Lithonia Operator SD70Dude Want to grab oat milk lattes and discuss how inconvenient a truth global warming is? Cool! Definitely. Can I invite Al Gore to come along? (He invented the Internet, so he could probably help us set up a secret private server for emails.)
SD70Dude Want to grab oat milk lattes and discuss how inconvenient a truth global warming is?
Want to grab oat milk lattes and discuss how inconvenient a truth global warming is?
The more the merrier!
I've been meaning to ask him for some help getting rid of the ManBearPig (look it up) that is hanging around here anyway.
A private server is always the best place to keep sensitive material, everyone knows that!
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
I can't watch the video now, as my wife is sleeping six inches away. But what I'm hoping it's about is that the railroad has gone to burning oil in the engines.
That line is a national treasure and must survive.
I love it! Thanks SD70. I love watching a steam engine start up blasting steam out the cylinder cocks. I loved the sound of the turntable engine.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
Anyway, the real reason I visited this thread was to post this link. A new smell now hangs over Durango:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzLuIN97qDw
Lithonia Operator Yet another gratuitous dig at liberals in these forums.
Yet another gratuitous dig at liberals in these forums.
You can always report it to the mods. But then the thread might get locked, and you, I, and rrnut all could get banned or put on moderation. It's not a big inconvenience, I'll just come back as SaskatchewanRiverTrail or something like that....
As one who lives red-orange in a blue Province, I feel your pain (our colours are the opposite of yours).
Euclid The Forest Service had the power and duty to prohibit the use of coal burning locomotives during high fire danger, and they failed to do that. I don’t believe that assessment is unfair to the Forest Service. Actually, I believe they are being grossly unfair to D&S. There is bitter opposition to the D&S, and without any evidence, they write letters to the editor claiming it to be a fact that D&S started the fire. Obviously, the Forest Service shares their attitude. They have presented no facts that prove D&S started the fire, and yet they use their unlimited legal resources to wage a legal battle that D&S cannot win. The honest conclusion on the part of the Forest Service would have been that they could not determine the cause of the fire. Even those railfan neighborhood volunteer fire fighters claim it to be a fact that the fire was ignited by a D&S train. They offer no direct evidence, just that they know it to be true. If they don’t know for sure, why is it so important to have a position on the matter that they are willing to unfairly reach that conclusion? There is something wrong when a person claims something has to be true because they just know it.
The Forest Service had the power and duty to prohibit the use of coal burning locomotives during high fire danger, and they failed to do that. I don’t believe that assessment is unfair to the Forest Service. Actually, I believe they are being grossly unfair to D&S.
There is bitter opposition to the D&S, and without any evidence, they write letters to the editor claiming it to be a fact that D&S started the fire. Obviously, the Forest Service shares their attitude. They have presented no facts that prove D&S started the fire, and yet they use their unlimited legal resources to wage a legal battle that D&S cannot win. The honest conclusion on the part of the Forest Service would have been that they could not determine the cause of the fire.
Even those railfan neighborhood volunteer fire fighters claim it to be a fact that the fire was ignited by a D&S train. They offer no direct evidence, just that they know it to be true. If they don’t know for sure, why is it so important to have a position on the matter that they are willing to unfairly reach that conclusion? There is something wrong when a person claims something has to be true because they just know it.
Both railroads have been slow to apply modern contrivances on their locomotives to maintain the 'historic fabric' of the equipment. Once it's gone it's most likely gone forever. That said, personally, I think conversion to oil burning is the least intrusive solution, if they can afford it. I will miss the grand aroma of coal smoke and valve oil while enjoying the view.
Whatever happened to the two diesels that they were supposedly having built?
SD70DudeFrom what I have read Silverton is much more dependent on the tourism that the railroad attracts. This could make for an interesting Springfield vs Shelbyville type fight in the future.
I would agree that Silverton is in a different world than Durango.
MidlandMike I have been to Durango recently, and the area seems to be more about second-home-in-the-mountain real estate than tourist train dependance. I fear for the D&S.
I have been to Durango recently, and the area seems to be more about second-home-in-the-mountain real estate than tourist train dependance. I fear for the D&S.
From what I have read Silverton is much more dependent on the tourism that the railroad attracts. This could make for an interesting Springfield vs Shelbyville type fight in the future.
