i have both H.O scale u-50 & the turbine & i was wondering did they operate them together in a consist ,i mean i assume that they did since they operated around the same time frame , does anybody have pics of the 2 together??
Which turbine? I know the U50's were built with the scrapped trucks and running gear of the earlier turbines. That really only leaves the Big Blows, and with 8500 hp on tap I doubt they ever needed extra locomotives for help.
However, I only generally know about them and could be wrong. Any UP experts have a definite answer?
I would put it in the realm of possibility. My sighting may have been clouded with youthful enthusiasm but I remember back in 1968 while on a family vacation seeing a Big Blow with a DD35B behind the tender. Also, all of the gas turbines were equipped with MU and diesels behind the tender as part of the motive power consist did occur.
CSSHEGEWISCH I would put it in the realm of possibility. My sighting may have been clouded with youthful enthusiasm but I remember back in 1968 while on a family vacation seeing a Big Blow with a DD35B behind the tender. Also, all of the gas turbines were equipped with MU and diesels behind the tender as part of the motive power consist did occur.
All but 6 turbines were equipped to run with diesels, and I believe they did do so with some regularity.
(No need to say 'B' as they were all boosters as delivered; when some of them got cabs they were called DD35As to so indicate -- I think it's like the 25 and 25NC nomenclature in South Africa)
A DD35 would be a logical choice to run behind turbines in the latter years, and I am not surprised this was observed. (Please, please... somebody find a picture, or operating recollections... ;-} )
My concern is that running U50s in place of cabless engines, which is the specific thing Thomas asked originally, is still undetermined, even adjusting for the fact that all the 'flavors' of U50 inherently included turbine running gear. I would suspect that the U50s running in general service would be on trains *not* headed by turbines, and that the older 'booster' power (the GP9s and the like) was more likely to see use on such trains.
The 'Fast Forties' sandwiching a DD35, and then two Centennials sandwiching a Forty, were all years after the last turbine ran. I doubt very much that a Centennial of any flavor ran behind turbines in the brief overlap, if for no other reason that the innovative control systems on them would only show benefits if the Centennial was leading, and the turbines would not run MU in trail. In any case I believe the Centennials were geared higher and would not have shown best economy run behind turbines instead of heading up their own trains.
RME
man i would love to u-50 dd40ax-dd35- century 855 on 1 train
Overmod(No need to say 'B' as they [DD35s?] were all boosters as delivered; when some of them got cabs they were called DD35As...
Believe me... not only do I remember that, I checked with a couple of sources before posting.
[EDIT -- I checked the wrong stuff; the name actually used is 'DDA35' -- see below. But there is no "DDB35"]
I have never seen two UP Big blows double heading with each other. But I have seen them double heading with lots of other locomotives. Since the turbines were operating during the last years of steam, it was pretty common to see the turbines double heading with the Big boys and Challengers. I have seen the Big blows with sometimes 6 or 7 other locomotives trailing behind it. Pentrex's video "Union pacific turbines on the Wasatch" has some great action.
The U50's double headed with each other all the time. They also seemed to double head with every other locomotive the Union pacific had. This link has some photos of the U50's including one with a U50 double heading wtih a DD35B. http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?locomotive=GE%20U50
I also found this slide on Ebay of a turbine and Big boy double heading that sold for a whopping $93.00.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Slides-Union-Pacific-53-Turbine-UP-4006-Big-Boy-Action-/281020812061?nma=true&si=xhLx6Frs1syssb%252F7I0YG2xKs5p8%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Thomas 9011 I have never seen two UP Big blows double heading with each other. But I have seen them double heading with lots of other locomotives. Since the turbines were operating during the last years of steam, it was pretty common to see the turbines double heading with the Big boys and Challengers. I have seen the Big blows with sometimes 6 or 7 other locomotives trailing behind it. Pentrex's video "Union pacific turbines on the Wasatch" has some great action. The U50's double headed with each other all the time. They also seemed to double head with every other locomotive the Union pacific had. This link has some photos of the U50's including one with a U50 double heading wtih a DD35B. http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?locomotive=GE%20U50 I also found this slide on Ebay of a turbine and Big boy double heading that sold for a whopping $93.00. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Slides-Union-Pacific-53-Turbine-UP-4006-Big-Boy-Action-/281020812061?nma=true&si=xhLx6Frs1syssb%252F7I0YG2xKs5p8%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Well I am sure other forum members will be able to cite the correct chapter- and- verse of this I recall reading that UP did try to run the original 5400 hp series of GTELS in a doubleheaded configuration but found that the trailing units expereinced turbine issues due to ingesting the exhaust of the front units. This led directly to the modification of the gar turbine fleet to allow MU'ing with trailing diesels.
