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Norfolk Southern is going to start a rebuilding program for their Dash 8's and Dash 9's

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Posted by D.Carleton on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 10:58 PM

Leo_Ames
D.Carleton
When all is said and done the 8505 is still a 27 year old locomotive at a fully depreciated value. Even with the rebuild the cost of repair may exceed the book value.

 

That is a very good question. Time was when a capital rebuild occurred the value stayed the same as a benefit to the railroad. Great for property taxes. Not so great for the insurance claim. Those rules have changed but I'm not sure where the break point is.

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Posted by NorthWest on Sunday, July 24, 2016 4:51 PM

Strangely enough it is the back of the frame that is bent.

http://www.railpictures.net/photo/583617/

http://www.railpictures.net/photo/583741/

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Posted by Leo_Ames on Monday, July 25, 2016 9:55 AM

While I'm in no situation to make a call on if it's worthwhile or not, even that side of the cab looks pretty good to my untrained eye. 

I wonder if it's been "tweaked" somehow due to the damage to the frame that would make it undesirable to save.

Or even if the potential savings is enough to justify the expense of removing it intact and trucking it away to Roanoke or Altoona, particularly given what went on with the frame that might make them leery of attempting it when it could still be a write-off in the end. 

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Posted by Leo_Ames on Thursday, August 11, 2016 3:26 PM

Despite the ongoing purge of their B40-8 and C40-8 fleets, it sounds like CSX might be the next one to try to prolong the life of their Dash 8 fleet. Ten C40-8W's are slated for rebuilding by GE according to this forum post (A source I consider as reliable for CSX motive power news as NSDash9 or AltoonaWorks for NS news). 

http://railroadfan.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=27191&start=640#p361206

Much like Norfolk Southern's DC-to-AC conversion program, having GE involved should make them good performers ready for another 15-20 years of service. As evidenced by the Dash 8.5's, attempting this in-house and getting it right isn't an easy proposition, so involvement by the original builder strikes me as important here. 

While further C40-8 rebuilds seem out of the question as Norfolk Southern disposes of their fleet, I wonder if we'll see Norfolk Southern attempt this again with their C40-8W's.

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Posted by Leo_Ames on Thursday, August 18, 2016 7:27 PM

Altoona has outshopped an AC44C6M in another special paint scheme, the #4004. This time she has a black nose and cab, as shown in the newswire.

I could've swore that I read that at least the first couple from Juniata would get a tuscan red nose/cab? 

Leo_Ames

Despite the ongoing purge of their B40-8 and C40-8 fleets, it sounds like CSX might be the next one to try to prolong the life of their Dash 8 fleet. Ten C40-8W's are slated for rebuilding by GE.

And since this post, all B40-8's/B20-8's and all C40-8's have now been retired by CSX. That not only means no more standard cab GE's, but that the last 4 axle GE's, a fixture on the roster since day 1 with hundreds of U-Boats and Dash 7's, are extinct on CSX. 

Only C40-8W's and the interim C44-8W model remain for Dash 8's on the CSX roster now.

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Posted by kgbw49 on Thursday, August 18, 2016 8:36 PM

Horse power for The Thoroughbred. That is a great paint job!

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Posted by Leo_Ames on Friday, September 2, 2016 1:09 AM

A 3rd special paintscheme.

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Posted by NorthWest on Friday, September 2, 2016 11:04 AM

Juniata = blue stripe.

Roanoke = red stripe.

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Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Friday, September 2, 2016 12:52 PM

My hubby said it looks like when it came time to do the striping on those 2 engines they grabbed whatever paint they had leftover from all those Heritage units.  That red almost looks like the red of the N&W and the blue is almost a match for Conrail he swears. 

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Posted by kgbw49 on Saturday, September 3, 2016 11:29 AM

This is the best of the three so far and should become the NS standard. Just one vote.

The Warbonnet is gone, but the Manebonnet is a worthy emulator.

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Posted by caldreamer on Saturday, September 3, 2016 12:04 PM

Make that TWO votes.  They look great.

