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Trains in old movies but not necessarily train movies

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, May 12, 2020 6:50 AM

Penny Trains
Death, like the "Maschinenmensch" (Machine-man, the robot) was a costumed actor.  The costumes were made from "plastic wood" rolled flat and laid over a body casting of Brigitte Helm and sculpted.  (If I remember correctly she played all three parts.)  So they're not stop-motion.

I learn something every day.  For some reason I thought Death was too bony to have someone inside.  It would be highly notable that Helm knew how to play a wind instrument!

For those of us that can't play Flash video correctly, here is Penny's linked site:

http://kropserkel.com/robot.html

I have to think, though, that the 'unnamed Canadian stunt woman' is, in fact, the moral heir of Brigitte Helm and deserves to be recognized by name.

 

 

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Posted by M636C on Monday, May 11, 2020 8:45 PM

54light15

Last night I watched the 1956 film "Giant" with James Dean, Rock Hudson and Liz Taylor. There are some scenes of a Chesapeake and Ohio steam locomotive, not sure of the type, pulling 3 heavyweight passenger cars. Later there are shots of an F3? diesel. There are some interesting cars in it too, such as a Rolls-Royce touring car, a Duesenberg and an Isotta-Fraschini. 

 
I'm pretty sure that the locomotive was a Norfolk and Western 4-8-0, relettered for the movie. It may be the one now at Strasburg. I think the movie was made too late for C&O steam power, but N&W still had steam available.
 
Peter
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Posted by 54light15 on Monday, May 11, 2020 8:22 PM

Last night I watched the 1956 film "Giant" with James Dean, Rock Hudson and Liz Taylor. There are some scenes of a Chesapeake and Ohio steam locomotive, not sure of the type, pulling 3 heavyweight passenger cars. Later there are shots of an F3? diesel. There are some interesting cars in it too, such as a Rolls-Royce touring car, a Duesenberg and an Isotta-Fraschini. 

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Posted by Penny Trains on Monday, May 11, 2020 7:36 PM

Overmod
There may, if your information is correct, be an answer to a question I've wondered for over 50 years: what is the exact tune Death plays in the relevant scene? His bony fingers are doing one of the great pre-Harryhausen displays of stop-motion, but too quickly for me to figure out which notes he's sounding -- and I play the recorder. If there is a full orchestral score for that scene -- there will logically be some indication of what the animation is supposed to produce. Wouldn't it be nice if that documentation has survived?

It's a variation (interpretation? extrapolation? impression?) of the Dies Irae with a bit of xylophone played over top.  I'd link the clip, but the Maria-bot isn't exactly fully clothed.  Wink  The composer, Gottfried Huppertz:

   http://fimumu.com/huppertz/

...also sampled La Marseilaise.  It's his bandmaster's copy of the score that was used a few years back to create the best restoration of the film ever done:

There were notes on the sheet music that allowed them to figure out what scenes were supposed to be shown.  But with at least 25% of the original film missing and presumed lost forever (bombed out of existence), they filled in with title cards describing the action or an occasional production still if it fit well enough.

Death, like the "Maschinenmensch" (Machine-man, the robot) was a costumed actor.  The costumes were made from "plastic wood" rolled flat and laid over a body casting of Brigitte Helm and sculpted.  (If I remember correctly she played all three parts.)  So they're not stop-motion.

Check out this page for info on a 2016 recreation of the costume: http://kropserkel.com/metropolis.html

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by 54light15 on Sunday, May 10, 2020 11:54 PM

Near the end of Metropolis there is the scene of wrecked cars. Those are Rumpler Tropfenwagens, probably the first car ever to have aerodynamics incorporated into its design. Shaped like a raindrop when viewed from above. That makes sense as Edmund Rumpler was an aircraft engineer in Germany and designed the Taube monoplane. There is one in the main Deutsches Museum in Munich as well as a Tropfenwagen in their transport annex near where they hold the Oktoberfest. The Tropfenwagen was miles ahead of any other car made at the time and remains one of the most slippery cars ever built. Not bad for 1921. 

