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How hard is it to drive a train?

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How hard is it to drive a train?
Posted by bubbajustin on Monday, April 27, 2009 4:45 PM
This may seem like a real childish question, but how hard is it to drive a train? I'm sure it is harder for some things than others. Ex., Running a 19,000 ton coal train out of the powder river coal bastin when one of youre motors fails, would be eiser than runnig a 3 car locol across Kansas. I sometimes worry that when I grow up and work my way through the ranks I will like loose cotroll at speed. I had this bad dream last week that I was running 3 SD70M's wih a mixed freight down a steep grde and I lost controll. Then we came to this really tight bend and just as we rolled off the rail I woke up breathing hard. I really wouldn't want that to happen. So I was just wondering if some of you engineers (which I put on a high pedastal) could give me any pointers. Thanks a lot, Justin S.

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Posted by favuprailroadfan on Monday, April 27, 2009 5:56 PM

 

Justin, I am a locomotive engineer and I will be the first one to tell you that running a 110 car grain train weighing 14,000 tons is alot easier to run than a 3 car local. I hate running the short trains that we sometimes have. Give me 3 units and 110 mty's or loads and I'll have an easy day. One of the most important things to remember is KNOW YOUR TERRITORY and the all important TRAIN HANDLING. Another thing you will have to learn is learning your air. That is why you lost control in your dream. You used all your air up. If you had 3 SD70M's, you should've had plently of dynamics, but that is only part of controlling your train. The rest is your air. But where I work at, we don't have dynamics so we have no choice but to use our air brakes. Its pretty simple. Oh and another thing, we don't drive trains, we operate. Always remember that.   Any more questions, hit me up, Dru ,Engineer Cimarron Valley Railroad
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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, April 27, 2009 7:02 PM

Virtually any idiot can handle a throttle....an Engineer knows how to handle the brakes.

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Posted by Randy Stahl on Monday, April 27, 2009 8:23 PM

Funny .. this is the dream I usually have right before I get married again ...

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Posted by petitnj on Monday, April 27, 2009 10:27 PM
Driving a train is easy if you:
1) Spend a few years over riding over the same division
2) Study the engine and braking systems
3) Learn at least two sets of rules (GCOR and USOR)
4) Get a Ph. D. in physics
5) Get yelled at for years as you try to understand things as you get hours on the throttle

See I told you it was easy.
And yes the comments about the air are important. Each time you use the train air brakes the reservoirs in the cars are partially s discharged. Unless you can leave the brakes in full release for about 5-8 minutes, even the cars in the shortest trains will not fully recharge. So each time you cycle the train brakes on and then off you are using up the air to stop the cars.
For short trains, the entire train is on the same up or down slope so braking is the same thru the whole train. Once the train gets longer than about 500 feet you can have part of the train going up hill and part going down. If the part going up is on the front the back will catch the front (unless you have the brakes on a little). If the part going up is in the back you have to keep the throttle on to keep the train stretched. Come ride with us and I will demonstrate the physics of trains and the magic of the Westinghouse air brake system. And dynamic brakes are cool (or rather hot when you use them), but you still have to keep the train from bunching and stretching.
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Posted by route_rock on Monday, April 27, 2009 10:36 PM

  LMAO Randy thats HIlarious!! Its all about how you handle everything, Brakes,power, dynamics and like they say in that famous play."Ya gotta know the territory!"

 

   I agree a long heavy train beats the short light ones.I have them nightmares too.One of my favorites was watching my engines hit a derail and flop on their sides all while my conductor was waving me back. Till the last one gets close and he says whoa stop looks like we lost a few.It happens, wait till you have the head on dream! Those are the best.

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Posted by Ulrich on Tuesday, April 28, 2009 7:20 AM

Everything is easy once you know how to do it. Operating  a train is "hard" if you've never done it before. Maybe the question to ask is "how much time in training does it typically take for someone to become profficient at operating a train"? Is it 30 hours?...100 hours? etc... It generally takes 25 to 40 hours to become reasonably competent at driving a tractor trailer...maybe the same for operating a train..maybe more.

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Posted by Rodney Beck on Tuesday, April 28, 2009 9:19 AM

Amen I am a locomotive engineer and I would much rather have a 19,000 ton coal train as oppoosed to a 2,000 ton local (I will work my back side off on the local), I have a lot of things on my mind when I am running and keeping (1) step ahead of the train. I agree anyone can be at the throttle but, after 22 weeks in the program I still had a few problems I still to date after (4) years of running I treat every trian I run as learning because no (2) trains the same tonnage operate the same.

