I believe that Houma also had a mooring mast for US Navy airships during WW2.
DeggestyI had never thought of Houma as being a place for shipfitting. The two times that I was there, in the fifties, I was visiting a great-uncle who had been charge of the growing the cane on a sugar plantation. He and his niece, who kept house for him, still lived in the plantation house.
It was in the fifties that offshore oil exploration took off, and shipyards and maintenance facilities sprang up all along the rivers, bayous and canals in support of the industry. And that was in addition to the big fisheries already there.
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"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
I had never thought of Houma as being a place for shipfitting. The two times that I was there, in the fifties, I was visiting a great-uncle who had been charge of the growing the cane on a sugar plantation. He and his niece, who kept house for him, still lived in the plantation house.
I was told that when my great-uncle was young, he assisted in laying out the SAL below Petersburg. I do not know what he did; carried the chain, perhaps?
Johnny
mudchicken Deggesty Concerning steamships that now serve as fast hotels (fast to the dock) has anyone else styed at the Delta King in Sacramento? It, along with the Delta Queen, (which migrated to the Mississippi and Ohio Rivers) were built for overnight service between Sacramento and San Francisco. My wife and I spent a night there several years ago. Johnny - Yes (twice)...and the Delta Queen appears to be on the way towards getting a new lease on life. Now refitting at Houma, LA Greene Line wharf rat in a past life...
Deggesty Concerning steamships that now serve as fast hotels (fast to the dock) has anyone else styed at the Delta King in Sacramento? It, along with the Delta Queen, (which migrated to the Mississippi and Ohio Rivers) were built for overnight service between Sacramento and San Francisco. My wife and I spent a night there several years ago.
Concerning steamships that now serve as fast hotels (fast to the dock) has anyone else styed at the Delta King in Sacramento? It, along with the Delta Queen, (which migrated to the Mississippi and Ohio Rivers) were built for overnight service between Sacramento and San Francisco. My wife and I spent a night there several years ago.
Johnny - Yes (twice)...and the Delta Queen appears to be on the way towards getting a new lease on life. Now refitting at Houma, LA
Greene Line wharf rat in a past life...
The new iteration is owned by the American Steamboat Lines- The American Queen... See video @ https://www.americanqueensteamboatcompany.com/brochures/view-online/?utm_source=Bing&utm_medium=search&utm_campaign=NB-Search-Beta-Geo&utm_keyword=%2Bmississippi%20%2Bqueen%20%2Bsteamboat&utm_creative=Special2017-2018Offers-Best-AwardWinningExcursions&utm_network=o&utm_device=c&utm_content=BrochurePage
Modern,new, sternwheeler. Saving now for a trip!
Thanks for that RME, I've never heard that one by Gordon before. Not as good as "Edmund Fitzgerald", but very melodic and haunting just the same.
54light15 ... the Yarmouth Castle fire in 1965. It became illegal to operate a ship in commercial service with wooden decks and superstructure.
Ah, the "No Pope" story! I first heard that from my grandfather, my mother's father, over 50 years ago. He was Irish, and Catholic as well, and talk about mixed feelings! He was proud that grand ship was built in Ireland, he was a young man in his twenties at the time, but thought those Protestant Ulstermen had it coming when she sank because of that yard number that reflected "No Pope."
The thing is, it wasn't true. Titanic's yard number was 401, and her Board of Trade official number was 131,428. Scuttlebutt had it the official number was 3909 04, which does spell out NO POPE if you hold it up to a mirror and fudge the "4", but again, the scuttlebutt was false.
Anyway Lord Pirrie, the head of the Harland and Wolff shipyard had no use for any religious bigotry and wouldn't tolerate it in his yards. Anyone who could do the work was welcome, Protestant or Catholic. On the other hand, right across the River Lagan from Harland and Wolff was another shipyard that just gloried in religious bigotry and launched many if not all it's ships with "NO POPE" painted on the sides. So, it wasn't too much of a leap for the rumor mills in the rest of Ireland to blame Harland and Wolff for the "NO POPE" slur from that second-string yard who no-one had ever heard of.