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, May 10, 2020 8:17 PM

Penny Trains
The trains of Metropolis:

Penny, pan down.  The trains run in that brilliantly-lit canyon at the bottom.  You are looking at a transit line, not even a subway.

There may, if your information is correct, be an answer to a question I've wondered for over 50 years: what is the exact tune Death plays in the relevant scene?  His bony fingers are doing one of the great pre-Harryhausen displays of stop-motion, but too quickly for me to figure out which notes he's sounding -- and I play the recorder.  If there is a full orchestral score for that scene -- there will logically be some indication of what the animation is supposed to produce.  Wouldn't it be nice if that documentation has survived?

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, May 10, 2020 8:05 PM

Penny Trains
Orchestras, dramatic readings, color.  It's easy to see that many of the ideas we have about old films are misconceptions of hindsight.

Absolutely true!  Toward the end of the silent era many of those films hit an amazing level of technical sophistication.

Sound put a cramp on everyone's style for a time as the camera became a slave to the microphone, but that didn't last too long.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, May 10, 2020 7:45 PM

Paul of Covington

 

 
Flintlock76
Yeah, I'd say Mel's film was the last silent, at least the last major silent.

 

   OK, it's time to start a feud.  Silent Movie does not qualify as a silent movie because there was one word spoken in it.

 

Yep!  Spoken by Marcel Marceau!  Clown

Mind you, that condition should also disqualify "Modern Times" due to Chaplin's song and dance routine, but most film historians would disagree.  

Here's Charlie's routine from "Modern Times."  He gives himself a lot more spoken words than Marcel Marceau got in "Silent Movie!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FIt4g9fgcg  

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Posted by Paul of Covington on Sunday, May 10, 2020 7:24 PM

Flintlock76
Yeah, I'd say Mel's film was the last silent, at least the last major silent.

   OK, it's time to start a feud.  Silent Movie does not qualify as a silent movie because there was one word spoken in it.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, May 10, 2020 7:03 PM

The trains of Metropolis:

It's interresting to note that for major films such as Metropolis, there was a full orchestra playing the music and the actors were there performing their film lines in front of the screen at the film's premier.  January 10, 1927 in Berlin:

Local theaters didn't really exist in those days, at least not everywhere.  Here's Munich in August of 27:

It's also interresting to note that this film was one of the first done in black and white.  Previously most movies released in Germany had all been hand tinted color films. 

Orchestras, dramatic readings, color.  It's easy to see that many of the ideas we have about old films are misconceptions of hindsight.

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, May 10, 2020 5:57 PM

Chaplin's last silent film was "Modern Times," which was done in 1936, although Chaplin does a brief sound musical number toward the end of the film.  I'm pretty sure "Modern Times" was the last silent film until Mel Brooks' movie came along.

Yeah, I'd say Mel's film was the last silent, at least the last major silent.  Who knows how many indie films were done silent that no-one remembers?

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Posted by 54light15 on Sunday, May 10, 2020 4:37 PM

I've always wondered when the last real silent movie was made. I know Chaplin still made silents I think almost until he made The Great Dictator. Would Mel Brook's Silent Movie count? 

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Posted by NDG on Sunday, May 10, 2020 2:04 PM
A Movie that Barks?
 
Train after time 10:10.
 
 

Thank You.

 

P.S.

 

There is another filmed on the Southern Pacific when showing the Obligatory Cab Scene, the Fireman is Hand Firing an Oil Burner.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, May 10, 2020 11:47 AM

It's a bit of a misnomer to call "The Jazz Singer" the first "talkie," in reality it was a "semi-talkie."  Jolson's musical numbers had sound, with some  spoken dialog, but the film was mostly silent otherwise.  More semi-talkies followed.

The first all-talking film was "Lights Of New York," released by Warner Brothers in 1928.  

