Chinese JT56ACe: a Class 66 in disguise?

[Flint Hills Tex]

Well, all you European (and especially Great Britain) railfans: the exciting, newsbreaking story concerning EMD's new JT56ACe for China Rail sounded exhilarating, until I Googled it and found an artist's rendition and specs of what, to me, looks like an EMD Class 66-family locomotive.

http://www.thedieselshop.us/Data%20EMD%20JT56ACe.HTML 

They've been around for quite some time, so there's really nothing new about them. What do you guys think?

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

The big difference is internal:  The JT56ACe has a 265H engine and the JT42CWR (Class 66) has a 710 engine.

[beaulieu]

The Chinese locomotives were designed by the Chinese, and are much larger. They look like a more angular version of previous Chinese locomotives with some modifications to some components. With the Class 66 EMD designed the biggest box that would fit the British loading guage and then figured out how to stuff the necessary components into it.

[bogie_engineer]

There is virtually nothing common between the Class 66 and the JT56:

-Class 66 uses a radial cast truck, JT56 uses a rigid fabricated truck

-Class 66 has a conventional underframe with non-structural carbody, JT56 is a monocoque carbody with integral fuel tank and isolated cabs

-Class 66 uses 12-710, JT56 has 16-H four stroke engine

-Class 66 is DC traction, JT56 is AC traction

-Class 66 uses a water cooled shaft driven air compressor, JT56 uses an electric driven rotary screw compressor

-Class 66 is designed to British loading gauge, JT56 to Chinese clearance diagram

BTW, the JT56 was fully designed in LaGrange, all units will be manufactured by Dalian in China.

Dave

[postmark]

Hello Dave!

I am a train  fans  from China and I am very interested in EMD locomotives.

Since 2008, JT56 locomotives has been used in China for 15 years, its performance is very good, stable and reliable, currently 300 EMD locomotives are still in good operation in China railway. JT56 equipped 265H engine, with 6000 horsepower, AC traction, it can pull a maximum of 10000 tons of freight trains with one  engine，that's powerful! I really like this guy and have been looking at it and doing a lot of research.

I noticed that you are an engineer of EMD Company. Now I have a few questions to consult you and hope to get your reply. Thank you very much!

1.   I am very wonder about who designed the appearance of JT56 , because it does not look like the traditional style of EMD locomotives. I also read that some articles said that its appearance was designed in Dalian, China ,but it doesn't exactly look like a Chinese locomotive......So I'm a little confused.

2.   Who designed the monocoque carbody? You said that this locomotive was fully designed in LaGrange , but according to the Chinese railway academic , the carbody of JT56 was designed by EMD with Dalian together. 

In its early years, EMD supplied Class 67 locomotives to British Rail and PL42AC locomotives to the New Jersey Transit , they also had monocoque  carbody , Did the JT56 reference their design? Whether their technology is the same?  

3.   Well,  I got some information from Dalian：Initially，75 of a total of  300 JT56 units was manufactured in the United States, then shipped to China Dalian assembly. After a period of time, The remaining 225 units were gradually  manufactured  in Dalian China. Do you know some details about  this？

 

[bogie_engineer]

postmark

Hello Dave!

I am a train  fans  from China and I am very interested in EMD locomotives.

Since 2008, JT56 locomotives has been used in China for 15 years, its performance is very good, stable and reliable, currently 300 EMD locomotives are still in good operation in China railway. JT56 equipped 265H engine, with 6000 horsepower, AC traction, it can pull a maximum of 10000 tons of freight trains with one  engine，that's powerful! I really like this guy and have been looking at it and doing a lot of research.

I noticed that you are an engineer of EMD Company. Now I have a few questions to consult you and hope to get your reply. Thank you very much!

1.   I am very wonder about who designed the appearance of JT56 , because it does not look like the traditional style of EMD locomotives. I also read that some articles said that its appearance was designed in Dalian, China ,but it doesn't exactly look like a Chinese locomotive......So I'm a little confused.

2.   Who designed the monocoque carbody? You said that this locomotive was fully designed in LaGrange , but according to the Chinese railway academic , the carbody of JT56 was designed by EMD with Dalian together. 

In its early years, EMD supplied Class 67 locomotives to British Rail and PL42AC locomotives to the New Jersey Transit , they also had monocoque  carbody , Did the JT56 reference their design? Whether their technology is the same?  

3.   Well,  I got some information from Dalian：Initially，75 of a total of  300 JT56 units was manufactured in the United States, then shipped to China Dalian assembly. After a period of time, The remaining 225 units were gradually  manufactured  in Dalian China. Do you know some details about  this？

  

It's good to hear the locomotives have been good performers. When these locomotives were in the early design stage, it was late in 2004 which was a period of turmoil at EMD. I was assigned as the lead design engineer and together with a senior CAD designer, we developed a locomotive design based on an isolated engine/alternator and rigid mounted cabs. In early 2005, EMD was sold to investment bankers and I decided to retire since I had 36 years service and a nice pension coming. Others took on the design lead and decided that isolated cabs and rigid-mounted powertrain was a less-risky approach. Regarding your questions:

1. As far as I know, the design work was all done at EMD although with Dalian as the manufacturing partner, they would have been involved in consulting on the design and especially the painting and lettering (styling) to suit the customer. But EMD did all the structural design and analysis as well as the shaping of the cab and carbody profile, driven by the clearance requirements.
2. I am sure Dalian can state the design was done together due to the technology transfer and manufacturing arrangement but the purpose in working with both EMD and GE on 6,000HP locomotives was the technology transfer so Dalian could learn how EMD designed reliable locomotives. I wasn't around to know exactly who did what but I am sure EMD led the design, made the drawings, and did the structural analysis. The BR Class 67 and the NJT PL42AC were both designed and manufactured by the group in Valencia, Spain that was owned by Alstom at the time, later Vossloh, and now Stadler. The monocoque carbody technology is similar for all. Prior to those two, EMD designed the monocoque carbody on the LIRR DE30AC/DM30AC in the late 1990's. 
3. That sounds like the original plan but I do not know if that was followed. In other projects like this, I have seen that getting the manufacturing started in a foreign country generally takes longer than planned so EMD may have supplied more of the component parts, particularly for the engine, than scheduled.

Dave 

[Overmod]

I would like to know, from someone technically qualified in China, what was done to the 265H as provided to make it operate reliably at 6000hp.