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CSX Dash 7's - The End of an Era

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CSX Dash 7's - The End of an Era
Posted by The Railwolf on Monday, January 11, 2010 11:53 PM

 Recently, CSX announced that all remaining Dash 7 locomotives (B30-7, B36-7, not much, if anything else, is still alive) will be retired. The very last run of a Dash 7 locomotive on the CSX (B36-7, wish I knew the number) occurred in November 2009 and all units are now officially retired. This makes me sad, as I had seen several of the B36's pass through here in early 2009, and wanted to see them again sometime. I know it sounds sappy, but I almost broke down when I heard the news.

 

Here is a video that I shot of the 5842 near Taft Yard in Orlando, Florida, back when she was still online:

5842 Idling in Taft Yard

 

Here's another video of another B36, 5894, bringing a manifest into Taft Yard:

 

5894 with Mixed Train

 

Here's a photo I took of 5842 working in Taft Yard one day early last year:

5842 in Taft Yard


And here is yet another B36 I sighted in Taft, 5854, but where she sits now, in Waycross:

5854 in Waycross, GA Deadline

 

CSX was also the last Class I Railroad to operate the Dash 7's, so they are now completely absent from service on the Class I's. I imagine they will soon disappear from regionals and even shortlines as well, due to engine parts becoming harder to find and especially because of the aluminum wiring in the electrical systems corroding. I will never understand why GE used aluminum instead of copper.

 I will miss these locomotives.Sad

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Posted by Lyon_Wonder on Tuesday, January 12, 2010 6:05 PM

I heard that CSX is rebuilding B40-8s into B20-8s, though I don't know if this involves simply derating the 16-FDL, replacing it with a 8-FDL, or even putting in GE's 6-cylinder GEVO that GE talked about last year.  A 8-FDL 2,000hp B20-8 would make it a Dash 8-equivalent of the U18B.  A GEVO-based rebuild would probably be a better option in the long run, but would likely require a more extensive rebuilding too.   

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Posted by CAZEPHYR on Tuesday, January 12, 2010 10:28 PM

It is always this way when the end comes for certain locomotives.   My thoughts now are beginning to turn to even more numerous variations of the EMD SD40-2 as they are now gone from our area in California for the most part.  The Union Pacific is replacing the local runs and work trains with the newer SD70M's and Gevo's around Roseville in place of the older units because of the air quality board and Tier I and Tier II requirements.  

The latest ECO units will be assigned here as soon as they leave Ontario looking like SD60M's, but derated to 3000HP with the new engines and computer controls.    It is not the same.

And the latest GE Gevo's now all have LED lighted number boards.   Hopefully, it is copper wiring this time.

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Posted by Andrew Falconer on Wednesday, January 13, 2010 12:08 AM

Are the General Electric Locomotives more like major appliances that have to replaced every 15-30 years than long term workhorses that get passed on from railroad to railroad?

Will we ever see any of the DASH 7s preserved or are they all to be scrapped?

Is the only way to preserve the DASH 7 is to buy an O Scale or G Gauge model?

 Andrew

Andrew

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Posted by The Railwolf on Wednesday, January 13, 2010 2:46 AM

 

Andrew Falconer

Are the General Electric Locomotives more like major appliances that have to replaced every 15-30 years than long term workhorses that get passed on from railroad to railroad?

Will we ever see any of the DASH 7s preserved or are they all to be scrapped?

Is the only way to preserve the DASH 7 is to buy an O Scale or G Gauge model?

 Andrew

The older GE locomotives never lasted as long as comparable EMD's, that's for sure. They seemed to wear out faster and needed more maintenance to keep them online. I know of very little older GE's in preservation, excluding the 44-tonners and kin. There are two U25B's in existence that I am aware of; neither has been fully restored and neither operate, although one (ex-L&N) is supposed to be restored to operating condition soon. It is unlikely that any of the CSX Dash 7 units will be saved, unless a private entity were to step in and purchase one, if that's even doable. I don't think CSX plans to scrap them all at once, but over several years, as was the case with the six-axle Dash 7's about five years ago. (Side note: Does anyone know if these locomotives are usually cut up on-site at Waycross, or if they are sent elsewhere for this?) It would be nice to see some of those B30's and B36's saved and restored to their former Seaboard paint, even just for static display.

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Posted by Bryan Jones on Wednesday, January 13, 2010 3:03 AM

The CSX B40-8's aren't being "rebuilt" into B20-8's, they are merely being derated from 4000hp to 2000hp. There's a big difference between rebuilding and just derating the unit. Still powered by 16 cylinder FDL's.