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Posted by Paul of Covington on Sunday, May 10, 2020 11:39 AM

NP Eddie

I saw the "Jazz Singer" last week. There are two great shots of two ATSF passenger locomotives passing Al Jolson in a passenger station.

 

Ed Burns

 

   I remember the scene with the great big beautiful locomotive passing by, spouting steam and smoke, but not making a sound.  This being an early "talkie", I figured it didn't occur to them to include the sound.   There was just music playing.

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Posted by NP Eddie on Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:55 AM

I saw the "Jazz Singer" last week. There are two great shots of two ATSF passenger locomotives passing Al Jolson in a passenger station.

 

Ed Burns

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Posted by M636C on Sunday, May 10, 2020 12:43 AM

I've mentioned this in another thread, but I watched "Death of Stalin" last night.

Trains play an important part in the plot, but are represented only by a static shot of a train hauled by an Su 2-6-2 with mourners boarding to go to Moscow.

It is a very funny movie but appears to be historically correct

https://www.imdb.com/video/vi4196972825?playlistId=tt4686844&ref_=vp_rv_ap_0

I'd seen it before, but I was able to pick up many points I'd missed on the first viewing.

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Posted by ORNHOO on Friday, May 8, 2020 11:06 AM

CSSHEGEWISCH
The best variation on "everybody did it" was on "CSI" a number of years ago.  A washed-up old pug was found dead of apparent foul play in a Wild West theme park. The investigation found that the victim had been beat up, knifed and a few other things by a number of people individually and independently at separate times.  Nobody could be charged with homicide since each act was not fatal in and of itself but the string of acts taken collectively killed him.

The episode was titles "Ending Happy",and I like your definition of "Wild West theme park".

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Posted by York1 on Friday, May 8, 2020 10:38 AM

Years ago a friend rode the train from eastern Europe to Italy, and the Orient Express to Paris.  She then flew to the U.S. on the Concorde.

Somewhere in Italy or Paris, there was an Orient Express shop of some kind.  She had them send these two Orient Express lamps to us.

I've looked at pictures, and it looks like the lamps are close to what was on the trains at that time, but not quite the same.  I don't normally like this kind of style, but I like these.

 

York1 John       

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, May 8, 2020 10:13 AM

CSSHEGEWISCH
Nobody could be charged with homicide since each act was not fatal in and of itself but the string of acts taken collectively killed him.

I believe in some jurisdictions each and every 'perpetrator' contributing to what eventuates as a death can equally be charged with homicide or manslaughter as appropriate.  I remember offhand a number of cases where someone who only 'watched' a triggerman or other such person actually kill were prosecuted, and perhaps sentenced to execution, despite not even laying a hand on the victim; contributing to battery is surely less exemptive a test than that.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, May 8, 2020 10:09 AM

The best variation on "everybody did it" was on "CSI" a number of years ago.  A washed-up old pug was found dead of apparent foul play in a Wild West theme park. The investigation found that the victim had been beat up, knifed and a few other things by a number of people individually and independently at separate times.  Nobody could be charged with homicide since each act was not fatal in and of itself but the string of acts taken collectively killed him.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, May 7, 2020 7:33 PM

Penny Trains

Murder on the Orient Express spoiler alert!

EVERYBODY DID IT!  Laugh

 

Kind of like one of the best "NCIS" episodes ever a few years back!  ALL the "red herrings" did it!

Hey, wait a minute!  Didn't Monsieur Poirot also say there was the possibility an assassin stowed away on the train and wasted Richard Widmark's character, an American gangster on the run, and then jumped off when the train was stalled by the heavy snow?   Hmmmmm...   Whistling

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Posted by Penny Trains on Thursday, May 7, 2020 6:36 PM

Murder on the Orient Express spoiler alert!

EVERYBODY DID IT!  Laugh

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by 54light15 on Thursday, May 7, 2020 4:46 PM

I sure as hell didn't know that about KAOS- pretty cool, I'd say. Get Smart was funny as hell. Whenever Maxwell Smart was up against a "Mr. Big," it was either a woman or a midget.  