 

Rodney

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Posted by bubbajustin on Tuesday, April 28, 2009 4:27 PM
Hi all! Thanks for all the helpfull info on the topic. When I grow up, and get ready to sighn on as an engineer, I will know better the dynamics on it all. It sounds like the breaks are more important than the throttle. Well that makes sence as starting a train would genarly be "eaiser" in most cases. I've learned on MSTS that it does help to know the route. That way you know where to hit the throttle and where the big down hill grades are. Now if I can just learn how to not damage the freight. Well thank you all for he helpfull hints. I am determende to one day be an engineer and "operate" a train in regular freight scervice.

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Posted by route_rock on Tuesday, April 28, 2009 5:05 PM

  BTW Justin how old are you?Plus remember if its your dream go out and live it. I wanted to be an engineer when I was 2 years old and finally got around to becoming one at 37.

  But when I was growing up it was the 70's and it was a horrible time for railroads.People called me crazy saying the rails would be gone before I could get out of grade school. I am so glad they were not correct.

 

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Posted by bubbajustin on Tuesday, April 28, 2009 7:23 PM
route_rock

  BTW Justin how old are you?Plus remember if its your dream go out and live it. I wanted to be an engineer when I was 2 years old and finally got around to becoming one at 37.

  But when I was growing up it was the 70's and it was a horrible time for railroads.People called me crazy saying the rails would be gone before I could get out of grade school. I am so glad they were not correct.

 

I am 13 years old and in 7th grade. I tell everyone that I WILL become a locootive engineer one day. And don't doubght it either. My fellow classmates tell me that one day trains will dry up. I say yah right! Rail trasport was the best in 1840 and will be the best in 2040. I think thay will be here for a while.

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Posted by fafnir242 on Wednesday, April 29, 2009 11:41 AM
I'm going to have to agree with everyone else.  I've only ever run one train in my life when I was 12, but it was just a four car train at the Monticello Railway Museum with their RS-3.  Not an easy chore.  If I didn't have someone watching over my shoulder telling me what to do, well one: it would have been a serious insurance liability if they hadn't, and two: I probably would have ended up derailing the train.  All the screwing around is probably best left to MSTS.lol
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Posted by favuprailroadfan on Wednesday, April 29, 2009 1:48 PM

 Justin, I'll tell you this right now that the train simulator stuff is nothing You have to have the feel of the train. Most engineers run by the seat of their pants, I do. I feel everything that the train is doing is what is going to happen. So, all you have to do is give it time, be patient, and work hard to acheive your goals. I was the same way you are now. I'm pretty sure that at the age of 18, if you want a railroad job, my boss will set you up. The way he does it is pretty simple. You work 2 years on the ground learning everything you need to know about switching, or it could be shorter than 2 years, it all depends on how fast you learn.We do all the training here. No schools, you get paid, while you learn. We do follow the General Code of Operating Rules (GCOR). So if you ever think about it, its the Cimarron Valley Railroad. Satanta Kansas.                                        Later, Dru

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Posted by Cricketer on Wednesday, April 29, 2009 3:24 PM

At the passenger end of things the basic rule is starting is easy, stopping is easy, stopping in the right place is hard. The right place generally means stations, but can also mean signals with limited overlaps. Most metro services have just a few feet of leeway, and even with modern braking systems a few feet when braking from 60mph is not easy.

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Posted by route_rock on Saturday, May 2, 2009 2:16 PM

  I heard all that at your age Justin and your right. They are  agreat way to move people and goods.

 

  Hey Dru you ever work with a guy named Barry?I know a guy out of KC on the IC&E who came from the Cimmaron Valley.Said he had a lot of fun out there.

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Posted by favuprailroadfan on Saturday, May 2, 2009 11:47 PM

 Yea, I know Barry. He is a hell of a guy and he is alot of fun to work with. I just talked to him just a couple of weeks ago. He stopped by my house here and we visited for about an hour discussing what he had been doing and how business is out here. So if you happen to see him, tell him I said HI. I do miss em out here. He was a good engineer.

 

                                                    Later, Dru

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Posted by route_rock on Sunday, May 3, 2009 12:24 PM

  Good to hear! Yeah we all got cut off up in teh Quad Cities so him and Matt ( kid that hired out of KC) Got LUCKY!

  We did have a lot of fun screwing with the new guys heads lol.

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Posted by bubbajustin on Monday, May 4, 2009 4:54 PM
Well that makes me fell a lot better about things. That does make scence feeling what the train is doing insted of guessing on MSTS. Too, don't the company train you to run there trains?