 

Bryan Jones

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Posted by The Railwolf on Wednesday, January 13, 2010 3:24 AM

 Are these B20-8's going to be keeping their turbochargers? I don't think I've ever, EVER seen a nonturbocharged FDL engine. This would be interesting to see/hear. Also, any ETA on these rebuilds? I have yet to see any, and was wondering if and when I should expect them in my area.

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Posted by creepycrank on Wednesday, January 13, 2010 10:42 AM
I think that the B20-8 is probably is an attempt to produce a GE version of the GP38 for local and switching service where the turbo is more of a liability than help. Without the turbo they may get another 5 years of service out of the engines. On 4 stroke engines stroke 1 and 4 serve the scavenging function and all that is needed is to severely limit the fuel. To modify the engine they have to remove the turbo, aftercoolers and external water and oil piping and fabricate a new inlet air duct. Without the turbo impeller in the way they get some decent air flow. This is probably CSX brainchild and they most likely had a candidate in a unit with a sick turbo that needed replacement. If GE was involved in any way with this it would have been front page news in every trade publication. They are in the business of selling new locomotives and rather see all of these go to the scrapper.
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Posted by BigJim on Wednesday, January 13, 2010 12:51 PM

I know it sounds sappy, but I almost broke down when I heard the news.

Good riddance and take the Dash 8's with them.

.

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Posted by SSW9389 on Wednesday, January 13, 2010 6:41 PM
A list of preserved GEs is here: http://www.thedieselshop.us/PRSVDge.HTML#Road . At the very bottom of the page there is one B30-7 preserved.
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Posted by The Railwolf on Wednesday, January 13, 2010 10:03 PM

BigJim

I know it sounds sappy, but I almost broke down when I heard the news.

Good riddance and take the Dash 8's with them.

 

That was rather unnecessary.Grumpy

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Posted by The Railwolf on Wednesday, January 13, 2010 10:04 PM

SSW9389
A list of preserved GEs is here: http://www.thedieselshop.us/PRSVDge.HTML#Road . At the very bottom of the page there is one B30-7 preserved.

 

 

Just ONE?Shock

 Seriously? Are there any operating Dash 7's anywhere else? Someone needs to phone CSX, I might myself!

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, January 14, 2010 10:18 AM

LS&I lists 4 ex-BN C30-7's on its roster, not sure how long they'll last.  A fair number were shipped to Brazil, where they were re-gauged (some were re-trucked) and are running on ALL and EFVM.  EF Carajas also has some C30-7's and C36-7's operating on broad gauge.  MRS operates a collection of various Dash-7's, both original and secondhand, on its broad-gauge lines.

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Posted by The Railwolf on Thursday, January 14, 2010 5:05 PM

 

CSSHEGEWISCH

LS&I lists 4 ex-BN C30-7's on its roster, not sure how long they'll last.  A fair number were shipped to Brazil, where they were re-gauged (some were re-trucked) and are running on ALL and EFVM.  EF Carajas also has some C30-7's and C36-7's operating on broad gauge.  MRS operates a collection of various Dash-7's, both original and secondhand, on its broad-gauge lines.

Well that's good to hear. I wonder if I'll see any of the B36's that I've documented converted to BB36-7's?

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, January 15, 2010 10:14 AM
The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by fredswain on Friday, January 15, 2010 1:50 PM

UP has an SD-40T-2 tunnel motor working switching duty at Lloyd Yard north of Houston. You never know when it will be retired or scrapped so one day last year when it was tied up on a siding next to an intermodal facility I took lots of photos from all around it while the security guard there watched. I even zoomed in on many details and have many closeups of random sections. Someday when they are gone, I'll be able to look back at my pictures and tell exactly what that engine had and where.

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Posted by BigJim on Friday, January 15, 2010 2:59 PM

The Railwolf

BigJim

I know it sounds sappy, but I almost broke down when I heard the news.

Good riddance and take the Dash 8's with them.

 

That was rather unnecessary.Grumpy

Yes it was. You obviously never had to run one!Tongue

.

