General Electric 1977 Series, and a Teachable Moment.

[NorthWest]

That is really too bad. Such good lookers! Do you know the heritage of these units?

[McKey]

Yes I did, this was in 2011, in the 2013 "the death line" situation for C30-7is had worsened they being scavenged for spare parts, even windows and long hood panels. They are behind a high wall in Tapa, Estonia now, or what is left of them. 

A lot more (with even more pics to follow) can be found here:

http://www.4rail.net/reference_estonia_gallery1.php#evr_c307i

I think from now on the units will start to disappear and be torched, so I'm in a hurry to catalog and picture as many of them as I can.

[NorthWest]

The bump between the "4" and the "E" is what I was referring to as the "bump" in the hood.

I'm not sure that is why they retired the C30-7is, as they have the same oil cooler location as the C36-7is.

Although, the C36-7is are sort of -7/-8 hybrids, with some differing systems. But the oil cooler "bump" is still visible in the -8 series.

McKey, did you take the bottom picture?

[McKey]

The blogspot article look great, thank you!

This might finally solve the mystery why the Eeesti Raudtee (Estonian Railways, owned once by Eddy Burkhart, now back to EU member state of Estonia) retired the C30-7is while keeping so many C36-7is running!

NorthWest

I think the reason for the focus on the oil cooler and radiator is that they were the big exterior changes from the Universal series*.  (The "bump" in the hood is for the oil cooler modification, for those who don't know. Having it freeze is a big issue, enough that the Santa Fe included modifying it in its SF30C program).

Here is the Wisconsin Central inspired color scheme on "C7 boats":

[NorthWest]

Without people like you, we would not be having these discussions. So, thank you very much.

I think it is sensible to record as much information as possible for future generations.

[Firelock76]

NorthWest

Thank you for your service, gentlemen.

Aw shucks, I'm blushing!

[BigJim]

Will Davis

Thanks, North West.

 Big Jim, I was not. I was trained in nuclear engineering and power plant operation in the United States Navy in the 1980's, which is equipment considerably more sophisticated and rugged than that used in locomotives. That allows me to understand what it is that I'm reading. That coupled with a knowledge of how to get the facts is what drives this post.

 The attempt here is to elevate the discussion - is that why you ask. Big Jim?

My purpose in writing this article (and in reviving the long-dormant blog on which it's posted) is both to correct the written "history" of this line, and to try to get railfans to think more mechanically...

Of that, you have done a very nice "inside" job. Indeed the mechanical/electrical side of history needs to be correctly documented. You have listed many improvements under the car body, however, you have not discussed why GE did not improve the outside of the locomotive to make it safer and more user friendly. Note straight up and down steps, narrow running boards that could only be navigated sideways and brushing up against dirty greasy body panels and exposed ends of threaded bolts just waiting to rip clothing and cause injury.

...and be more curious about reality and history as it really did occur.

You are well on the way to one side of the story. Don't forget the other side that had to suffer with these locos until a true improvement came along with the Dash 9. What gets me is that it took so long before GE began to really get things right.

[NorthWest]

Thank you for your service, gentlemen.

[Firelock76]

You're welcome Mr. Davis, and "fair winds and following seas" to you!

Besides, us old Navy - Marine Team guys have to look out for one another, don't we?

[Will Davis]

Thanks so much, Firelock76- and thanks for your service. Being a Marine (which must always be capitalized) is something few can ever achieve. Semper Fi!

-Will Davis

[Firelock76]

Just for what it's worth, and so everyone knows, when I was in the Marines the word was the toughest school in the US armed forces was the US Navy's nuclear propulsion school.  Tougher than flight school, tougher than sub school, or anything else for that matter.  So, we can give Mr. Davis credit for being thorough and detail oriented.

Great article!

[Will Davis]

Also -- I'll look around and see if I have anything more on GE 750.  I have a lot of old stuff, but I'm not too sure if there's anything specific to it.  Specific to very early C-B engines such as used in it, yes, I think so, but I'll have to look.

-Will Davis

[Will Davis]

Thanks, North West.

 

 Big Jim, I was not. I was trained in nuclear engineering and power plant operation in the United States Navy in the 1980's, which is equipment considerably more sophisticated and rugged than that used in locomotives. That allows me to understand what it is that I'm reading. That coupled with a knowledge of how to get the facts is what drives this post.

 The attempt here is to elevate the discussion - is that why you ask. Big Jim?

[BigJim]

Will,
Between patting yourself on the back, were you ever in T&E service and had to work with these locomotives? 

[NorthWest]

Thank you very much. That was a great article!

I think the reason for the focus on the oil cooler and radiator is that they were the big exterior changes from the Universal series*.  (The "bump" in the hood is for the oil cooler modification, for those who don't know. Having it freeze is a big issue, enough that the Santa Fe included modifying it in its SF30C program).

*Another was the FB-2 trucks, but they were also used on some late U-series locomotives(?).

The other thing I see, (besides "Imagineering" of things) is that when something is copied from one site to another, it is garbled. It is then copied again, and further altered, until it is no longer factual. We need to learn from this!

Will, you and your brother's blog is great. Do you have more info on GE 750?

Thanks again.

[Will Davis]

A week or two ago, I looked around the internet while trying to find a particular fact about a GE "dash 7" series locomotive.  I was kind of appalled by what I found -- really, it was the same tired old information from website to website - lots of them -all focusing on "radiator wings" and some unspecified miscellaneous improvements.  One horrific quote I find through Google Books describes the C30-7 as "the U30C in drag."   It lists no real changes from the U series to the 1977 or New Series Locomotives.  I'm not going to link any of the articles I found because I strongly encourage people to try to write their own articles... get out there, write, and be creative!  There's no point in trying to embarrass anyone and I'm not here to do that.  But I am here to make a point about finding almost identical content at site after site.

So we have a teachable moment here.  Here is the lesson in a tiny nutshell:  If you're writing an article for the internet, and the only thing you use to research that article is the internet, then you probably haven't really ADDED anything to the internet. 

Rather than just be that guy who points up a problem and then expects someone else to fix it... I already fixed it.  Look here.

General Electric's 1977 Series Locomotives.

Hopefully this will do two things, as I've stated at the end of the article -- first, get the right information out about this rather important product line change, and second get people in the railfan community to stop just looking at each other's sites and books and actually get into the manufacturer's or railroad's materials. You'll notice the sources listed at the end of the article.  None of these is on the internet; they're all in my hands.  Hopefully the article will be well received and prove my point... and hopefully my point in going through this discussion here will be well received and spur folks who have and who study such materials to begin to get more such things out there on the net... so that the internet is better and not worse than what's in print, buried in obscure collections the world over. 

Finally - I was clearly so bothered by this that I resurrected our locomotive blog for a new post, which has been dormant for a long time.  Let's hope my point is well taken!

-Will Davis