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Posted by favuprailroadfan on Tuesday, May 5, 2009 3:04 PM

 Yes, we do all the training here on the railroad and you get paid while doing it. So its a good way to get an early jump on things, instead of spending thousands on college tuition, like one of the guys here did. He's been here over 2 years already, and he is still on working on paying it back. All that is college is, is a waste of time and money. We teach the same things in more detail than what they do. So its something for you to think about in the future.

 

                                Dru

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Posted by bubbajustin on Tuesday, May 5, 2009 3:50 PM
That's what I've heared. Don't do to a choo choo school. The R.R. does payfor their own training right? So Dru, Is this a short line that you work for?

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Posted by bubbajustin on Wednesday, May 6, 2009 3:56 PM
Another question, Do you alway's have to keep the irons streched? BTW, route rock, I tried using the method of starting off you told me about. It worked really swell!

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Posted by favuprailroadfan on Saturday, May 9, 2009 2:06 PM

 Yes the Cimarron Valley is a short line. We operate 240 miles on the ex Santa Fe branch lines that run southwest of Dodge City Kansas to Boise City Oklahoma. We also run a line from Satanta to Springfield Colorado. We have a fleet of 8 units, 5 GP30's, ex-Rio Grande. A rebuilt GP30M, that was once part of the CSX and the only 2 GP26's ever built. These were once part of the GM&O. Starting in mid June through September, our grain season will kick into full gear. One of our customer has ordered cars on the tune of 156 grain cars every other day. These cars will all be going to one of our new shuttle facilities. Word has it, is that this facility, based in Hugoton Kansas, will be taking a 110 car shuttle train 7 days a week during the season. So yes, we are going to be very busy during this time. If you have any more questions, just ask and tell you what I can.

 

                                                       Dru

 

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Posted by CNTRAVLER on Saturday, May 9, 2009 2:40 PM

Justin ,

  It has possibly been addressed in another post , but , we do not DRIVE a locomotive . We OPERATE the engines and RUN the train . It may seem picky but you have to speek the language of the industry to be in the industry .

  Running a train is VERY difficult untill you know the territory . Learning all the mile posts , siding switches , permanent speed restrictions , dips , crests , and all of the other land marks needed to run in all types of weather . Down here on the Gulf Division of the former I C Railroad  fog is just about the worst possible weather we can run in . I HATE to run in the fog , because then I have to THINK about what I am doing . Normally when I start my run I have checked the train profile to see what kind of "WAUMPUS CAT" (low tonnage on the head-end and HIGH tonnage on the rear-end) train they have assembled for me . Gone through my TGBO (we operate in CTC territory)noteing any temporary speed restrictions , planned work limits , or any other restrictions . Checked with the Conductor to see where we need to stop to set-out or pick-up anything on line of road . Now I go into my TRAIN RUNNING mode , it is all REACTION from here to the final terminal . THINKING is not needed unless something out of the ordinary happens . It might not sound right but after doing it for so long you really do not need to think it all reaction , unless .

 In my opinion the trains(manifest) in the neighborhood of  1 ton per foot  are just about the best to run , but , I do like to occasionally get either a 14,000 ton grain train @ 5300 feet or a coal train of 19,000 tons @ 6,000 feet . Down here on this end of the R.R. THEY don't allow more than half of a horsepower per ton for empty unit trains . These trains are sooooooooooooooo boring , put it in throttle 8 , kick your feet up and blow the horn . My presonal best was 102 miles with out touching the throttle , cleared the siding at Natalbany ,La. and got to run 8 at M.P 854 and did not notch off till I passed through Hazlehurst Ms. and notched off at M.P.752 prepairing to take the siding at Crystal Springs , Ms. .

  Enough rattling on , to answer your question simply , IT IS NOT HARD TO RUN A TRAIN . (IF you are prepaired to do it ) . KNOWLEDGE , TRAINING , UNDERSTANDING , EDUCATION and more KNOWLEDGE and CONTINUING EDUCATION  are the key .

   Gotta go , BE AWARE < BE ALERT > ARRIVE UNHURT .           The Travler     DPH 

 

  

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Posted by route_rock on Monday, May 11, 2009 4:16 PM

  Hey glad that worked for you Justin. As for training I got all of mine from the BNSF. I was an off the street hire and my engineer card came from them.