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Posted by Tugboat Tony on Saturday, January 16, 2010 6:28 AM

creepycrank
I think that the B20-8 is probably is an attempt to produce a GE version of the GP38 for local and switching service where the turbo is more of a liability than help. Without the turbo they may get another 5 years of service out of the engines. On 4 stroke engines stroke 1 and 4 serve the scavenging function and all that is needed is to severely limit the fuel. To modify the engine they have to remove the turbo, aftercoolers and external water and oil piping and fabricate a new inlet air duct. Without the turbo impeller in the way they get some decent air flow. This is probably CSX brainchild and they most likely had a candidate in a unit with a sick turbo that needed replacement. If GE was involved in any way with this it would have been front page news in every trade publication. They are in the business of selling new locomotives and rather see all of these go to the scrapper.

 

 

 I highly doubt they would remove the turbo, if for nothing else it would be nearly impossible to meet emissions requirements without one. 

 

As an aside where did the notion come from that Turbo's are a bad thing?  I had a sizable fleet of GP38s I couldn't wait to get rid of and get some GP39's. Half the maintance and better fuel economy. I would almost always take a turbocharged unit over a naturally aspirated unit; if for maintance needs only.  Just my not so humble thoughts.

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Posted by SID6FIVE on Saturday, January 16, 2010 9:30 AM

The Railwolf

SSW9389
A list of preserved GEs is here: http://www.thedieselshop.us/PRSVDge.HTML#Road . At the very bottom of the page there is one B30-7 preserved.

 

 

Just ONE?Shock

 Seriously? Are there any operating Dash 7's anywhere else? Someone needs to phone CSX, I might myself!

The Minnesota Commercial railroad uses several B23-7's and a few B30-7's that they bought for scrap value and restored to running condition...they also have a couple of C30-7's and an SF30C...all these in addition to the Alcos they are known for...
Don't worry,it's not supposed to make sense...
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Posted by The Railwolf on Monday, January 18, 2010 11:48 PM

SID6FIVE

The Railwolf

SSW9389
A list of preserved GEs is here: http://www.thedieselshop.us/PRSVDge.HTML#Road . At the very bottom of the page there is one B30-7 preserved.

 

 

Just ONE?Shock

 Seriously? Are there any operating Dash 7's anywhere else? Someone needs to phone CSX, I might myself!

The Minnesota Commercial railroad uses several B23-7's and a few B30-7's that they bought for scrap value and restored to running condition...they also have a couple of C30-7's and an SF30C...all these in addition to the Alcos they are known for...

 

 That is good to know. On a side note, I had no idea that there were any SF30C's left. Tongue

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Posted by tleary01 on Tuesday, January 19, 2010 8:08 PM

The Railwolf

LS&I lists 4 ex-BN C30-7's on its roster, not sure how long they'll last.  A fair number were shipped to Brazil, where they were re-gauged (some were re-trucked) and are running on ALL and EFVM.  EF Carajas also has some C30-7's and C36-7's operating on broad gauge.  MRS operates a collection of various Dash-7's, both original and secondhand, on its broad-gauge lines.

Actually quite a number of B30-7, C30-7 and C36-7 locomotives from BNSF (BN and ATSF), UP and NS owned by Helm, and Conrail (sold when NS and CSX split up locomotive assets) are alive and well in Brazil.  Many have since been retrofitted with Locotrol-EB which is a combination of GE Global Signaling distributed power control and New York Air Brake CCB-2 Electronic Controlled Locomotive Brake.  I personally worked on 2 groups of Helm C30-7 locomotives, one ex Union Pacific and the other ex Norflok Southern that went to MRS.  I applied the Locotrol -EB hardware to the locomotives at Helm's Waycross GA shop but did not remove the 26L brake system, packed all of the remaining hardware (cables, connectors, etc) into the traction motor cooling ducts to keep it out of sight during shipment.  The locomotives were brought through Brazil customs as being equipped with Locotrol-EB which saved custom fees vs shipping the equipment separetly.  At the GE south America Shop in Belo Horizonte the 26L brake system was completely removed and the CCB-2 brake system was re-located to the brake compartment, cables were connected, antennas mounted, and wiring modified to convert the locomotives to full distributed power operation.

An interesting side note: I had a dificult time explaning to MRS why on the ex NS locomotives the power contactor and traction motor cable tags designated the motors as #1 starting at the long hood end of the locomotive and #6 as the motor at the short hood end.  They could not understand why a railroad would run a locomotive long hood forward.

       

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Posted by BLW ENGR on Wednesday, January 20, 2010 11:07 AM

Dash 7s wiring was all copper

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Posted by edbenton on Wednesday, January 20, 2010 12:14 PM

Alco was the one that USED Aluminum wiring on the Century Class.