It is true that the White Star Line didn't go in for christening it's ships. "They justs builds 'em and shoves 'em in!" said a shipyard matey. However, White Star and Harland and Wolff did make a big party out of the launch for all involved, christening or not. And a great time was had by all!
Firelock76True story.
Yep! Another bit of ship lore was the fact that it wasn't White Star custom to Christen it's ships. Which was further enhanced by the fact that Titanic's yard number appeared to spell out "NO POPE" when reflected in the water.
Trains, trains, wonderful trains. The more you get, the more you toot!
Then there were a group of stokers who stayed a little too late and hoisted a little too many at a Southampton England pub called "The Bunch of Grapes."
They ran like mad down to the dock just as the ship was casting off and pleaded to be let aboard but the mate at the gangway hatch refused them, "Rules was rules!" They stood there cursing their bad luck as they'd been out of work for weeks due to a coal strike and really needed the job.
Bad luck? Six or so days later they must have wondered who was watching out for them. The ship was (wait for it!) the RMS Titanic.
True story.
One of the major reasons that the lake steamers went away was due to the Yarmouth Castle fire in 1965. It became illegal to operate a ship in commercial service with wooden decks and superstructure. I'd love to see the Keewatin running again, (I've been on it, it's beautiful) but that's not going to happen.
I once painted a house for a man. One day I showed up late; he wasn't upset. he was a retired merchant sailor. He said that he was supposed to sign on to a ship but his mother didn't wake him up so the ship sailed without him. Soon after he read in the paper about the ship he missed. The Morro Castle was a smoking hulk beached at Asbury Park and ever since, being late for anything was not something he ever got angry about.
........the story of the acquisition of the S.S. Keewatin and the S.S. Assiniboia really begins with Russia’s Tsarist autocracy and the revolution of 1905. The Tsar commissioned two ships from Fairfield Shipbuilding and Engineering in Scotland, often known as Fairfields, a company responsible for the creation of other impressive vessels including the R.M.S. Empress of Ireland, the R.M.S. Empress of Britain, the S.S. Athenia and many other cruisers, battleships, and passenger ships. In 1905 mass political and social unrest spread throughout the Russian Empire, and led to a number of constitutional reforms. As a result, the Tsar could no longer afford to take the ships he had commissioned. Fairfields was in need of a new buyer.
In an attempt to sell the ships they contacted the CPR who had already purchased the Alberta, the Athabasca, and the Algoma from another Scottish shipbuilding company in 1883. These three ships also have a unique history. In 1883, they travelled across the Atlantic from Scotland to Canada without issue. Once in Montreal the three ships were cut in half at the Cantin shipyards to ensure they could fit through the St. Lawrence and Welland Canals and were reassembled when they reached Buffalo.
Mr. Duff of the CPR was contacted by Fairfields about the Russian-ordered ships. While he knew they were too long for transport he also knew that they could potentially be cut in half just as the previous ships were. Canadian Pacific Rail decided to purchase the ships.
Figures 4 and 5: Assiniboia at Davey Shipyard, Lauzon (Lévis) Quebec, 1907
While the ships were completely finished and ready for use when they left Scotland, there was a four month delay once they arrived in Lauzon (now Lévis) where they were cut in half and prepped for their journey. After reassembly at the Buffalo Dry Dock Company in the summer of 1907, they reached the Colchester Channel in western Lake Erie in December.
This area presented a notoriously cold, shallow, and dangerous passage. To help ships navigate, markers were placed in the water during shipping season. However, in the winter the markers were removed because they were generally shifted by ice and therefore rendered ineffective. This posed a serious problem; whoever was chosen to navigate these ships was going to have to do it without the help of the markers.
Penny- Thanks for the video. Very emotional and terrific story.
Port McNicoll has suffered badly. It really went downhill. The Great Lake steamers stopped, the trains stopped, the grain elevators were shut down. It had such a rich and vibrant past.
The return of the Keewatin is truly inspiring and best of luck to them and their new direction in developing a retirement and recreational destitnation.
Worth a visit to go see the Keewatin.
RMEEmissions are likely not the elephant-in-the-room problem. That is a sophisticated and VERY large steam plant, using an enormous amount of very proprietary technology that hasn't been marketed or made in many decades.
