Trains.com

844 Break In Run Update From UP - Top Speed 60 MPH

9827 views
31 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    January 2015
  • 2,678 posts
844 Break In Run Update From UP - Top Speed 60 MPH
Posted by kgbw49 on Wednesday, July 13, 2016 6:03 PM

Short video on the break in run - topped out at 60 MPH. Thumbs up on that!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPPaF4DxQz8

 

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: Toronto, Canada
  • 2,560 posts
Posted by 54light15 on Wednesday, July 13, 2016 8:04 PM

How long exactly did the restoration take start to finish?

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • 1,447 posts
Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Thursday, July 14, 2016 7:14 AM

Pulled out of service 3 years ago then with everything they found given a complete Overhaul from the frame up put back into service this week.

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: Toronto, Canada
  • 2,560 posts
Posted by 54light15 on Thursday, July 14, 2016 1:32 PM

3 years, eh? it only took my father 18 years to paint the bathroom.

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, July 14, 2016 4:44 PM

3 years is a very respectable amount of time considering how much work was done on the locomotive. Congrats to the UP Steam Team on a job well done.

Now we'll have to wait and see how long the 4014 takes.

  • Member since
    August 2010
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,955 posts
Posted by Firelock76 on Thursday, July 14, 2016 5:26 PM

54light15

3 years, eh? it only took my father 18 years to paint the bathroom.

 

Two coats?

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: Toronto, Canada
  • 2,560 posts
Posted by 54light15 on Thursday, July 14, 2016 9:05 PM

I know the old man and nope. Once coat was good enough. Just about anything he attempted stopped at good enough. His method of waxing a car was to do the roof, the hood and then stop and say he'll get around to the rest of it "one of these fine days" and that day never came. 

But seriously, 3 years is nothing. I've known people take 25 years or more to restore an old car like an MG. I'm very impressed that they could accomplish it in such a short time. It shows that they have the knowledge, the will and the money. Just how big is the steam staff at UP? I assume they have new hires and apprentices and such. The restorers can't all be 90 year old men or volunteers like on a museum railroad.

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • 1,447 posts
Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Friday, July 15, 2016 7:53 AM

12 full time employees of the railroad complete with Boilermakers Machinists welders all based in the roundhouse.  They all know what they need to do and how to do it.  There are some that are mad that the old crew was replaced with the new guys they claimed 844 would never run again and such.  The New boss just had to get the Materials he needed the men and told them get to work and make her new again and they did. 

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 21,669 posts
Posted by Overmod on Saturday, July 16, 2016 9:45 PM

Interesting video of the trip to Greeley on the 13th.

Note the formalized lockout/tagout procedures. 

 

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • 1,447 posts
Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Sunday, July 17, 2016 10:04 AM

I have looked at alot of older videos of the 844.  The ones that show the servicing of her at stops guess what there was no Lock out tag out process for it.  Sorry but if I was going to be working on a 300 PSI 2000 degree steam pressure vessel that moves I would want someone that knows where I am at all times. 

  • Member since
    August 2010
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,955 posts
Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, July 17, 2016 11:49 AM

Very impressive, 844 shines like a new penny!

I'm surprised they blocked a grade crossing like that, but maybe that part of Greeley doesn't get a lot of vehicular traffic.

I did like that they named a car after Howard Fogg, nice touch.

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 21,669 posts
Posted by Overmod on Sunday, July 17, 2016 12:10 PM

Shadow the Cats owner
I have looked at a lot of older videos of the 844.  The ones that show the servicing of her at stops -- guess what, there was no Lock out tag out process for it.  Sorry but if I were going to be working on a 300 PSI 2000 degree steam pressure vessel that moves I would want someone [to know] where I am at all times.

It's not quite that bad -- nearly 422 degrees* -- but that's plenty to ruin your day.  (Especially when the moving pressure vessel has been modified to shoot the blowdown out the side at roughly person height ... but I digress.)

The essential reason why this restoration has taken "three years" is intimately associated with the building of the current culture of safety and quality assurance.  Whether or not you are one of the carping crew who said UP brought this upon themselves with the pool chemicals and ignorant use of the independent and so forth, it's important to recognize all the ways in which the 'new' heritage team (and it's not a euphemism to call them that, more than a crew) do things differently on a fundamental basis -- this very simple but profound method of implementing tag-out almost effortlessly but effectively being a vivid, and early-recognized, example.

I'm interested to see how quickly this tag-out idea propagates to a couple of other well-organized 'operating' organizations: Kelly's group with the 765 in particular. 

