I am curious about who's product is better, apples to apples, is the ES44AC better than the SD70ACe?
I have heard that the controls on a SD70ACe are simpler, and that the SD70ACe's have greater tractive effort. But the ES44AC is cheaper.
I have no clue if any of this is true, so I would like to here from all of you.
Thanks!
I've got to go with the GE product. The ES44DC model is my preferred modern unit to run. Rides nice, responds reasonably quickly to throttle, quiet; no head busting AC whine when you've got the window open. The control stand is beside you, where it belongs, though not close enough to effectively lean out the window to take a hand signal and still work the independent brake.
The SD70s I've run ride very hard. A lot of vertical bounce. They load funny. You open the throttle and get a limited response, tempting you to grab some more, when suddenly your original request arrives in mass! Don't dare release the independent to pull on an ascending grade before the unit is loading enough for forward movement. If you start to drift backwards, it thinks you want dynamic brake! I don't want dynamic brake. I want to pull this train up hill! And they are louder.
The old EMDs were great. GP40's were wonderful! The old GEs, ugh!
My vote goes to the SD40-2; best diesel ever made.
I would have to vote for the 40's also. They were great.
for older locomotives, the sd40 is tops, try laying rail, start out at a steady creep to 3-5 mph and back to a stop to hitch onto the next rail, while holding onto 28-30 loaded rail cars with a 10psi brake set, try that with a next generation locomotive, it won't be fun, sd40 will do what you want, when you want it done period, on the newer stuff, ge's get better every year, love them, sd70's the only good thing about them is the wheel slip controls, other than that they have a bad ride, all have a toilet smell, terrible computer screen's and controls, not very user friendly
Asking which locomotive is better is just like asking which car is better - Chevy, Ford or Mopar. Everyone has their own personal likes and dislikes, all based on their personal perceptions and desires.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Just to get this thread back on track..
If I read the original post correctly, the person is asking which of the current mainline freight locomotive offerings from the "Big 2" North American Manufacturers are preferred by forum members who work in the railroad industry.
I don't hthnk he was asking what our favorites as railfans are....
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
carnej1 Just to get this thread back on track.. If I read the original post correctly, the person is asking which of the current mainline freight locomotive offerings from the "Big 2" North American Manufacturers are preferred by forum members who work in the railroad industry. I don't hthnk he was asking what our favorites as railfans are....
And real world engineers that deal with the locomotives on a daily basis don't necessarily agree on what is 'best'. Part of my job is interacting with multiple T&E crews on a continuing and daily basis. Each have their favorites and their reasons vary.
d&henginner sd70's the only good thing about them is the wheel slip controls, other than that they have a bad ride, all have a toilet smell, terrible computer screen's and controls, not very user friendly
sd70's the only good thing about them is the wheel slip controls, other than that they have a bad ride, all have a toilet smell, terrible computer screen's and controls, not very user friendly
Asking which locomotive is better is just like asking which car is better - Chevy, Ford or Mopar. Everyone has their own personal likes and dislikes, all based on their personal perceptions and desires. And real world engineers that deal with the locomotives on a daily basis don't necessarily agree on what is 'best'. Part of my job is interacting with multiple T&E crews on a continuing and daily basis. Each have their favorites and their reasons vary.
Someone on this thread who speaks as a locomotive engineer claims that the current EMDs ride roughly and smell like a toilet. To claim that (crew) preferences in locomotives are a matter of personal taste is pretty dismissive to the person offering that assessment.
If I had a car that rode roughly and smelled like a toilet, I would not like that kind of car. A matter of taste and personal preference? What person out there has tastes that prefer being jounced around and subject to toilet smell? For an entire work shift? A certain degree of realism needs to be brought into these discussions.
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
Every Engineer has his own reality, one engineer swares by a particular manufacturers product and another swares at it. That is not being dismissive as each has his own reasons for his (or her) position.
One strange characteristic we've noticed with SD70's is the tendency of the inner front door to open as you're going down the road. Something in the way the cab flexes causes the door latch to bypass the keep and suddenly the cab gets even louder. This has happened on most SD70's I've had.
Kind of annoying.
RFP John, I retired too long ago to relate to the ride qualities of SD70's, whatever flavor built since 2002, but that HTC truck solved rock and roll problems on stick rail, alternating joints. Door opening oscillations? Duh'no.
How about this: Number two on the roster came in the register room, and three of us who compared to him were diaper-wearing, snot-nosed babies complaining about the ride of some newly delivered locomotives; he said that he worked on engines that rode so roughly that you'd have to stand up to absorb enough vibration to....see anything!
This was early early 1970's; he was talking about hogs, steam engines.
Interestingly witty: his surname spelled out: Millard.