I agree with you there that steam emissions isn't a prime factor. I would guess that the real issue is insurance. Think of how tough the excursion universe got after Gettysburg. A boiler explosion (a very, very low probability) on a mainline RR excursion probably wouldn't kill passengers. Mame, injure, inconvenience, yes. But death would likelty only come to the head end crew. A boiler explosion at sea however is something the insurance companies wouldn't even want to cover. The liability is the killer in my view.
MiningmanSS Keewatin, the last of the CPR Ships built in 1907
Here's a video of the ship from the 50's that shows passengers boarding from the boat train:
Indeed Becky! Possibly the London and South Western Railway's "Boat Train?"
Which Lionel SHOULD have reproduced for the "Titanic Centennial" instead of that diesel-powered whatever it was.
We had a VERY intelligent discussion on the Classic Toy Trains forum about this several years back!
Firelock76There's one advantage the old girl has over the new cruisers, those new ships are UGLY! At least to a traditionalist like myself. The things look like garish, overdecorated floating shoeboxes! Probably wouldn't last thirty seconds on the North Atlantic in winter, not like the old timers. The United States LOOKS like an ocean liner, even in it's state of decrepitude.
And there lies the impetus for saving this Titanic sized ship: it's grace. These modern mega-ships have no class at all. They remind me of the description of the ships of the Vogon constructor fleet in the Hitch-hiker's guide. Giant office blocks. They leave me cold no matter what they look like inside or how many theaters and buffets they have. The QM2 is about the best looking simply because they used the traditional black-red-orange paint of Cunard rather than the all bland, all white of so many cruisers.
Anyhoo. Isn't a train due?
Although this off topic. The ss France was saved from the torch once when she laid up the final time by the French line. Purchased by the Norwegian cruise line, she was repurposed for Caribbean cruising. boilers where removed to reduce operating expenses. Modern suites were add but some classes of cabins from her France era remained. She was a fun ship to sail on. She had a huge advantage over the Cunard's queens as she was air conditioned . Lack of ac kept the queens on the unprofitable north Atlantic runs.
The Norway cruised on until an unfortunate deadly boiler explosion forced a lay up she never returned from.
Well that sounds like fun! Lady F and I would like to cruise the Canadian Maritimes on of these days, or possibly the Maine coast for the lobster!
"Fair winds and following seas to ye!"
I didn't know that...thanks!
On a related note...I got married in LA and we spent our wedding night on the Queen Mary. We like doing "different" things than other people. We've been on 3 cruises and haven't been to the Caribbean (and don't want to). Our first was Alaska, then the Baltic and the last was Norway. Our next will be Australia and New Zealand in January.
Constellation is preserved indeed in Baltimore Johnny, we've been aboard her, Lady Firestorm and I (Lady F's grandfather was a Newfoundland fishing skipper so she's got salt water in her veins!) and she's impressive, to say the least.
This Constellation isn't the original from the War of 1812 era though, she's the second one, was built in the 1850's, and is the last surviving US Navy ship from the Civil War era. A great one to visit. Get down in the hold, and she smells old. Not a bad old smell either, more like a "grandpa's basement" old smell. Really pulls you into the past!
And Backshop, here's something a lot of people don't realize. Those preserved Iowa class battleships and others like the North Carolina, the Massachusetts, and the Texas are still Navy Department property, they're on loan, so to speak, to the various battleship memorial societies around the country, and they'd better take care of them to the best of their abilities, or else! I recall reading the state of Texas got a nasty-gram from the Navy several years back when the Texas wasn't being kept up as it should have been and was going to seed, so to speak. "Take care of that ship, or we're taking it back!" was the gist of the message. It had the desired effect.
Wayne
Dr D So why is the US Navy willing to save the original wooden sailing frigate USS Constitution and numerous battleships - USS Missouri - USS Iowa - USS Wisconson - USS New Jersey and yet willing to let this glorious construction of a passenger liner go to scrap.
So why is the US Navy willing to save the original wooden sailing frigate USS Constitution and numerous battleships - USS Missouri - USS Iowa - USS Wisconson - USS New Jersey and yet willing to let this glorious construction of a passenger liner go to scrap.