 

* I am sure there will be someone who feels the urge to check this.  Be aware when you do that there is a roughly 15-psi difference between psig and psia, before you feel the need to make any comment.

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 21,669 posts
Posted by Overmod on Sunday, July 17, 2016 12:11 PM

Firelock76
I'm surprised they blocked a grade crossing like that, but maybe that part of Greeley doesn't get a lot of vehicular traffic.

As noted, it's safer to be Mr. Alemite Man while standing on level pavement.  Safety First, Last, and Always!

  • Member since
    August 2010
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,955 posts
Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, July 17, 2016 4:28 PM

Overmod
 
Firelock76
I'm surprised they blocked a grade crossing like that, but maybe that part of Greeley doesn't get a lot of vehicular traffic.

 

As noted, it's safer to be Mr. Alemite Man while standing on level pavement.  Safety First, Last, and Always!

 

Makes perfect sense, and obviously the locals in Greeley didn't mind.

Alemite?  Don't the Australians put that on sandwiches?  Tough people! :-)

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, July 17, 2016 4:55 PM

The safety culture of today bears no resemblence to what was considered safe, 30, 40, 50 years or more ago.  Injury statistics record the differences.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Canterlot
  • 9,575 posts
Posted by zugmann on Sunday, July 17, 2016 9:13 PM

Overmod
I'm interested to see how quickly this tag-out idea propagates to a couple of other well-organized 'operating' organizations: Kelly's group with the 765 in particular.

Blue flagging (the railroad form of lockout/tagout) is one of the core essential and most sacred of railroad safety rules.  Even without checking, I would wager with 99.9999% certainty the 765 folks also blue flag their engine when they have to work on it.

 

You would be hard pressed to find any operating railroad stupid enough not to use blue flags (considering it's part of the code of federal regulations)

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 21,669 posts
Posted by Overmod on Sunday, July 17, 2016 11:06 PM

Blue flag is only an indication that the engine is under service; the 'expanded' procedure now indicates who is responsible for functions on a blue-flagged engine, and gives quick ID at a glance 'who's who'.  That is a more specific implementation.

It's those individual 'keychain' photo-ID "tags" that I'm talking about, not the blue-flag system (which, both in common sense and for the reasons you point out, is necessary).

It occurs to me that the personal-tag system might also help, to an extent, with issues when multiple crafts put out separate flags, and then one goes home forgetting to remove 'his' flag and can't be reached.

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 21,669 posts
Posted by Overmod on Sunday, July 17, 2016 11:08 PM

Firelock76
Alemite? Don't the Australians put that on sandwiches?

No.  The Australian stuff is made with vegetables... of a sort, if your definition of vegetable extends to yeast.   Alemite is made with fish. ;-}

I'm not sure, but didn't the Californians use yosemite?

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Canterlot
  • 9,575 posts
Posted by zugmann on Sunday, July 17, 2016 11:16 PM

Overmod
It's those individual 'keychain' photo-ID "tags" that I'm talking about, not the blue-flag system (which, both in common sense and for the reasons you point out, is necessary).

Accountability tags.  Similar to firefighters.  I guess it makes sense. I've seen our guys do that at times (but not as formal - two blue lights tossed on the control stand).

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

  • Member since
    July 2015
  • 21 posts
Posted by gwyn68 on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 6:59 PM
AHA,Brits use Marmite!
  • Member since
    July 2015
  • 21 posts
Posted by gwyn68 on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 8:33 PM

kgbw49

Short video on the break in run - topped out at 60 MPH. Thumbs up on that!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPPaF4DxQz8

 

 

kgbw49

Short video on the break in run - topped out at 60 MPH. Thumbs up on that!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPPaF4DxQz8

 What a brilliant restoration,3 years! fantastic job.

Just watched on youtube UP's Ed Dickens presentation on 844's rebuild,excellent!

Some real craftsmanship and love gone in to that locomotive.

 

Tags: 844 rebuild
  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: San Francisco East Bay
  • 1,360 posts
Posted by MikeF90 on Thursday, July 21, 2016 5:17 PM

I didn't see this elsewhere - here is the latest public appearance schedule published by UP:

http://www.up.com/media/releases/160720-steam-returns.htm

Pretty short notice unless you live in Colorado .....