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Posted by D.Carleton on Saturday, September 3, 2016 8:52 PM

NorthWest

Juniata = blue stripe.

Roanoke = red stripe.

Really the Juniata rebuild should be Brunswick Green but that would indistiguishable from the black and nevermind the whole "Red Team" vs. "Green Team" thing. Didn't work out too well last time.

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Posted by Leo_Ames on Tuesday, October 4, 2016 1:35 AM

Interesting post for some related CSX news, involving what appears to be a similar program to Norfolk Southern's AC44C6M's, except for C40-8W's. 

http://railroadfan.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=364604#p364604

I wonder if anyone else will follow their lead.

GE has also bought the entire CSX fleet of C40-8's, so perhaps we'll see them take a crack at another large-scale rebuilding program like the Super 7 program of a few decades ago.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, October 4, 2016 7:03 AM

Before anybody gets their hopes too high, it should be noted that the subsequent NS AC rebuilds are in ordinary black and white.

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Posted by LensCapOn on Wednesday, October 5, 2016 12:14 PM

Leo_Ames

GE has also bought the entire CSX fleet of C40-8's, so perhaps we'll see them take a crack at another large-scale rebuilding program like the Super 7 program of a few decades ago.

 

Super 8?

 

Easy 8?

 

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Posted by D.Carleton on Wednesday, October 5, 2016 8:53 PM

Leo_Ames

Interesting post for some related CSX news, involving what appears to be a similar program to Norfolk Southern's AC44C6M's, except for C40-8W's. 

http://railroadfan.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=364604#p364604

I wonder if anyone else will follow their lead.

GE has also bought the entire CSX fleet of C40-8's, so perhaps we'll see them take a crack at another large-scale rebuilding program like the Super 7 program of a few decades ago.

Interesting. I'll believe it when I see it. If so, perhaps this is why NS curtailed their 8.5 program. Or perhaps it was the 8.5 program that prompted GE to give the Dash 8 another look.

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Posted by Lyon_Wonder on Wednesday, October 5, 2016 11:26 PM

Rebuilding Dash 8s with AC traction sounds more ambitious than NS's Dash 8.5, even though I don't think the dash 8 series was ever originally meant to incorporate AC, whereas the DC traction and AC traction Dash 9s were introduced at about the same time in the mid-1990s and shared a common frame.

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Posted by D.Carleton on Thursday, October 6, 2016 6:37 PM

Lyon_Wonder

Rebuilding Dash 8s with AC traction sounds more ambitious than NS's Dash 8.5, even though I don't think the dash 8 series was ever originally meant to incorporate AC, whereas the DC traction and AC traction Dash 9s were introduced at about the same time in the mid-1990s and shared a common frame.

And this is why I don't buy this story for a dollar. A refurbished 4K HP locomotive with EFI, updated electronics and (maybe) a new cab sounds like a winner. Adding inverters and AC traction seems like a stretch.

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Posted by BOB WITHORN on Tuesday, October 11, 2016 9:13 AM
Perhaps it's just GE figuring out that new loco sales are not going to keep the doors open and they are able to reman. their older stuff and offer it as such to the class 1s there by side stepping the EPA tier4 requirements. So maybe it is "Super 8's".
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Posted by NorthWest on Saturday, December 31, 2016 4:42 PM

Pan Am has picked up 20 GECX ex-CSX Dash 8-40Cs of which two began life as Conrail units.

Here are 14 of them:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=oa.1492152630802655&type=1

 

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Posted by D.Carleton on Sunday, January 1, 2017 11:20 AM

NorthWest

Pan Am has picked up 20 GECX ex-CSX Dash 8-40Cs of which two began life as Conrail units.

Here are 14 of them:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=oa.1492152630802655&type=1

Not even 24 hours into the new year and things get interesting.

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Posted by RME on Sunday, January 1, 2017 2:11 PM

D.Carleton
Not even 24 hours into the new year and things get interesting.

