Paul ,
if you look at old pictures , steam used to be fired 'smokey' in the States generally and pretty heavily so . If this was improving steaming is at least questionable for the 'darker' cases since it increased the percentage of but partly burnt fuel and increased CO content which meant a loss of heat development by increase of feed rate . As with the infamous 'grate limit' there always was a limit to how much steam you could generate and this said , the crews in their daily struggle to handle loads that in doubt were rather up to the engine's limit than leaving a significant margin of power reserve were definitely more concerned about getting their train over the line than with environmental aspects or saving fuel . So in doubt , tendency clearly was to 'fill the box' rather than take a risk of fierce blast of draughting tearing up a hole in the fire .
Then again , much of the coal used had a lot of fines and volatile contents and was 'smokey' to fire to start with . If that latter aspect has since been improved substantially I just don't know . With steam tours , true , there is a deplorable tendency again to put on plenty for show - disregarding not only environmental aspects ( and raining lots of cinders onto cars and travellers , too ) but also doing no good for boiler flues & tubes and superheater elements , smokebox upkeep .
Was the engine working hard ? I beg your pardon , she was , wasn't she ! There is a common tradition of calling it 'effortlessly' if a steam loco did live up to demands , even if just so . While it was not into last resorts , it was well worked at - presumably - full throttle and some 30 - 35 % cut-off at passing by .
With the N&W J's large cylinder volume dropping down 'to the corner' as was done more commonly on Pennsy steam would not have produced higher tractive effort effectively but was likely to result in a violent slip even before fully having 'dropped' the gear . With this in mind , yes the engine was working pretty hard as you could also see by the high rising tower of smoke emitted . If the engine would be hammering like that at a lesser rate of working already something would be seriously wrong with tune-up of draughting . On the other hand , the Roanoke engines having been equipped with single chimney plain design of draughting , to a certain extent they always tended to 'hammer away pretty hard' as soon as called to live up by any extent while for instance a 241.P SNCF Mountain with double chimney Kylchap exhaust would keep pretending to be easy going pretty much until having to call up last reserves .
Instead of making a steam trip an event more rare than fine weather around Cape Hoorn and then hanging on about any coach available no matter what shape , origin or color provided it runs on standard gauge ( or so it seems ) I would rather have more trips and a genuinely ‘clean’ brand consist and a ( for technicians ) more pleasing ascent at some speed worth a passenger train and working at but light grey exhaust nearer to the preferable work range of the locomotive .
About the test run top speeds reported , some 110 or even 115 mph , not intending to enter discussion about the exact value , this was a once-in-life all out effort . To do that , you could go much nearer to the mechanical and material structural limits than you could ever do in regular service . What many steam fans forget when comparing steam’s speeds with that of regular trains of later times is : if a steam loco , no matter if British Gresley Pacific , Bulleid Pacific , Stanier Pacific or NYC J-3a , N&W J or Southern Daylight 4-8-4 : no speed claimed or recorded with a test run was ever applicable in every day service by 1:1 scale . Rather , you had to stay away from that mark of maximum by some 20 % , in cases when engines had been hard pressed to attain that max speed even a 30 % margin could wisely be left untouched and what I can say : so far I have *never* ever seen a video of any of these engines speeding by at anything but faintly near such speeds as claimed , rather the steam passenger by-runs are leisurely affairs at some 70 – 80 mph . One old guy who had travelled the footplate of a Bulleid Pacific in the Sixties with the crew only pushing it to some 80 mph wrote never in his life did he get as scared as when on that engine , believing it was plain inevitable wheels would jump rails soon or sooner and had ‘soft knees’ when finally they made it into the next station alright and he took the chance to leave for solid ground below his feet . Well , the descendants of Sir Francis Drake sure take a different look at safety than the rest of the world .
As for #611 , the by-run shows the engine has that later simplified version of rod arrangement and that means ‘bye-bye’ to 100 mph running anyways .
Besides that , congratulations to successful return of #611 to the working steam locomotives of today – some good heap of solid work has been put in , no doubt !
