Hey Ya'll.
On May 19th, the Union Pacific 844 and Southern Pacific 4449 Doubleheaded a train from Tocoma to Everett, Washington.
However, there was a flaw. Not with the mechanics, but with the appeirance of the 4449. UP is so extreme on the no foreign steam policy that it patched the 4449, with a very noticable yellow UP Patch with the number 845 on it.
Ha. Now thats something to laugh about there.
Cheese
Nick! :)
I don't know this for sure, but it is conceivable that U.P. alreadys has a locomotive with the number 4449 and in order to keep from there being any confusion in communications they applied a different number to that engine. Hate for a dispatcher to tell a train that they can proceed after engine number 4449 passes and the crew in the hole see the wrong engine and move before the way is actually clear.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
Oh,
Well, now that you mention that. I makes sense. I can forgive the UP now. LOL.
UP 4449 is a EMD SD70M built in 2001. Unless it has been wrecked, it is somewhere on the property.
I know a patch was made for 4449 and presented as sort of a gag, but there are a lot of pictures taken in the last week showing it running unpatched.
Yeah, her numberboards said X-844, but the cab and smokebox plate still said 4449. Besides, in the steam era this was common practice. If you look at the train from a 50's point of view, 4449 is the helper on train X-844, so it's required to display the train designation on it's numberboards, just like 844.
An instance of this was when UP 3985 and 844 doubleheaded a few years ago. 3985 was the "train" engine, and 844 was on the head end as a "helper". So 844 display "X3985" on it's numberboards, because that was the identidy of the train.
Ok, maybe someone else can explain it better.......
4884bigboy wrote: Yeah, her numberboards said X-844, but the cab and smokebox plate still said 4449. Besides, in the steam era this was common practice. If you look at the train from a 50's point of view, 4449 is the helper on train X-844, so it's required to display the train designation on it's numberboards, just like 844.An instance of this was when UP 3985 and 844 doubleheaded a few years ago. 3985 was the "train" engine, and 844 was on the head end as a "helper". So 844 display "X3985" on it's numberboards, because that was the identidy of the train.Ok, maybe someone else can explain it better....... nope ya got it........the numberboards having the train number and the marker flags\lights were what train crews tower ops and station workers would ID a train with....made railfanning back in the day easier too.....you knew if the train you were watching was the first or second section of the fastmail or the hotshot.....
nope ya got it........the numberboards having the train number and the marker flags\lights were what train crews tower ops and station workers would ID a train with....made railfanning back in the day easier too.....you knew if the train you were watching was the first or second section of the fastmail or the hotshot.....
As long as the UP lets the 4449 run on its main line, they paint the thing pink for all I care. No matter what the number and what the paint color are, it is still an operating steam engine, which is enough for me.
Bert
An "expensive model collector"
The SP-4449 doesn't BELONG to U.P., does it? It IS their railroad, but I didn't think they OWNED the 4449 Steam Locomotive.
They could force the owner to paint a different number of the side of the engine if they felt the present number would cause a problem with identification (what chance would there be of THAT!), and they can assign any number-board number they want for identification in the computerized list of operating power on their railroad (for those that can't actually "SEE", due to being deep in a windowless building a thousand miles from the rail line, that it is just a wee bit different than the 4449 Diesel).
n012944 wrote:As long as the UP lets the 4449 run on its main line, they paint the thing pink for all I care. No matter what the number and what the paint color are, it is still an operating steam engine, which is enough for me. Bert
These trips operated over BNSF -- therefore, SP 4449 did not operate on UP rails. The 4449 did traverse UP on its way home, but this deadhead move is entirely different from an excursion or revenue generating trip.
KL
nathansixchime wrote: n012944 wrote: As long as the UP lets the 4449 run on its main line, they paint the thing pink for all I care. No matter what the number and what the paint color are, it is still an operating steam engine, which is enough for me. Bert These trips operated over BNSF -- therefore, SP 4449 did not operate on UP rails. The 4449 did traverse UP on its way home, but this deadhead move is entirely different from an excursion or revenue generating trip. KL
n012944 wrote: As long as the UP lets the 4449 run on its main line, they paint the thing pink for all I care. No matter what the number and what the paint color are, it is still an operating steam engine, which is enough for me. Bert
What? Which is it? Is it "therefore, SP 4449 did not operate on UP rails" or "the 4449 did traverse UP on its way home"? Doesn't matter what kind of trip it was, the UP let the 4449 run on its rails, which it does not have to.