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • 1,447 posts
Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Friday, July 22, 2016 6:11 AM

They always stated their goal was to get her back up and running in time for this years Frontier Days and they made it with a few days to spare.  Yes she was out of service for 3 years but the way and this is from a friend that is in the Steam program at Cheyenne they took her down to the Frame and started over with her.  She basically had what in the 40's and 50's would have been a class 1 Overhaul done to her.  He also says that is the plan on 4014 and 3985 and the goal is all 3 by 2021. 

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • 120 posts
Posted by bartman-tn on Friday, July 22, 2016 8:46 AM

There were comments about multiple lock-outs during servicing. This has become a standard practice in almost all industries, and is in fact the law or OSHA requirement in many. Yes, I know that OSHA can't require it for railroads in this case, but if anyone gets hurt, an attorney will be asking why it wasn't done. The process has each employee who will be impacting the machinery, or placing themselves into danger should the machine operate, place a lock with ID on the controls or some other location to prevent it from being operated. This also allows managers and workers to keep track of each other, possibly aiding rescue should something happen. I've seen it save lives in several factories and construction sites.

Changes like this are often hard to start as there are often people saying that the old way worked. This is probably true, but the extra step doesn't take much time and is certainly becoming a practice elsewhere.

  • Member since
    July 2011
  • 46 posts
Posted by kenotrainnut on Saturday, July 30, 2016 4:54 PM

This was shared in another discussion forum regarding 844. It's a presentation by Ed Dickens the day before the CFDT explaining the detail level of the current rebuild. 

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • 1,447 posts
Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Sunday, July 31, 2016 2:05 PM

If you watched this all the way thru like I did along with my husband you hear a few things that make you go holy smoke in a way.  He has ordered New Piston rods and Pistons for both 4014 and 844 so I called my friend he also confirmed that the 3985 when it is her turn is going to get the same level of care in her next overhaul that these 2 are getting if not better.  How many steam engines these days get new parts like Piston rods pistons he is also wanting to if possible have new drivers and axles made for all of them if he can find someone to do it. He wants these engines to be around for another 100 years if not more. 

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • 4,612 posts
Posted by M636C on Monday, August 8, 2016 8:20 AM

While a bit off topic, since this is a current thread:

844 has twin multiple jet stacks.

There is a photo of 835 in two tone grey described as being on Truman's campaign train in Denver CO (so in 1948?) in the Classic Trains Photo of the Day collection (up a couple of weeks ago).

It clearly has a narrower and longer stack than 844, and it appears to have triple conventional stacks. I recall a passing reference to this in the British published Loco Profile on "American 4-8-4s" (which had a lot to cover).

I assume this was an experiment not continued.

M636C

(as one of the resident Australians here, Vegemite should be spread on hot buttered toast, and don't blame us, it is a product of Kraft, a USA organisation. It tastes better than Marmite, from personal experience. The word "marmite" is a French word for a cooking pot,  I understand.)

  • Member since
    January 2015
  • 2,678 posts
Posted by kgbw49 on Tuesday, August 9, 2016 7:51 PM

This is a really minor technical question that I am hoping that someone with some expertise might be able to answer.

Does the floor of the cab of UP 844 have a slightly backward slope for water drainage, or are my eyes tricking me that there is a slight slant on the cab running board?

I have noticed in several pictures of the 2016 Frontier Days Special that there appears to be a slight slope to the white-painted running board alongside the cab, and I am assumng that is at floor level, although that may not be correct either.

Thanks for any notes.

 

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • 4,612 posts
Posted by M636C on Tuesday, August 9, 2016 9:08 PM

kgbw49

This is a really minor technical question that I am hoping that someone with some expertise might be able to answer.

Does the floor of the cab of UP 844 have a slightly backward slope for water drainage, or are my eyes tricking me that there is a slight slant on the cab running board?

I have noticed in several pictures of the 2016 Frontier Days Special that there appears to be a slight slope to the white-painted running board alongside the cab, and I am assumng that is at floor level, although that may not be correct either.

Thanks for any notes. 

 
 
My understanding, such that it is, is that the boiler is fixed at the smokebox end and expansion due to heat is taken up at the rear in sliding bearings under the firebox.
 
The front end of the cab is attached to the boiler and the rear of the cab is attached to the frame, which is not subject to heat to the same extent as the boiler.
 
Hence the cab wil tilt slightly due to expansion of the boiler when in operation but will return when the loco is cold.
 
Just my view, of course...
 
M636C
  • Member since
    January 2015
  • 2,678 posts
Posted by kgbw49 on Wednesday, August 10, 2016 6:21 AM

Makes sense. Thanks so much!

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy