I'm curious as to what shortlines will be using as motive power in the future. Eventually, the GP9s, SD40-2, GP38-2s, SW9s, Sw1200,s will wear out and something will have to replace them. From what I've seen, shortlines buy second-hand power but AC4400s, and SD70ACes, etc will be the second-hand power in the future. Now for most shortlines, those would be too large for some rail lines or there wouldn't be enough carloads to warrant the use of such beasts. Will locomotive builders bring out smaller locomotives for the market or will the rebuilding carry on?
Lone Geep
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NRE is demonstrating a most interesting genset concept on the IHB at this time. The 2GS36C seems to be aimed at the shortline/regional/terminal market as a true road switcher.
My guess would be, initially, repower using genset or hybrid kits. These would retain the underframe, trucks, etc. of older units, much like a road slug conversion but with smaller engines to suit expected horsepower.
In the very long term, I'd expect truck substitution with one of the costed-down European alternatives, which by then ought to be cheaply available. Mostly welded fabrication rather than castings, so easier to maintain with increasing age. Lighter TMs may give a locomotive more tolerant of bad track; high frame or chassis mounting gives at least the possibility of operating in a certain level of standing water or surviving flood damage.
I don't believe any of the 'new-built' shortline locomotive power developments over the years have been particularly successful. Some sort of VERY attractive financing/leasing package would have to be developed (and with GM out of the picture, this seems dubious) -- a 'power by the hour' model even with high reliability doesn't suit most shortline operations, which might best be served by a finance model linked to mileage without regard to time.
If there is a successful modern design, engine choice will be interesting. Someone with direct knowledge can comment on how long the aftermarket can sustain parts and repairs to existing engines, like 567s and 251s -- I suspect high EPA tiers will effectively retire the GM 2-stroke as a shortline motor unless there's some sort of waiver program for them. I'd suspect again that modular gensets will be the 'best' solution. Not sure that larger engine/generators can make it up to critical mass for cost-effectiveness in shortline markets. That Caterpillar 20-cylinder motor is an interesting design, and it does share parts with smaller versions of the same family, but who will pay full price for enough of them to make the parts and aftermarket support cheap enough later?
I do have to wonder if there is a cost advantage in buying older C-C diesels, cutting them down judiciously, and retrucking. That approach certainly has worked in Brazil! But where much lower axle load and uncertain track geometry is concerned, there would have to be serious weight and probably length reduction... so as above, a road slug teardown, shortening the frame, and repower/retruck may be workable if the cost of the older road units becomes low enough.
Now, I do have to wonder what changes might be made to a HTCR truck to make it more suitable to cross-level uncertainty. Radial steering ought to make a C truck more flexible than a standard B truck, and spreading engine weight across more axles might be beneficial too. Here one of the "A-1-A" conversions, including those with jackable center axles for greater starting adhesion, might give value.
OvermodI do have to wonder if there is a cost advantage in buying older C-C diesels, cutting them down judiciously, and retrucking.
That would be hard to do. C-C's have the top and bottom frame member significantly thicker than their B-B counterparts. It's how they are ballasted You'd wind up having to do something like replacing the entire bottom sheet of the frame - which would be about as much work as building a new frame.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
EMD is delivering a big order of GP 22 ECO locomotives to CN that are new from the frame up so a shortline with deep pockets could go that route....
Maqny of the older 4 axle units operating today may be around for a very long time, even without remaNUFACTURING..
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
Doesn't Brookville build a 2000 HP B-B loco?
MidlandMike Doesn't Brookville build a 2000 HP B-B loco?
Brookville has built some 2000 HP locomotives both with and without HEP for Metro North and MTA. They also have an order under construction for suburban locomotives for SunRail in Tampa. Their main line of business is mining equipment and industrial switchers.
The big issue in the next couple of years will be Tier 4 exhaust emissions. EMD's solution is the 710ECO upgrade package - this has been sold to a number of railroads(CP has over 100 units ordered that just use old trucks).
Genset re-power packages are the other possible path for medium power road locomotives BNSF has been ordering for test both some 710ECO units and some Genset units from Progress Rail to determine what direction they will take.
567 & 251 parts sourcing, and emissions are going to be an issue with these. Even 645 parts and getting certification/exemptions may be an issue down the road.
BNSF had a program there they buy old 'cores'(junker GP38/40's) and have them rebuilt with new electronic control systems into 'super' GP38's. I suspect future rebuilds will look at either 710ECO or Genset conversions on those old EMD frames.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
Good Day,
With the EPA Tier 4 requirements starting in 2015, I’m thinking the return of the Geep! The original GP40 and SD70ACe drawings were created by Michael Eby. The drawings below were modified and created by me combining the GP40 and SD70ACe.
Presenting the EMD GP20ACe and GP30ACe
Regards,
Swafford
Frisco West Good Day, With the EPA Tier 4 requirements starting in 2015, I’m thinking the return of the Geep! The original GP40 and SD70ACe drawings were created by Michael Eby. The drawings below were modified and created by me combining the GP40 and SD70ACe. Presenting the EMD GP20ACe and GP30ACe Regards, Swafford
However I do think there may eventually be AC traction motor equipped swichers and roadswitchers in the North American market, Europe and other parts of the world already use AC drive in some similiar applications..In the US Republic locomotives is offering a 500 HP industrial "critter" type unit with AC drive:
http://www.republiclocomotive.com/rx500_industrial_locomotives.html
Also keep in mind that the Chicago Transit Authority is taking delivery of rapid transit cars (5000 series) with AC traction motors.
My thinking the top 20 regional railroads need a good Geep. The GP22ECO would be a great fit.
I still think my idea of a GP20ACe and GP30ACe is a good idea.
Most of the top 20 regional railroads don't buy new motive power but that may change as time goes on.
The big drawback with any widecab 4 axle power like your those in your drawings (other than serious weight issues, that's why BNSF is buying A-1-A (i.e three axle trucks with the middle axle unpowered) ES44C-4s rather than a hypothetical ES40ACB (according to a recent TRAINS article GE did design work on such a locomotive but it would have been HEAVY)) is that regional railroads expect to do a lot of switching with their BB locos and a conventional cab is much better for visibility..
That said I do think EMD could offer AC traction motors on roadswitchers in the future but the market is not there for it at the moment..
I have kind of a dumb question.
What about electrification? On a short line it might not be that expensive. And if you could do the work at nite when base load needs are low it might be a deal for the power company. Potentially you might be able to talk the power company into stringing up the wires.
As to motive power strip out the prime mover replace with a transformer/rectifier.
Just a thought.
Thx IGN
The cost of erecting the 'overhead' wire system, and the electrical distribution are major expenses. The only freight short line I am aware is the Iowa Traction in Mason City, IA. They have either a 600 or 1200 volt DC wire that is fed by a rotary converter. They have a collection of old freight motors that were paid for long ago(as was the infrastructure). Converting an old GP by gutting the prime mover and replacing it with step down transformers, and DC control circuitry could be done, but I suspect 'fixing' the GP or buying a new one is a lot more cost efficient.
Why would the local power company want to string the low voltage DC wire when it provides no distribution of their 60 cycle AC? Peak usage is generally in the morning and in the afternoon(supper time) when folks get home from work and have the AC turned up and are cooking. As a shipper, would you want to wait until 'after hours' to have you box car spotted?
If the line is short enough, then a battery powered locomotive may be practical. This would allow for the battery to be charged when rates are lowest and the RR may be able to get a further discount by providing peaking power when the load exceeds generation (e.g. early evening when home A/C's get turned on, or when a sudden calm shuts down a wind farm).
- Erik
Iowa Traction is probably the only Iowa interurban that did not dieselize its freight service like Fort Dodge, Des Moines & Southern; Des Moines and Central Iowa; CRANDIC; etc. That sort of short electrification would be a lot more expensive when you consider the capital costs of overhead wire, substations, etc. Locomotives would also be more expensive since they would not be standardized off-the-shelf items like the ECO line from EMD or gensets from various builders.
narig01PS What is the difference between using what is essentially a diesel generator or getting that power from an overhead wire? Maybe it is unworkable but I am curious.Thx IGN
I'm not completely sure what you are asking but from the perspective of cost installing the overhead wire system is much more expensive than buying a diesel electric locomotive and paying for the fuel to run it...
narig01The point I am trying to ask is this: If one were to electrify at a voltage that the power company uses for distribution (2400 VAC 60hz) could that be a little more attractive for a power company? I am kind of doing this from memory if I remember correctly most power companies use 2400VAC 60hz for distribution.
2400VAC was pretty much obsolete after WW2, distribution now is at 7kV or higher.
carnej1 narig01PS What is the difference between using what is essentially a diesel generator or getting that power from an overhead wire? Maybe it is unworkable but I am curious.Thx IGN I'm not completely sure what you are asking but from the perspective of cost installing the overhead wire system is much more expensive than buying a diesel electric locomotive and paying for the fuel to run it...
From Fred Frailey's columns, it would appear there is a strong possibility compressed natural gas may be the fuel of the future, and it has the advantage that older diesel power can be converted and give far lower emmisions at the same time as lower fuel costs.
Speaking of the CRANDIC, they have rolled out a new locomotive from Relco in Albia, IA.
It will be CIC 201 with slug CIC 301 in a new paint scheme.
Photo credit--Joe Abels.
I'm not too surprised that RELCO got into this market, they have been leasing and rebuilding locomotives (mostly switchers) for a long time. At any rate, there are now several builders who are offering products suitable for the shortline/regional market.
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