Because those ships had illustrious careers and actually shaped history and the SS United States did neither. Also, because those were USN ships and the United States wasn't. So why should the navy save something that doesn't belong to it? Plus, other than the Constitution, those ships aren't preserved by the government, but by private foundations.
Ah, yes, the day of many transatlantic sailings--listed in the Guide!
Oh, yes--Oliver Wendell Holmes wrote, "Aye, tear her tattered ensign down...." I went on board her once, in 1979, and had to stoop when on the gun deck. Men were shorter when she was built.
Isn't the Constellation also preserved, in Baltimore?
The potential for what? Preserving steam locomotives in operational condition eats a lot of money, who has the millions (billions?) required to restore a sizable liner to seaworthiness and to what end?
I guess I grew up at the end of the great age of Industrial Arts - of the Industrial Revolution. An age of steam passenger trains - the finest in the world! An age of the great steam passenger liners also finest in the world.
Yes I can remember them docked in New York side by side - RMS Queen Mary - RMS Queen Elizabeth - SS United States - SS Ille De France - SS America and SS France.
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They were the trans Atlantic liners for those passengers who just could not comprehend the fragility of the piston engine - the "Lockheed Constellation" and flying the Atlantic! In an age when too many air disasters happened and also near in memory were the World War II "Flying Fortress" and "Superfortress" which were just not the kind of thing your could travel in.
Yes this was an age when the Pan Am flying boat was of quite recent memory and the only suitable venue for the truely hardy traveler. Because you could always set them down in mid ocean as boats.
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Yes the trans Atlantic passenger steam ship trade was well established also - with regular sailings weekly and a time when one committed themselves to pampered care and at least three full days at sea - and away from the work day world.
Weather forcasting was in its infancy without satellite and reliable prediction and the chances of a rough weather North Atlantic crossing in winter were always to be expected. An age of radio communication when television was a small black white tube broadcast live and only 12 hours per day on maybe 3 major network channels if and when you could get the signal. When telephone was only done across oceans by underwater ocean cable. When Western Union Telegram was necessary for truely fast reliable communication and most persons still relied on the timely recept of information by mail in the form of letter.
Yes a strong and fast steam passenger ship - with all the ammenities - from formal dining and ball room dancing was to be desired and it was a fine way to travel.
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The SS United States was built in 1952 late in the game - arriving just before the end of the trans Atlantic passenger trade by steamship ended. lt was a massive ship which was grandly designed and built with massive amounts of government money and engineering to reveal the ultimate potential war troop transport.
Remember the last use of a war troop transport was in the British Falkland Islands campaign with Argentina in 1982. When the British filled the Queen Elizabeth II with soldiers and shiped them to fight in the South Atlantic. A high risk military adventure in the age of ship destroying guided missles.
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The SS United States featured no large ball room or dining areas. Rather it was designed with small space compartmentalization for war time damage control. Also some of the most powerful steam turbine engines ever placed in a ship with massive speed potential available 240,000 shaft horsepower - that was kept as a state secret and never opened up or measured even for the race for the "Blue Riband" trans Atlantic trophy. It was built to steam 10,000 miles non stop at a crusing speed of 40 miles per hour. She has the greatest power to weight ratio of any passenger liner ever built before or since. The ship could travel backwards in reverse at 23 miles per hour. Controversy has surounded her top speed which is said to be 50 miles per hour.
This was the "greyhound of the ocean" - and guess what folks! is still mostly with us and mostly intact! Bearing the name of our nation!
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Consider also the building of the SS France which bore the name of that nation and came to the trans Atlantic trade very very late. Also very beautiful ship - not a war transport - but a very beautiful liner for the nation that lost it famous liner SS Normande - as a casulty of war.
SS France was sold and later taken on by Norwegan Steamship line as a tourist liner. Ill adapted to the tourist trade and eventually suffering a boiler explosion owing to poor maintaince - the famous and last newest trans Atlantic liner went to scrap in India where little law governs the destruction of great ships by oxy acetylene torch.