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Posted by The Railwolf on Thursday, January 21, 2010 12:44 AM

tleary01

The Railwolf

LS&I lists 4 ex-BN C30-7's on its roster, not sure how long they'll last.  A fair number were shipped to Brazil, where they were re-gauged (some were re-trucked) and are running on ALL and EFVM.  EF Carajas also has some C30-7's and C36-7's operating on broad gauge.  MRS operates a collection of various Dash-7's, both original and secondhand, on its broad-gauge lines.

Actually quite a number of B30-7, C30-7 and C36-7 locomotives from BNSF (BN and ATSF), UP and NS owned by Helm, and Conrail (sold when NS and CSX split up locomotive assets) are alive and well in Brazil.  Many have since been retrofitted with Locotrol-EB which is a combination of GE Global Signaling distributed power control and New York Air Brake CCB-2 Electronic Controlled Locomotive Brake.  I personally worked on 2 groups of Helm C30-7 locomotives, one ex Union Pacific and the other ex Norflok Southern that went to MRS.  I applied the Locotrol -EB hardware to the locomotives at Helm's Waycross GA shop but did not remove the 26L brake system, packed all of the remaining hardware (cables, connectors, etc) into the traction motor cooling ducts to keep it out of sight during shipment.  The locomotives were brought through Brazil customs as being equipped with Locotrol-EB which saved custom fees vs shipping the equipment separetly.  At the GE south America Shop in Belo Horizonte the 26L brake system was completely removed and the CCB-2 brake system was re-located to the brake compartment, cables were connected, antennas mounted, and wiring modified to convert the locomotives to full distributed power operation.

An interesting side note: I had a dificult time explaning to MRS why on the ex NS locomotives the power contactor and traction motor cable tags designated the motors as #1 starting at the long hood end of the locomotive and #6 as the motor at the short hood end.  They could not understand why a railroad would run a locomotive long hood forward.

       

 

That's some interesting information, thanks for sharing! Big Smile

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Posted by The Railwolf on Thursday, January 21, 2010 12:45 AM

BLW ENGR

Dash 7s wiring was all copper

Really?! Everyone I've talked to has told me that it was aluminum. At least, that's what I know.

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Posted by The Railwolf on Thursday, January 21, 2010 12:45 AM

edbenton

Alco was the one that USED Aluminum wiring on the Century Class.

I also did not know this. There seems to be several more preserved Century units than Dash 7's.

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Posted by edbenton on Thursday, January 21, 2010 6:06 AM

Who still around BUILDING locomotives also.  GE or ALCO considering ALCO went belly up in 1969 over 40 years ago and MLW their Canadian succescor hasnot made anything since 1980 and ALCO was a fan favorite is it any wonder why more were preserved.  The PA1 was named a Honerary Stem Engine by David P Morgan that give you a clue how popular they were for the fans.  GE no one liked them becasue everyone swears they stabbed ALCO in the back when they pulled their Electrical systems from them when they came out with their U series.  Yet if you look at history GE BUILT THE FIRST Diesel Electric used in the USA in the 20's for the CNJ.  EMC later EMD did not Alco did not FM Baldwin didnot do it GE did a little boxcab switcher for the CNJ that was used on the docks was the first one ever built in the US.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, January 21, 2010 6:42 AM

The "honorary steam locomotive" title was bestowed on the Alco PA by George W Hilton (not DPM) in his review in TRAINS of "The Nickel Plate Story" by John Rehor.  Also, Alco continued to use GE electrical gear in its locomotives even after GE came out with the Universal line in 1955.

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Posted by KBCpresident on Thursday, January 21, 2010 10:37 PM
Has BNSF retired their B-30s in blue and yellow? We saw one but it was in the the mid 2000s.

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Posted by beaulieu on Thursday, January 21, 2010 11:45 PM

Andrew Falconer

Are the General Electric Locomotives more like major appliances that have to replaced every 15-30 years than long term workhorses that get passed on from railroad to railroad?

Will we ever see any of the DASH 7s preserved or are they all to be scrapped?

Is the only way to preserve the DASH 7 is to buy an O Scale or G Gauge model?

 Andrew

 

 

GE keeps tighter controls on it's parts so that there are few available from aftermarket sources. This tends to raise the cost of overhauling the locomotives. When the time comes for the second major overhaul at about the 18 year mark the railroads tend to start scavenging the fleet for parts units to keep the remainder going for a few more years. GE would rather the companies buy new locomotives rather than overhaul them a second time. New EPA regulations may make this the new normal where nobody's locomotives are kept more than about 20 years, at least in anything like original form.

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