If you weren't with him and someone asked for him on the 'phone saying Mill-lard almost invariably, he'd say Mill-erd. But if you asked for Mr. Mill-erd, he'd say "I'm Bill Mill-Lard, have you got the right number?
Efftenxrfe,
You haven't missed anything by not experiencing a SD70. I don't know if you ever had the pleasure of running any AC's late in your career, personally I don't like the way they load. They lunge when you first open 'em up and will lunge at low speed if you're not careful. The dynamics will stand 'em on their heads, though!
I worked with a lot of old steam guys in the 70's and 80's. I really enjoyed their stories. The RF&P guys loved their Governors and Generals (don't even think about calling them Northerns!). They were said to all ride good and steam well. They didn't care much for the 2-8-4s bought during the war, I'm not sure why, but I do recall them not caring for the Baker valve gear. I can't figure how that would make much difference to an engineer. The roughest riding engines they spoke of were some leased C&O engines during the war. I've seen pictures of both C&O Mountains and Pacifics on the RF&P so I don't know which was worse.
Growing up in PRR territory, I heard that the G5s was bad enough that guys would bid off assignments with those ten wheelers on them.
RFP John, my compliment's. Worthy comprehensions.
The G5s were what we had, along with H10s, in the early and conclusive '50s;
That the G5s was "bad enough"....
On Long Island, they were all we had.....
Disillusioned....the LIRR was the East End of the Island's only railroad. If you're a 'fan there, what...what?....?
I ran thSP SD70's, the UP 4000's (early on virtual duplicates of the SP SD70's) and all the others until the year July 2002, and their characteristic"s I know.
My uncle has a grudge on the ACes, but I will point out that it is amplified by the fact that he works for CSX, and being pre-production units, he has to wear earplugs when in their cabs.
That aside, he also says that the microprocessor control system has to think about where it's going, so he has to hit the throttle before releasing the brakes, especially before going uphill. The air starter also hinders the ACe.
I could keep going, but the GEVO is better of the two you listed. The SD40-2 trumps both models, however.
Blue Alert! We're at Blue Alert! Aw crap, it's a nondescript GEVO... Cancel Blue Alert!
BaltACD Every Engineer has his own reality, one engineer swares by a particular manufacturers product and another swares at it. That is not being dismissive as each has his own reasons for his (or her) position.
What a country! Existential philosophy gets discussed on a train enthusiast Web site.
I happen to be a Thomist (after Thomas Aquinas' interpretation of Aristotle). I regard there to be an objective reality to a toilet smell. Maybe a person could get used to it, maybe a person can learn to ignore it, but in this philosophical system, we all smell the same thing, and most of us don't like having to smell it at home or in the workplace.
So is it the Kierkegaardian view that each locomotive crew member has their own personal perception of toilet smell? And a throttle handle that has its own reality regarding the displacement of that handle and how the locomotive interprets how much tractive effort to put out?
Maybe there is a marketing opportunity, people. You know those perfume bricks that you can hang from your rear view mirror that offer scents such as "new car" and "spring breeze"? Maybe we could sell perfume bricks such as "SD-70ACe"? Mmmmm-mm, a blend of the tang of spilt #2 Diesel with retention-tank odor, brings back memories of days spent in the cab . . .
You want a good engine.................it has come and gone and it is the Geep 9. Most durable engine ever made. The SD70 is made up of the same basic stuff that went into the SD9.
MICHAEL G MORRIS You want a good engine.................it has come and gone and it is the Geep 9. Most durable engine ever made.
You want a good engine.................it has come and gone and it is the Geep 9. Most durable engine ever made.
You need to realize the GP/SD9 was built with very limited technology compared to the SD40. They were primitive compared to the computerized systems and they ran on raw bare bones horse power. There was never such a engine with a Dash 2 configuration in the first generation locomotives, i.e. SD9-2. We need to realize there are still some SD9,s still in service. Granted the SD40 has always been an extremely capable engine, but pound for pound there have always been more problems with the newer technology compared to the old stuff. This is why the Dash 2 configuration came about, to get rid of the problems they were having with the pre Dash 2 engines. Turbo chargers were an amazing development in the second generation engines but they were not without their inherent problems which were eventually ironed out.
GEVO's are a firm and outstanding locomotive built by and outstanding company. That is why they are rated the number one engine and that helped GE to overcome EMD for the Number One locomotive company. The earlier engines, CW4000-4400 series proved to be a solid winner and they held up for a number of years. GEVO's should be around in the40's.
I believe that one of the reasons for the long lives of many EMD products, in addition to their reliability, has been the availability of replacement parts. Historically, EMD has been willing to manufacture parts for just about any product, with few exceptions. I remember the mass retirements of SW1's when EMD discontinued manufacture of parts unique to the V-6 engine. It's a lot easier to keep an older locomotive in service when you don't have to scrounge for parts.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.