  Now during my engineer training I was there where Choo Choo U is.Well for the BN anyway, NARS is on the same campus and in the same wing with us. Most said it was "implied" they would have jobs but not promised.So its all how it goes.

  After moving over to a short line I find I like it better.Just me

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Posted by bubbajustin on Saturday, May 16, 2009 9:30 AM
Hi All! RUN is the term I will use from now on. Hay traveler, That is some really good advece! Thx! Wow over 100 mi. without touching the throttle! Amazing! I have noticed that if you know the route it is mutch eisesr to run the train. You know what to do better. Like there at Callienti (I think that is how you say it) You have to got a run at he hill so you can make the clinb towards the summit of Tehachipi.

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, May 16, 2009 12:33 PM

CNTRAVLER
My presonal best was 102 miles with out touching the throttle , cleared the siding at Natalbany ,La. and got to run 8 at M.P 854 and did not notch off till I passed through Hazlehurst Ms. and notched off at M.P.752 prepairing to take the siding at Crystal Springs , Ms. .

CNTravler, are you based in McComb, or New Orleans?. Apparently, you run all the way from New Orleans to Gwin; am I correct? Forty years ago, the manifest freight crews ran either McComb-New Orleans-McComb or McComb-Gwin-McComb in the chain gang service. Obviously, they preferred to go north since it was a longer run. Passenger service was different. The engine crews ran McComb Canton-McComb and McComb-New Orleans-McComb; the train crews would be gone for twenty-four hours and then be home for twenty-four hours--except for the City, their runs were McComb-New Orleans-Canton-McComb (5-6-5, 3-8-3, or 25-4-25); the City crews ran McComb-Canton-New Orleans-McComb (2-1-2)--the difference came from the difference in layover times.

Johnny

Johnny

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Posted by wjstix on Monday, May 18, 2009 3:53 PM

Ulrich

Everything is easy once you know how to do it. Operating  a train is "hard" if you've never done it before. Maybe the question to ask is "how much time in training does it typically take for someone to become profficient at operating a train"? Is it 30 hours?...100 hours? etc... It generally takes 25 to 40 hours to become reasonably competent at driving a tractor trailer...maybe the same for operating a train..maybe more.

Like Hall-of-Famer Honus Wagner said, 'there's really not much to being a ballplayer...if you're a ballplayer".

Smile,Wink, & Grin

BTW Justin, you might want to look into volunteering at a local railroad museum that has some operating equipment. I believe you need to be 18 to operate or be in 'train service' on a museum / tourist RR but you might be able to do other things. Just being around engines and such will give you a leg up when it comes time to work on them for a living I would think.

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Posted by bubbajustin on Monday, May 18, 2009 4:08 PM

wjstix

Ulrich

Everything is easy once you know how to do it. Operating  a train is "hard" if you've never done it before. Maybe the question to ask is "how much time in training does it typically take for someone to become profficient at operating a train"? Is it 30 hours?...100 hours? etc... It generally takes 25 to 40 hours to become reasonably competent at driving a tractor trailer...maybe the same for operating a train..maybe more.

 

BTW Justin, you might want to look into volunteering at a local railroad museum that has some operating equipment. I believe you need to be 18 to operate or be in 'train service' on a museum / tourist RR but you might be able to do other things. Just being around engines and such will give you a leg up when it comes time to work on them for a living I would think.

Well, I really don't live near any touist/historical railroads. If I did I would. Do you think that my local class 1's might let me scrub locomotives down? That sounds fun to do. I like to see shiny locomotives!Big Smile

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Posted by wjstix on Thursday, May 21, 2009 11:18 AM

bubbajustin

Well, I really don't live near any touist/historical railroads. If I did I would. Do you think that my local class 1's might let me scrub locomotives down? That sounds fun to do. I like to see shiny locomotives!Big Smile

No, those dang 'child labor laws' might get in the way. Smile

In the old days things were a lot less formal. If a kid was big for his age and could pass for 18 he might apply for a job with a railroad right after getting his 8th grade diploma. I think Great Northern had a few engineers put in 56 years - start as trainee firemen at 14 and retire at 70.

Conversely, when the mandatory retirement age of 70 came in during the 1930's, there was a brief shortage of engineers and railroads had to promote firemen and hire new trainee firemen, since the mandatory retirement age forced so many engineers who were hanging on to good jobs into their 70's or 80's...even a few in their 90's I guess.

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Posted by bubbajustin on Thursday, May 21, 2009 3:04 PM

Awwe! Darn it! Ohh I wish the stupid govt. wouldn't do things like that.AngrySoapBoxGrumpy

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