The US Forest Service maintains a vast network of forest roads. They are used in fire suppression, timber sales, and recreation access. I would guess they would love to have access to the largely inaccessable Animas Canyon. The roads are used by the public for hiking, camping, hunting, fishing, boat access, biking, x-country skiing, ATV's, horseback, etc. A tourist rail line is not really in their wheelhouse. Maybe they are thinking of accepting the ROW as compensation in lieu of the fire costs.
GERALD L MCFARLANE JR..and as someone else pointed out, the cinders are cooled off with a water spray anyways.
Except for the ones they missed. Or the ones that smolder unnoticed, like the match heads Smokey Bear told us to be sure to 'hold 'til cold'.
One such, according to the Federal fact-finding, started the 416 Fire.
The idea of killing everything dangerous was behind the original Salk vaccine, too, and likewise it didn't always work. There are often better arrangements than that. In the case of steam locomotives, one such arrangement is to eliminate sparks from either the stack or the grate -- oil firing reduces much of the spark and crud danger, and pressurized-oil firing reduces any potential flaming dribble or droplets.
You're right that it isn't the Government's job to prevent operation during fire time. That's the job of plaintiff's bar in the courts once harm can be effectively (if not fairly or reasonably) established, and of course that's going to be where the judgments of concern to the current D&S operation will be. It's also a sure concern for any successor organization that thinks freedom is the same thing as liberty without reasonable regard for consequences.
I also agree that 'punitive damages' aren't really warranted here; it's a plea for political advantage at low effective cost. Those are for continued depraved indifference, not accidental omission of proven attempts at safe practice even when rooted in wrong ideas.
CSSHEGEWISCH The Monarch Branch continued as an isolated narrow-gauge stub until it was converted to standard gauge in 1955. My January 1953 copy of the OG also shows several other narrow-gauge lines in Rio Grande's entry although they may have been on the verge of abandonment.
The Monarch Branch continued as an isolated narrow-gauge stub until it was converted to standard gauge in 1955.
My January 1953 copy of the OG also shows several other narrow-gauge lines in Rio Grande's entry although they may have been on the verge of abandonment.
The entire "Narrow Guage Circle" was intact after the end of WWII, includng Alamosa-Salida-Montrose-Ouray, Crested Butte and Baldwin branches, and the RGS. Most of this was gone between 1949 and 1954.
azrail USFS is a part of the Ag Dept.
USFS is a part of the Ag Dept.
That's correct, but it's about time that is was moved under the Department of the Interior...you know, the agency responsible for all Federal lands and there use.
Also, as far as I know they really couldn't restrict the D&S from running their engines during high fire danger...and as someone else pointed out, the cinders are cooled off with a water spray anyways.
daveklepper In a water-cooling smokestack the exhaust passes through a pipe surrounded by water that is continually circulated through cooling fins located elsewhere on the (usually a side) of the locomotive.
That won't work worth a damn on actual 'sparks', and has been known not to since around the turn of the 20th Century.
These are particulates that are heated well above 'ignition' temperature but have passed through the tubes/flues and through the front end, not actively burning due to the effective reduction atmosphere in the gas space. If they pass through the screens in the 'self-cleaning' front end the particles may be triturated or broken to expose fresh surface or unevaporated volatile matter. When these are ejected and pass out of the steam blast, they mix freely with air and can quickly progress not just to incandescence but actual flame generation. The very short TOF through a putatively soot-insulated pipe on the other side of a boundary layer re-established at each 'chuff' will NOT have any effect worth noting.
What you have instead is a diamond-stack principle, where a screen over the exhaust quenches combustion in small particles (the same way a screen precludes gas ignition in a miner's lamp) while redirecting larger ones 'out and down' into the hopper represented by the 'balloon' or expanded shape of the stack. (The actual 'chimney', of normal stovepipe or tapered proportions, is hidden inside the outer casing just as a waist or legs gets concealed in forms of skirt.) If you look at the Isaac Dripps 'Monster' you can see some of the construction details involved in such a thing recognized at a very early stage of locomotive practice. This requires additional energy in the 'blast' to get the same combustion-gas flow characteristics, but that is relatively easily arranged through front-end design and willingness to adjust cutoff or tolerate higher back pressure.
Where the 'water cooling' comes in is that sparks separated into the hopper are still at elevated temperature, and can warp the metal of which the hopper is made 'enough' to allow air leaks at seams and hatches. This will rapidly introduce stack-like convection through the mass, reignite any unburned carbon, and cause more trouble than anyone would want. The effective place to implement water-cooling is here, in the stack bottom.