The nation of France has had the interest to reconstruct with original hand tools the original French sailing frigate HERMONE - which massive spending and took ten years - and then sail it across the Atlantic Ocean this last year to visit America. Seems they could have had an interest in an original passenger liner which would be much more useful to just about everyone.
RMS Queen Elizabeth - gone burned in Hong Kong
SS France - gone scrapped in India
RMS Queen Mary - stripped of engines saved as an entertainment venue
SS United States - sorta saved gutted of interior by souvineer hunters
SS America - gone wrecked on the way to scrapping
SS Ille De France - gone
Why should our nation save the great British liner SS Queen Mary and yet be so ignorant of the remarkable technology present in its own name sake liner? Why should Britain the founder and builder of the great trans Atlantic liners and trade have none of its great passenger liners - NONE?
NO MEDIA ATTENTION - and yes the US Navy would not have the original wooden frigate warship USS Constitution if Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendel Holmes had not written and published the famous poem that saved the ship.
"Eye tear her tattered ensign down - long has it waved on high!
And many an eye has danced to see that banner in the sky!
Beneath it hung the battle shout and burst the cannons roar!
The metor of the ocean air shall sweap the clouds no more!
O better that here shattered hulk should sink beneath the wave!
Her thunders shook the mighty deep and there should be her grave!
Nail to the mast her holy flag and set every threadbare sail!
And give her the god of storms the lightening and the gale!"
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Someone needs to do something or there will be no great liners left - as there are no true clipper ships remaining either. This ought to be on someones historical venue. Plans to restore the ship have continued through August 15th 2016 but have continually fallen apart.
- the potential however still remains
- Doc
I've got to agree with you there. Those big floating hotels just don't look seaworthy to me. Of course, neither do those loaded container ships.
Thanks for the prompt reply. The SS United States as a casino is a nightmare scenario....better it where a Trump Hotel! Make it into a mobile White House ala Air Force One...endless Federal Funds available!
...and you can legitimately and proudly keep the name.
MiningmanQ?- Why must it be converted to something other than the original steam..I'm sure technology could reduce emissions substantially or it can get a historical waiver of sorts.
Emissions are likely not the elephant-in-the-room problem. That is a sophisticated and VERY large steam plant, using an enormous amount of very proprietary technology that hasn't been marketed or made in many decades. (While not an entirely fair analogy, think how many, say, ATSF 3463s represent that potential 212K shp...) Very little of this would be of positive interest to the ship's presumptive clientele; I doubt boat nerds would account for more than a small percentage of desired repeat business. Even with no 'adaptive reuse' of some proportion of the machinery spaces for cruise related purposes (casino, perhaps?) why renovate extensive obsolete machinery to make the ship go fast if your business model explicitly says otherwise?
On the other hand, I do suspect that emissions from boilers of this kind will be relatively immense and require all sorts of expensive abatement and special controls -- still more money thrown down a hole no one gets revenue from filling. And all this before you start thinking about maneuverability of a ship this size with four fixed wheels in a world of substantially fewer tugs, and more cost to arrange for them...
The only reason for pulling the steam engines out of the United States would be for adapting it to cruising, as opposed to it's original purpose of trans-Atlantic crossings.
According to what I've read, diesel engines are more efficient for the "stop-and-go" sailing that purpose-built cruise ships are intended for. For a trans-Atlantic crossing, or any major ocean crossing where the ship is brought up to it's sailing speed and kept there for however many days the crossing takes, steam is more efficient. Anyway, there's nothing wrong with the hull design and no reason to alter it. OK, maybe bow and stern thrusters for ease of docking, but nothing else is needed.
At any rate, look at all the features and amenities that modern cruising ships have to offer and by comparison something like the United States is totally outdated, it'd probably be cheaper to build a whole new ship than convert the United States to be able to compete with them. Damn it.
There's one advantage the old girl has over the new cruisers, those new ships are UGLY! At least to a traditionalist like myself. The things look like garish, overdecorated floating shoeboxes! Probably wouldn't last thirty seconds on the North Atlantic in winter, not like the old timers. The United States LOOKS like an ocean liner, even in it's state of decrepitude.
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