http://www.trains.com/trn/default.aspx?c=a&id=5167
Am I reading this right? $8M/locomotive? 8 x 9 = 72, right?
Over 3X the price for a similar diesel locomotive. What gives?
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
It's a short production run for a non-standard locomotive, so the price is not too surprising.
Is this an electric? Could that add to the "one-of" price of the thing?
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
Yes, these are one of a kind German electric loco, simply an upgraded ALP-46. The original '46s were around $5M each, IIRC. Between the original '46s and the '46As (both orders), there are/will be a total of 65, numbered 4600-4664.
For more, see this thread.
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So if this is a German locomotive that is of course built in Germany, the shipping price is going to boost the price probably... Also if it's one of a kind, that will of course make a diffrence. Billy Mays says, "But wait there's more!" "Buy one ALP-46, and get a second one for just 1/2 off!!!" "For 8 easy payments of of just $1M!" I exagerate minutely.
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If you were running NJ TRANSIT and maybe the writing on the wall (?) calls for a large expansion of electrification would you buy new ALP-46As electrics to have available for a large expansion and also provide better train acceleration? Also would the older ALP - 44s have resale value to other carriers?
Don't forget to add in the relative decline of the Dollar versus the Euro in the last couple of years.
As an example Green Cargo (freight arm of Swedish State Railways) ordered 10 Bombardier F140AC2 electrics, similar to the ALP-46A (but a standard production model) for € 5.1 million ea. these have 7 train protection systems to run in Germany, Denmark, and of course Sweden. They lack a HEP system, and of course use a standard carbody built to meet European Crash standards. The FRA compliant carbody, along with the essentially handbuilt production required, offsets the savings on having fewer train protection systems.
blue streak 1 If you were running NJ TRANSIT and maybe the writing on the wall (?) calls for a large expansion of electrification would you buy new ALP-46As electrics to have available for a large expansion and also provide better train acceleration? Also would the older ALP - 46s have resale value to other carriers?
If you were running NJ TRANSIT and maybe the writing on the wall (?) calls for a large expansion of electrification would you buy new ALP-46As electrics to have available for a large expansion and also provide better train acceleration? Also would the older ALP - 46s have resale value to other carriers?
ALP-46s are only 8 years old... Maybe you mean the ALP-44s...
ALP-44s Os (original, 1990) and Es (extra, 1995) will be rebuilt to ALP-44M (1996) standards. The ALP-44Ms, being the newest '44s, currently are not planned to be rebuilt. ALP-46As ARE NOT GOING TO REPLACE ALP-44s. They are 1) to supplement the current electric fleet, and 2) to prevent power shortage while the ALP-44s are being rebuilt. When they come back, there are RUMORS of a few '44s being leased out, but THEY WILL NOT BE RETIRED/SOLD.
And then there's the ALP-45DP dual modes that will be coming in a few years...
Sorry, just wanted to get actual the message across, not any made up information.
If anyone would like a link to a site with info from insiders from NJT, feel free to PM me.
Wrong pitchman.
"You know the Germans always make great stuff."
"You were gonna spend that much on diesel fuel anyways."
"Follow me camera guy."
Mike WSOR engineer | HO scale since 1988 | Visit our club www.WCGandyDancers.com
wow....that is major ''bread' for a locomotive.i thought that they cost between$2-$3 million and not $8 million .too expensive.
Yes, youre right Blade. 8 million is quite expensive. I wonder if these locomotives have alway's been $8M or if it's just this tough economey? Like said before though. I bet it does cost a lot to have Germany build a locomotive that conforms to FRA safety standards.
Exactly. Bombardier has to make this loco (of a German design) and bring it up to FRA standards. Back in 2001, the original ALP-46s were nearly $5m. The '46As are updated (all new systems, more pulling power, etc.) so it makes sense that they are more expensive.
That, and the fact that the economy is way different now than it was in 2001...
Hey, at least NJT isn't putting down $8m apiece for something from Alstom... HAHAHA!
Here is a big part of the problem
6/13/09 $8,000,000 = € 5,680,000
6/13/01 $8,000,000 = € 9,360,000
Understand?
ns3010 Maybe you mean the ALP-44s...
OOPs; Yes you are right -- corrected my post.
beaulieu Here is a big part of the problem 6/13/09 $8,000,000 = € 5,680,000 6/13/01 $8,000,000 = € 9,360,000
Exactly...
WSOR,
I was gonna say that! As for my local railroad spending that kind of money, I know they have been purchasing new equipment lately, not just locomotives. Lets hope they don't raise fares to compensate.
NJT has already announced that they won't be raising fares to pay for this stuff. Instead, the Bus Union is taking a Pay Freeze to help Transit pay of their debt. HAHAHAH!
ns3010,
Hi Joe. Just checked your sites out, seems like you have a lot going on. Since we are both around the same area I look forward to what you will do with your layout in the future. Keep up the good work and I'll be interested to see how your NJT stuff comes out.
You could still buy an American made locomotive at 3 million dollars and get 24 locomotives. I don't understand our thinking process!
Awesome! You could still buy an American made locomotive at 3 million dollars and get 24 locomotives. I don't understand our thinking process!