I could have a Murder on the Orient Express on my layout- I have a train of those "Wagon Lits" coaches. Also the earlier version of the OE similar to the one dining car where the armistice was signed in 1918. 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, May 7, 2020 2:36 PM

Check out the 1974 version of "Murder On The Orient Express" for some outstanding "out the window" shots.

And no damn CGI locomotive in that one either!  

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Thursday, May 7, 2020 12:39 PM

M636C

 

 
BaltACD

 

 
Overmod
The problem is in tight alternating dialogue shots where one 'view' is out the train window.  When the director doesn't pay attention to what is outside the window during takes, you're like as not to see boxcars speeding past, then one remark later, nothing; then 15 seconds later speeding passenger cars... it gets to the point VERY quickly not just that your attention seizes on the 'backdrop' action, but you actually start dreading what you will see and how it's an artifact of poor production rather than clever train operation or the chance to see historical railroad details.

 

That screws up virtually every scene where movement of a vehicle is a part of the scene - no matter the form of movement - walking, running, being in a motor vehicle, train or for that matter airplanes.  Continuity directors have to be on the top of their game to keep the scenes 'continuous' especially when it has taken more that a single take to get the overall scene accomplished.

 

 

 

One movie where the out of window shots seemed good to me was Hitchcock's North by Northwest where they even had a recognisable correct route. However in the arrival scenes at Chicago the stars end up walking past the E units at the head of the train at least twice with quite a lot of dialogue between.

Peter

 

Great observation of detail. One of my favorites of Hitch.

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, May 7, 2020 11:48 AM

KAOS has no periods.  Think of it as a clever marketing name like Boxpok.

Betcha didn't know it is a Delaware corporation for tax purposes...

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Posted by 54light15 on Thursday, May 7, 2020 10:15 AM

Back to "Get Smart." His arch-enemy, Ziegfried worked for an evil group called, "K.A.O.S." What did that stand for, if anything? 

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Posted by M636C on Thursday, May 7, 2020 8:37 AM

BaltACD

 

 
Overmod
The problem is in tight alternating dialogue shots where one 'view' is out the train window.  When the director doesn't pay attention to what is outside the window during takes, you're like as not to see boxcars speeding past, then one remark later, nothing; then 15 seconds later speeding passenger cars... it gets to the point VERY quickly not just that your attention seizes on the 'backdrop' action, but you actually start dreading what you will see and how it's an artifact of poor production rather than clever train operation or the chance to see historical railroad details.

 

That screws up virtually every scene where movement of a vehicle is a part of the scene - no matter the form of movement - walking, running, being in a motor vehicle, train or for that matter airplanes.  Continuity directors have to be on the top of their game to keep the scenes 'continuous' especially when it has taken more that a single take to get the overall scene accomplished.

 

One movie where the out of window shots seemed good to me was Hitchcock's North by Northwest where they even had a recognisable correct route. However in the arrival scenes at Chicago the stars end up walking past the E units at the head of the train at least twice with quite a lot of dialogue between.

Peter

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, May 6, 2020 10:20 PM

Overmod
The problem is in tight alternating dialogue shots where one 'view' is out the train window.  When the director doesn't pay attention to what is outside the window during takes, you're like as not to see boxcars speeding past, then one remark later, nothing; then 15 seconds later speeding passenger cars... it gets to the point VERY quickly not just that your attention seizes on the 'backdrop' action, but you actually start dreading what you will see and how it's an artifact of poor production rather than clever train operation or the chance to see historical railroad details.

That screws up virtually every scene where movement of a vehicle is a part of the scene - no matter the form of movement - walking, running, being in a motor vehicle, train or for that matter airplanes.  Continuity directors have to be on the top of their game to keep the scenes 'continuous' especially when it has taken more that a single take to get the overall scene accomplished.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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