Regards
Juniatha
Smoke could also be a fireman/firewoman not experienced enough.
Firelock76 Question 3: I suspect all that smoke was the head end crew hamming it up for the cameras. Common practice during photo run-bys.
Question 3: I suspect all that smoke was the head end crew hamming it up for the cameras. Common practice during photo run-bys.
They used to do that coming southbound out of my hometown of Bucyrus, Ohio. They'd hit the straight stretch between Bucyrus and Marion and just pour on the smoke. Awesome sight to see! On south of town, though, where she was "cruising", the smoke was rather light, as seen below on a northbound trip south of Bucyrus at Caldwell Road.
Kevin
http://chatanuga.org/RailPage.html
http://chatanuga.org/WLMR.html
There are only two real possibilities for the smoke: inattention or purposeful. Given the circumstances, my money would be heavily placed on the latter choice. For some strange reason I can't quite understand, the practise is to lay on the black stuff thickly for photo opportunities. Somewhere along the way, a great many people accepted that properly fired steam locomotives should belch volumes of smoke, and that gets passed on to successive generations. I don't like it one bit, but I am one of relatively few contrarians it seems.
The locomotive was still cycling near 3-4 rpm as it rounded the curve, so the cut-off ought to have been somewhere between 20-30% at that point in the grade and climbing by increments of about 20 every 10 seconds, or so. As its HP dropped off rapidly, the increased cut-off became more important in smaller units of time.
Paul, the elderly gentleman scampering across the tracks caught my attention as well, mostly because I know many older people think they are more physically adept than they really are, especially when excited (who hasn't seen the wedding videos on youtube where some rather awkward and potentially dangerous events take place). I watched for more of the same, but when the locomotive rounded the bend, I watched it and failed to look for more opportunists or people who couldn't make up their minds. I didn't notice any, and felt better that the gentleman seemed to dash before the locomotive could be seen bearing down on him about 300 yds away. It's the late dashers who make me hold my breath. A dropped shoe, hesitation to retrieve it, a dropped lens from a carrier not zipped shut (the one his dad gave him prior to his death), a dragged toddler whose mother's hand can't quite maintain his squirmy hand in hers, yada yada.... I don't want to think about it.
1. 18 trailing cars, including the "canteen" water tender. Would Amtrak dispatch 3 P42's for that?
2. It seemed the locomotive was working hard? Was the valve rod dropped down for "forward quadrant"? It seems a little hard to tell as the engine flashed by and also with Baker valve gear.
3. Was some of that smoke "for show"? It seems there was some stoking to darken the smoke just as they passed the crossing? The pictures of J's I have seen show a rather clean stack.
4. Were all of those train watchers on public property or on private property with permission. What about those people crossing the tracks towards the end? This gets batted around and argued, but I would like us in the railfan community to make the extra effort to set a good example regarding safety crossing tracks and respecting the private property of the railroads, especially from the safety point of view.
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
Thanks very much, Big Jim. I contributed a tiny amount to her restoration, and am thrilled to know she is back in business.
-Crandell
Beautiful. Simply beautiful.
Wow! Thanks for posting!
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU
EVEN THE AUDIO WAS GOOD!!!!
Great video!!! Storming the grade and spliting CPLs.
TG3 LOOK ! LISTEN ! LIVE ! Remember the 3.
Glorious! Glorious! Thanks so much for posting this Big Jim!
611 at Villamont, Va.
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I had the pleasure in watching the preparations for 611's move last week and today the thrill of watching her pass by, on the Trains web cam, which was sited close to the Lynchburg - Salem turnpike. The interviews were quite interesting to me while we awaited the train and luckily, apart from the wind, it seems it was a lovely day.
Grateful thanks to Trains Magazine, Jim Wrinn. the young lady and helpers for a very unique spectacle. I look forward to the Classic Trains Special.
Now, before bedtime (it is presently 20.17 UTC here), to look at the Roanoke cam.
Alan, Oliver & North Fork Railroad
https://www.buckfast.org.uk/
If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there. Lewis Carroll English author & recreational mathematician (1832 - 1898)
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