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SD70ACe-T4 - does EMD actually have a T4 locomotive?

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Posted by M636C on Tuesday, October 27, 2015 11:57 PM
beaulieu wrote the following post an hour ago:

EMD had two test mules, one was converted from the SD89MAC prototype and the other from one of the two SD90MAC-H prototypes. One was set up to test the 20-cyl. C175 diesel for the F125 passenger locomotive, will the other mule tested the 1010J engine. 

Indeed there were at least two test units...

But the one illustrated in October with its full width body and distinctive radiator arrangement could only be testing the C175 and not the 1010....  There would be no reason to test a 1010 with that radiator layout, particularly since the radiators on 1501 look a lot like those that would have come with an SD 90 as a test unit. Just because you can't see the engine, doesn't mean that you don't know what it is...

But to return to the question that started this part of the thread. Presumably EMD R&D designed the test layout for the 20-C175 as well as that for the 1010 and actually carried out the tests, with suitable support from CAT R&D. EMD would have a better idea of what they want the CAT C175 to do in a locomotive than CAT who build a standard engine to be used in a variety of applications.

I think the photo caption in Trains October implied that the photo showed a 1010 which was odd because they had previously illustrated a 1010 on test in another test unit in an earlier magazine and they should have realised that that illustration did not show a 1010 on test.

But if EMD R&D are testing a standard CAT engine in a railroad application, as well as testing an engine derived from an EMD in house design with CAT assistance, there is probably plenty for them to do for both engine designs.

I'd imagine GE diesel engine R&D have been pretty busy with the "new GEVO" that isn't much like the "old GEVO" for the last couple of years and they might be busy for some time to come. It seems to me that GE's new engine is just as risky as EMD's new engine, even if GE are a year ahead.

GE's new locomotive looks a lot like their previous unit, but it is different. Not fitting through coal car dumpers is just one of the problems.

I'd say EMD R&D will have to work hard to ensure the T4 units run as intended, and they might be able to learn from GE who are further down the track, but not yet perhaps at the finish line...

M636C

 
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Posted by Entropy on Friday, October 30, 2015 7:07 AM

M636C
beaulieu wrote the following post an hour ago:

EMD had two test mules, one was converted from the SD89MAC prototype and the other from one of the two SD90MAC-H prototypes. One was set up to test the 20-cyl. C175 diesel for the F125 passenger locomotive, will the other mule tested the 1010J engine. 

Indeed there were at least two test units...

But the one illustrated in October with its full width body and distinctive radiator arrangement could only be testing the C175 and not the 1010....  There would be no reason to test a 1010 with that radiator layout, particularly since the radiators on 1501 look a lot like those that would have come with an SD 90 as a test unit. Just because you can't see the engine, doesn't mean that you don't know what it is...

M636C

Saw this on another site.

EMDX #92 is the former SD89MAC test unit and is fitted with the Caterpiller C175-20 prime mover for test purposes. This unit is the mechanical testbed for the F125 "Spirit" passenger service locomotive and is the reason why it has the full width carbody. 

EMDX #91 one of the former SD90MAC-H II test units and is the unit modified with the 12-1010J prime mover for test purposes. This is the mechanical testbed for the Tier 4 replacement of the previous SD70ACe. 


Bryan Jones
Brooks, KY
Bryan's Train Photos

 

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Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Sunday, November 1, 2015 8:46 AM
 

.

 

 
 
Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!
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Posted by NorthWest on Sunday, November 1, 2015 10:42 PM

Very interesting. DOC is much less troublesome to maintain that DPF (EMD's 'Tier 3.5' SD59MX had DPF and DOC IIRC. I wonder if some of the test data in the brochure came from this unit?). The brochure is dated 2012, so this product has been around for a while. I haven't heard of anyone using it though. It seems to be designed to have need least amount of modifications possible.

I imagine that EMD will be using the same unit to preserve their famed backwards compatability.

