucks that are the same design just ones B trucks and the others D trucks please post it)
2 a drawing of the body styles I'm trying to pick.
3 a paper mock up of the unit not to scale.
I agree with Firelock about using EMD 567 recordings, one simply cannot beat the supercharged 2-stroke for sound. Your unit also sounds big enough for more than one prime mover.
Which gave me an idea for a Franken-locomotive of my own, a EMD-powered Centipede:
In my mind's eye I see it riding on four (4) Blomberg A1A trucks (2 connected by a span bolster at each end) and hear seven (7) V6 567 engines screaming away, one of which is for Head-End Power, giving the unit 3600 HP for traction.
The story behind this unit is that the railroad had already purchased Baldwin Centipedes, but quickly found them to be unreliable. They derailed on curves and switches due to their long, rigid wheelbase and the Baldwin diesels broke down frequently. Despite this, the railroad wanted high-horsepower multi-engined passenger locomotives, as they had long, remote runs and a union contract which required a Engineer and Fireman in each locomotive, even on diesels MU'd together.
The solution was to rebuild their Centipedes from the ground up, with new running gear, engines and electrical systems. The multi-engine design let them assign a single locomotive per train (sidestepping the crew issue) while still having redundancy in case of a engine failure. EMD trucks and engines were chosen due to their reliability.
Oh, and the units were also rebuilt with Sharknose cabs .
[Disclaimer: I have no idea if one could actually cram seven V6 567's into a Centipede, but the number sounded cool!]
EDIT: having gone over to the MR forum and read your thread there I see you are pretty far along in the design, but hope this helps. Crew-size regulations were a real-life reason for some outlandish and unconventional locomotive arrangements.
Just make sure all your tunnels are reinforced before Big Bad John goes in.
You would not want to have a tunnel collapse on Big Bad John.
Oddly, I now have a craving for a Jimmy Dean breakfast sandwich.
I'm here to get ideas for the "prototype" for my creation, why was it built, the PMs, ect... NOT to build a model...
He started a thread in MR forum two weeks go: http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/266905.aspx?page=1Regards, Volker
NWP SWP I'm mostly concerned about the sound of the thing not so much the details under the hood... my idea is a B-D-B-B-D-B wheel arrangement with a NYC p motor style body made from old alco PBs oh and two Trainmaster style deck boxes that'll act as span bolsters for each B-D-B set of trucks...
I'm mostly concerned about the sound of the thing not so much the details under the hood... my idea is a B-D-B-B-D-B wheel arrangement with a NYC p motor style body made from old alco PBs oh and two Trainmaster style deck boxes that'll act as span bolsters for each B-D-B set of trucks...
Sound? Uh, you're on your own there, but for what it's worth I added a Bachmann diesel sound package to my silent Williams O gauge FM Trainmaster. I used the EMD 567 engine sound unit. Hey, they didn't have an FM OP engine unit and I had to go with something. Hey I like it, it sounds diesel-ly enough.
Oh, and by the way, welcome aboard!
Wrong Forum...go to Model Railroader
I don't know, you can't see the prime movers "under the hood" anyway, so I was thinking more in the line of external appearances.
Hey, how about an ALCO PA nose and cab on a Dash-9 body over a Baldwin "Centepede" frame and running gear? You can say it came out of "Rocco's Custom Locomotive and Chop Shop!"
Who knows? You might get people interested in what "Rocco" comes up with next!
A lot of the folks on the MR Forum tend to be "It's prototypical or it's nothing!" rivet counters, but there are some like "Broadway Lion" who have a good sense of the outlandish and ridiculous.
You may want to have a look at the "Classic Toy Trains" Forum and ask there. Now WE on the CTT Forum know how to play with trains! Prototypical operations come secondary to FUN!
True, but I'd still like to explain the types of Prime movers are in it and how many there are... I've started a thread on the MR forum already but I'm trying to get other opinions...
NWP, it strikes me you'd be better off asking on the "Model Railroader" Forum, but let me say this. It's your model on your HO layout, so in the end you only have to please yourself. If you want to let your imagination run wild go for it!
If the locomotive looks strange or "cartooney" come up with any kind of blather you want to explain it. "Those aren't just dynamic braking grids, they're industrial strength toasters!" "Ever hear of Geeps with top mounted air reservoirs referred to as 'torpedo boats'? Guess what, those are real torpedoes!"
Get the picture?
I'm trying to build an HO scale model of a freelanced locomotive I have dreamed up, anyway I am trying to create a "prototype" explanation for the unit and I thought I'd stop in here to gets some other opinions...
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