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
thomas81z i have both H.O scale u-50 & the turbine & i was wondering did they operate them together in a consist ,i mean i assume that they did since they operated around the same time frame , does anybody have pics of the 2 together??
The standard and Veranda Turbines were traded in and the sets of BB trucks were used for the U50D diesels.
All of the pictures I have found show the Veranda models with GP9 models, but there are always exceptions to any practice.
The large 8500 HP turbines were used with diesels also and I found pictures of #11 with two DD35A and 1 DD35 B models. Other pictures show SD24 units with the 8500HP turbines. The most unusual picture shows a GE U-25B and one GP-9B leading #24 turbine east at Grand Island. I did not know diesels were used as the lead unit for the large turbine. This could have been a failure for the turbine.
Using your Model Railroader license, you could substitute one of the U50's for the DD35 units. Hey, this is model railroading and we can enjoy our head end power as we see fit!
Well, if you at Don Strack's web site, Utah Rails, you will find what you are looking for. It did happen. His web page contains hundreds of pictures. Check it out!
CZ
http://donstrack.smugmug.com/UtahRails/Union-Pacific/Weber-Echo/21343286_n4FLSD#!i=1701239105&k=gX84WvJ
Overmodnot only do I remember that, I checked with a couple of sources before posting.
CAZEPHYR thomas81z i have both H.O scale u-50 & the turbine & i was wondering did they operate them together in a consist ,i mean i assume that they did since they operated around the same time frame , does anybody have pics of the 2 together?? The standard and Veranda Turbines were traded in and the sets of BB trucks were used for the U50D diesels. All of the pictures I have found show the Veranda models with GP9 models, but there are always exceptions to any practice. The large 8500 HP turbines were used with diesels also and I found pictures of #11 with two DD35A and 1 DD35 B models. Other pictures show SD24 units with the 8500HP turbines. The most unusual picture shows a GE U-25B and one GP-9B leading #24 turbine east at Grand Island. I did not know diesels were used as the lead unit for the large turbine. This could have been a failure for the turbine. Using your Model Railroader license, you could substitute one of the U50's for the DD35 units. Hey, this is model railroading and we can enjoy our head end power as we see fit! Well, if you at Don Strack's web site, Utah Rails, you will find what you are looking for. It did happen. His web page contains hundreds of pictures. Check it out! CZ http://donstrack.smugmug.com/UtahRails/Union-Pacific/Weber-Echo/21343286_n4FLSD#!i=1701239105&k=gX84WvJ
timz Overmod(No need to say 'B' as they [DD35s?] were all boosters as delivered; when some of them got cabs they were called DD35As...Might as well check on that one.
True, but many do not know that fact and I normally try to clarify the information. The list shows them to actually be DDA35 units. Surprise!!!!
1965 (1,354 total diesel/GTEL on 1 January 1965)
DDA35 Order Numbers
CAZEPHYR ... The list shows them to actually be DDA35 units. Surprise!!!!
Surprise, indeed! This is what comes, I suppose, of not referring to actual EMD or UP records when learning about stuff. Thanks.
I remember being astounded to learn that EMD doesn't use terminology like "567" for its engines, they go by the block number. "Railfan" names for things often distinct from what actual railroaders call them. That sort of thing.
As Benny Hill used to say, "Learnink all ze time..."
thomas81z CSSHEGEWISCH I would put it in the realm of possibility. My sighting may have been clouded with youthful enthusiasm but I remember back in 1968 while on a family vacation seeing a Big Blow with a DD35B behind the tender. Also, all of the gas turbines were equipped with MU and diesels behind the tender as part of the motive power consist did occur. now that is interesting, no pic huh ??
My "wish I had my camera ready" was driving by Taylor yard in early 1977 and seeing an Espee DD-35B with what looked to be an SCL GP-35 on one end and a BN (memory is hazy on this one) GP-35 on the other end. Another memory was a 1969 sighting of an NP RB coal train hauled by F units.
- Erik
I don't know if the U50's and 4500hp GTEL's ran together, but there was a short period of overlap between the delivery of the first U50's and the retirement of the last "small" turbines - I believe of about eight to ten months. Many but not all of the smaller turbines were equipped for MU with diesels. So it's possible, but I've never seen a photo of that particular combination.
For the record, the 8500hp GTEL's were all equipped with MU and frequently ran with diesel help right up to the end. There are lots of photos of them leading one to several diesels, ranging from GP9's to SD45's. Again, I don't remember seeing photos of them MU'd with U50's, DD35A's or B's, C855's or DDA40X's, but there's no reason they couldn't have. Even the first U50C's arrived a few months before the last 8500hp turbines were retired, so that, too, was possible.
if it is possible it may have happened/ finding the photo evidence would only be sendipity !!!
The Big Blow's did not have dynamic brake capability comensurate withthsir HP.. Diesels multiple uniting with them were primarily to make up for this.
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