I think this move was started almost a week ago, and is timed so that the locomotives are 'received' on PAR property as close to 2017 as possible while still being transferred in 2016.

No real surprise there!

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Posted by NorthWest on Sunday, January 1, 2017 10:33 PM

Well, it has been discussed on more Pan Am-focused forums for nearly three weeks now, but I neglected to transfer the news here thinking that Leo would as he is usually the source of similar information. Here's the Railroad.net discussion:

http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=104653&start=405

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Posted by YoHo1975 on Sunday, January 1, 2017 10:39 PM
Loconotes was skeptical, because there was no confirmation in Ulmer at the time or whatever it's called.
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Posted by Leo_Ames on Monday, January 2, 2017 3:57 AM

Sounds like CSX AC44C6M #7807 is now complete. This is one of the C40-8W's that CSX sent to GE for rebuilding, including an upgrade to AC propulsion. 

So CSX has joined the Dash 8 rebuild party that Norfolk Southern was one of the pioneers of (Albeit somewhat unsuccessfully it would appear). 

And some speculate that Pan Am might now be interested in some B40-8's over at Railroad.net. I would think though that former NS B32-8's would be a better fit for them and local operations. They're contemporaries of many of these C40-8's that they just got and Norfolk Southern obviously isn't planning to run one again.

At 3,200 horsepower and 12 cylinders, they're better suited for locals not to mention cheaper to operate and maintain. And with the close relationship between Pan Am and NS and with scrap being their only future, I imagine the price would be right for the best candidates in their fleet. 

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, January 3, 2017 6:20 PM

Find it interesting that class 1s are slowly converting to AC traction motors.  If scheduling is done correctly then they would not need to buy another DC traction motor.  Part of that scheduling might be sales to other RRs mainly Class 2s?.  This could put all DC motor rebuilding companys out of business. 

Since these rebuilding do not require updated emissions requirements then the fuel saved " may " make them equal to the HP hours of new tier 4 locos ? 

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Posted by Leo_Ames on Thursday, January 5, 2017 12:42 AM

NSDash9 just posted some news that will be of interest to readers of this thread. C44-9W #8946 has been retired and will be rebuilt in Roanoke as the first AC44C6CF, utilizing some different components than the AC44C6M's. 

Here's a link to the post in question with additional details.

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Posted by carnej1 on Thursday, January 5, 2017 11:22 AM

blue streak 1

Find it interesting that class 1s are slowly converting to AC traction motors.  If scheduling is done correctly then they would not need to buy another DC traction motor.  Part of that scheduling might be sales to other RRs mainly Class 2s?.  This could put all DC motor rebuilding companys out of business. 

Since these rebuilding do not require updated emissions requirements then the fuel saved " may " make them equal to the HP hours of new tier 4 locos ? 

 

 Except that the Class 1's use older or rebuilt/remanufactured 4 axle units,mostly EMD, which are DC motored for secondary service/switching. Rebuilding these with AC traction systems would not be economical and there really isn't a need.  And the Class 2's use a much higher proportion of 4 axle locomotives. So the DC motor rebuilders are going to be around for a long time to come,but will have declining market share..

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Posted by Leo_Ames on Tuesday, January 17, 2017 7:19 AM

D.Carleton
Leo_Ames
Interesting post for some related CSX news, involving what appears to be a similar program to Norfolk Southern's AC44C6M's, except for C40-8W's.
 

Interesting. I'll believe it when I see it. If so, perhaps this is why NS curtailed their 8.5 program. Or perhaps it was the 8.5 program that prompted GE to give the Dash 8 another look.

Since you were skeptical, this should put a smile on your face. :)

What was originally rumored to be a DC to AC conversion of a test batch of C40-8Ws is actually just a DC refurb

http://railroadfan.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=370984#p370984

https://www.instagram.com/p/BPS7GHDhKS_/

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Posted by NareBNSF on Tuesday, January 17, 2017 4:14 PM

Is that the dash 8.5 project? All those ex-conrail units right?

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