If you could adequately filter out the effect of any critical 'fines' having to pass through a circulating pump or radiating pipes, the easiest way to accomplish cooling is indeed to circulate water -- but through a water pool or adequate form of heat exchanger in direct contact with sparks that have come to rest after separation.
There is an alternative version that we've talked about in the past, which uses a 'ring manifold' and nozzles at the top rim of the stack to spray active water (probably not steam except in evaporation or entrainment) to quench actual radiant heat. I don't think that with the advent of better water quality or chemical treatment of feedwater -- or the growing recognition of decreasing a big or fast locomotive's effective water rate -- these things saw long service, although you will see them on unexpected locomotives sometimes.
https://www.denverpost.com/2017/10/08/ole-locomotive-no-476-back-in-service-durango-railroad-winter/
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
daveklepper The Durango and Silverton is the Silverton branch, from Durango to Silverton, of the Denver and Rio Grande Western. The other narrow gauge lines of the D&RGW that were still running after WWII were from Alamosa to Durango, with dual gauge, still operating as standard gauge, Alamosa to Antonito; plus the narrow-gauge Durangno - Farmington, NM. line. The other remnant of this post WWII narrow-gauge system is the Cumbres and Toltec, running between Antonito and Chama. In a water-cooling smokestack the exhaust passes through a pipe surrounded by water that is continually circulated through cooling fins located elsewhere on the (usually a side) of the locomotive.
The Durango and Silverton is the Silverton branch, from Durango to Silverton, of the Denver and Rio Grande Western. The other narrow gauge lines of the D&RGW that were still running after WWII were from Alamosa to Durango, with dual gauge, still operating as standard gauge, Alamosa to Antonito; plus the narrow-gauge Durangno - Farmington, NM. line. The other remnant of this post WWII narrow-gauge system is the Cumbres and Toltec, running between Antonito and Chama.
In a water-cooling smokestack the exhaust passes through a pipe surrounded by water that is continually circulated through cooling fins located elsewhere on the (usually a side) of the locomotive.
Thanks, Dave.
How do the water-cooled stack work?
Many years ago I saw the DRGW narrow-gauge steam-powered train. Is the D&S the exact same line?
The potheads in Denver who run Colorado don't give a damn about what happens West of the Rockies, IMHO
The Forest Service and National Park Service are separate entities.
Possibly I am making a mistake. Is the Forest Service part of the Nstional Parks Administration or separate?
Should not some Colorado residents who do care to see the raiilroad survive write the Director of the National Park Service and ask:
Is the intent of the law suite to shut down the railroad so the RoW can become a trail? With part of the proceeds from the suite used to convert the RoW to a trail?
If so, what is the expected usage of the trail annually. Will it be more than 1/10th of the number of people viewing Animas Canyon from the trains? And how many will be able to hike the entire length of the trail?
Won't the conversion prevent the portion of the USA population and foreign visitors who are old, or infirm, or handicapped from enjoying the spectacular scenery?
Is such a result in line with the stated goals of the National Park Service?
If I were to write the letter (should I?), I probably would want copy the Mayors of both Silvereton and Durango, and Colorado's Governor and two Senators.
BaltACDVideo of the D&S of recent vintage. Note the 'water cooled' stack devices being used to eliminate high temperature cinders escaping from the locomotive's stack.
Fascinating video. Thanks, Balt. I've long been curious about the odd looking stacks.
Video of the D&S of recent vintage.
Note the 'water cooled' stack devices being used to eliminate high temperature cinders escaping from the locomotive's stack.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gby0PywaDIw
You're right on Overmod, the same thought's crossed my mind as well, but you put it a bit more eloquently.
A government entity with (almost) unlimited "deep pockets" going after a private organization, with the ultimate aim being a plea-bargain plus a fine to end the whole sordid mess.
Oh, the "unpopular-with-local-voters" thing? That more than likely a minority of local noise-buckets who haven't stopped to think of the money the D&S brings to the local economy. I'm sure a majority of Durango residents are sharp enough to know what side their bread's buttered on.
What could replace it in that neck of the woods that would bring the money in? Legalized gambling? Well, if that's what they want they'd do well to remember the old saying "Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it!"
I've been to Colorado several times, and one town that went the legalized gambling route was Cripple Creek. Sure, the town's making tons of money, but now property costs are so high no-one can afford to live there! Got it straight from some disgusted locals.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.