An American-built unmodified freight locomotive, perhaps. It would be interesting to find out what GE would have charged for a short run of electrics that met NJT's requirements and specs.
CSSHEGEWISCH An American-built unmodified freight locomotive, perhaps. It would be interesting to find out what GE would have charged for a short run of electrics that met NJT's requirements and specs.
Doubtful they would even bother, they haven't bid on any recent Commuter Diesel orders.
Sounds like Amtrak is going to bid out a new fleet of electrics. It will be interesting to see if GE gets in the game.
I still can't get my mind around $8M for a locomotive. I think I'd have to go back to the manufacturers and ask, "What can I get for $4M?"
oltmannd Sounds like Amtrak is going to bid out a new fleet of electrics. It will be interesting to see if GE gets in the game. I still can't get my mind around $8M for a locomotive. I think I'd have to go back to the manufacturers and ask, "What can I get for $4M?"
An analogy might be with Boeing, who designed several aircraft (both 747 series derived and all new) which would compete with the Airbus A380 in size and performance but their marketing people determined that the world market for planes that size was only in the 350-500 range and they didn't want to commit the development money and resources for what they felt was too small a demand. This is one of the reasons why there are many types of machinery and equipment (railroad and otherwise) that can no longer be bought "made in America"..
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
oltmanndSounds like Amtrak is going to bid out a new fleet of electrics. It will be interesting to see if GE gets in the game. I still can't get my mind around $8M for a locomotive. I think I'd have to go back to the manufacturers and ask, "What can I get for $4M?"
Like the McDonalds commercial for the dollar menu.............. Guy says to a cab driver...."what can I get for this?".....cab driver says......"you can get out."
Dennis Blank Jr.
CEO,COO,CFO,CMO,Bossman,Slavedriver,Engineer,Trackforeman,Grunt. Birdsboro & Reading Railroad
Awesome!I don't understand our thinking process!
There were some cases where Transit made a decision because it was the right one and/or they were forced to, such as:Multilevels (no other two-level car could fit in the North River TunnelsDual-Modes (no locomotive offered diesel and catenary power)
And then there were some bad ones:PL42ACs (could have easily bought other "proven" locos)
The only good thing is that we know that this is money well spent, because the ALP-46s are reliable and have proven so in the past 8 years.
ns3010And then there were some bad ones:PL42ACs (could have easily bought other "proven" locos)
Out of interest, which were the other "proven" locos ?
Tony
owlsroost ns3010 And then there were some bad ones:PL42ACs (could have easily bought other "proven" locos) Out of interest, which were the other "proven" locos ? Tony
ns3010 And then there were some bad ones:PL42ACs (could have easily bought other "proven" locos)
MPI MPXpress, GE P40s and P42s (I'm glad they didn't choose that option, I just am anti-GE!)Or they could always rebuild some more geeps
Don't get me wrong, the PL42s are some of my favorite locos. But I will admit that they have their fair share (that's an understatement) of problems, and they do often "crap out."
carnej1It would be interesting to see a new electric locomotive design from GE but IMO it's very unlikely. General Electric like most large U.S capital equipment manufacturers seems to be loath to design and market anything they can't sell a thousand of nowadays (aalthough I do note that GE would like to sell Amtrak new diesel locomotives). An analogy might be with Boeing, who designed several aircraft (both 747 series derived and all new) which would compete with the Airbus A380 in size and performance but their marketing people determined that the world market for planes that size was only in the 350-500 range and they didn't want to commit the development money and resources for what they felt was too small a demand. This is one of the reasons why there are many types of machinery and equipment (railroad and otherwise) that can no longer be bought "made in America"..
The real problem is that you have to sell 320 planes to break even. With Airbus having a head start in the size category what was Boeing's chances of making a profit worth the risk? The only builder who will make a reasonable profit in that size category is the one who builds all of the planes.
beaulieu carnej1It would be interesting to see a new electric locomotive design from GE but IMO it's very unlikely. General Electric like most large U.S capital equipment manufacturers seems to be loath to design and market anything they can't sell a thousand of nowadays (aalthough I do note that GE would like to sell Amtrak new diesel locomotives). An analogy might be with Boeing, who designed several aircraft (both 747 series derived and all new) which would compete with the Airbus A380 in size and performance but their marketing people determined that the world market for planes that size was only in the 350-500 range and they didn't want to commit the development money and resources for what they felt was too small a demand. This is one of the reasons why there are many types of machinery and equipment (railroad and otherwise) that can no longer be bought "made in America".. The real problem is that you have to sell 320 planes to break even. With Airbus having a head start in the size category what was Boeing's chances of making a profit worth the risk? The only builder who will make a reasonable profit in that size category is the one who builds all of the planes.
Which is a very good point and ties into my point which is that GE is very unlikely to get back into building Electric Locomotives. In order for that to be worth the investment General Electric would have to be able to gain marketshare internationally from the European builders(Siemens and Bombardier in particular), the US is just not a big enough market for Electric motive power these days..
The PL42s keep things interesting..how else are you going to always see double-headed commuter trains? But they seem to be running better now, apparently those engines they built from the GP40FHs gave them some trouble too. Ironically, NJT did end up with "Genesis" units, though second hand, apparently for use on the Atlantic city runs.
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