Don't over think it, Bert. Revenue generating excursions are TOTALLY different beasts from deadheads. UP's foreign steam policy relates to excursions only--not deadheads. The poster said the '49 didn't operate on UP with regards to the excursions, so it does matter what type of trip it is because deadheads are different.
Will
The UP is under no obligation to operate the 4449, or the 844 for that matter. Regardless of what kind of move it was, people should be grateful that the UP permitted the 4449 to run.
dredmann wrote:Yeah, her numberboards said X-844, but the cab and smokebox plate still said 4449.Perhaps I am mistaken, but you may be confusing the train number with the locomotive number. I suspect that the locomotive was SP 4449, and it was one of the two locomotives powering train X-844. The "X" is a common designator for "extra", IOW, not one of their usual moves. UP may very well designate any train with UP 844 on point as X-844. The number boards often angled to the left and right of the top front of the smokebox often show the train number.Ancient but well-known example: if you are familiar with the event / song, "The Wreck of the Old 97", you know that the 97 was not the locomotive (which was number 1132 or something?); the 97 was the train number, which was the number for the south-bound fast mail from Washington, D.C. to Atlanta, GA.
n012944 wrote: paint the thing pink for all I care.
paint the thing pink for all I care.
Don't have to? Yes they do! They're a common carrier and are required to take freight that's transfered to them.
n012944 wrote: What? Which is it? Is it "therefore, SP 4449 did not operate on UP rails" or "the 4449 did traverse UP on its way home"? Doesn't matter what kind of trip it was, the UP let the 4449 run on its rails, which it does not have to.Bert nathansixchime wrote:These trips operated over BNSF -- therefore, SP 4449 did not operate on UP rails. The 4449 did traverse UP on its way home, but this deadhead move is entirely different from an excursion or revenue generating trip. KL
nathansixchime wrote:These trips operated over BNSF -- therefore, SP 4449 did not operate on UP rails. The 4449 did traverse UP on its way home, but this deadhead move is entirely different from an excursion or revenue generating trip. KL
Mechanical Department "No no that's fine shove that 20 pound set all around the yard... those shoes aren't hell and a half to change..."
The Missabe Road: Safety First
dredmann wrote:Don't have to [accommodate SP 4449]? Yes they do! They're a common carrier and are required to take freight that's transfered [sic] to them.No. UP only has to take freight that meets interchange standards. I'm about 95% sure that a steam locomotive would not meet interchange standards. For one, as I recall, 4449 is not all roller bearings, and if so, that alone would disqualify it from meeting freight interchange standards. Also, if the locomotive had steam up, that would probably fail interchange standards. And regardless of bearing type, if it didn't have steam up, it would either not get lubrication to the cylinders (very bad) or else you would have to remove the rods. There are probably other issues too.Also, there's a big difference between hauling something as freight (presumably cold, in the middle of some freight train) versus letting it run under its own power (which is what 4449 typically does).
Bingo!!! Now if the 4449 group wanted to put the engine on a flat car, and PAY transportation as a high/wide load then the UP would be obligated for it. I would be willing to bet that the UP donated transportation costs on this move.
The #4449 is owned by the city of protland and the preservation group who runs her. UP has no right to do ANYTHING to this locomotive, and has no authority to change it's apperance or current construction.
UP does own the track though, and if they wanted to they can block the #4449 in it's shed. They could also, although it would be a PR nightmare, "steal" the #4449 by buttonholing it on some desolate siding and redflaging it. I'm not sure it would actually be legal or not, but they could lock it up somewhere and keep anybody from getting to it, if it was holed up in the right place.
On paper UP has to ship any car that meets FRA and ICC standards, but in practice they can pull enough tricks to do anything they want. Right now UP has a limited embargo on all passenger cars coming to Phoenix on their rails. I don't know the exact arrangment, but they won't switch passenger cars in Tucson onto Amtrak trains, and they will only bring passenger cars to Phoenix on UP through freights. UP is also loggerheading Amtrak on serving Phoenix. It seems they just don't want passenger equipment here.
Mimbrogno wrote: The #4449 is owned by the city of protland and the preservation group who runs her. UP has no right to do ANYTHING to this locomotive, and has no authority to change it's apperance or current construction.
The UP owns the SP reporting marks, however. It is well whithin its rights to have the 4449 use different reporting marks or number if it is using SP reporting marks.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.