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Posted by Entropy on Monday, November 2, 2015 8:02 AM

NorthWest

I imagine that EMD will be using the same unit to preserve their famed backwards compatability.

 

 
You're implying that 710 engine DOC will be retained on Tier 4? If so, negative. 
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Posted by nfotis on Wednesday, November 25, 2015 10:31 AM

According to a FB poster, there are already multiple copies of the new locomotive.

The first are already going to Pueblo, CO for testing:

https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/12299141_10205085318639839_5190447289790209676_n.jpg?oh=c69ac49960aefbc4a9bd9f8e7bb0491e&oe=56DFD9CF

 

N.F.

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Posted by Wizlish on Thursday, November 26, 2015 7:06 PM

Entropy
You're implying that 710 engine DOC will be retained on Tier 4? If so, negative.

I concur.  It was my understanding that DOC added to rather than reduced NOx emissions.  Since NOx was the 'sticking point' for EMD tier 4 final compliance, why would an oxidation catalyst become a requirement now?

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Posted by noemdfan on Saturday, November 28, 2015 7:44 PM

The "GE" HDL Series Prime Mover was built by Deutz

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Posted by M636C on Tuesday, December 1, 2015 6:11 AM

noemdfan

The "GE" HDL Series Prime Mover was built by Deutz

 
My understanding was that the design was by Deutz but that GE were to build all the vee engines and Deutz would build all the in line engines.
 
All of the HDLs in USA production locomotives were built by GE. Deutz may have built some early prototypes used by GE, but most of the Deutz Model 632 vee engines were built after Deutz and GE dissolved the partnership.
 
M636C
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Posted by JayPotter on Tuesday, December 1, 2015 8:17 AM

The 6-15-93 HDL agreement was between GE and Moteren-Werke Mannheim AG, a subsidiary of Deutz AG.  Moteren-Werke was to design the engine; and GE was to manufacture it.  Deutz's direct involvement was to guarantee the performance of Moteren-Werke.

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Posted by Lyon_Wonder on Tuesday, December 1, 2015 5:39 PM

There's a rumor that UP's going to order 66 SD70ACe-T4s, even though testing of demostrators has just started.

Don't know if it's true or not.

http://www.locophotos.com/Read.php?ThreadID=32892

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Posted by beaulieu on Wednesday, December 2, 2015 12:31 PM

It has been reported on another forum that EMD SD70ACe-T4 demos 1501 and 1504 are on the move from Muncie to LaGrange, IL for testing. EMDX 1501 is the locomotive displayed at Railway Interchange in Minneapolis and is in the new EMD demo paint scheme. EMDX 1504 is the first of two locomotives intended for demonstration and testing on the Union Pacific and is in the Union Pacific paint scheme, but with EMD lettering. 

I have also heard that UP has ordered 66 SD70ACe-T4 locomotives for delivery in the second half of 2016.

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, December 2, 2015 3:28 PM

beaulieu

It has been reported on another forum that EMD SD70ACe-T4 demos 1501 and 1504 are on the move from Muncie to LaGrange, IL for testing. EMDX 1501 is the locomotive displayed at Railway Interchange in Minneapolis and is in the new EMD demo paint scheme. EMDX 1504 is the first of two locomotives intended for demonstration and testing on the Union Pacific and is in the Union Pacific paint scheme, but with EMD lettering. 

I have also heard that UP has ordered 66 SD70ACe-T4 locomotives for delivery in the second half of 2016.

Class 1's, at this point in time, will provide 'token' orders to EMD, if for no other reason than to keep EMD in business and not give GE a monopoly.  Once the orders are received on property, the real world testing will begin, comparing the overall economics of each brand.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by YoHo1975 on Thursday, December 3, 2015 2:50 PM
Woo Hoo, can't wait for testing up on Donner. Maybe they painted em in UP colors so Roseville would know to fuel them up unlike the GE units that they missed. :)

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