# 3
With very limited funds available, I see more hope in keeping what we have running, replacing parts as they where out, even going for a new boiler when necessary, starting from scratch . Talk to the people who do the work, at Strasburg, at the UP, and I think they will agree. How long has 844 been running? Cannot it continue for at least 50 years more, and why not 100? The return of the N&W J seems pretty assured.
My hope is that eventually all the big 6 or big 7 will realize the promotionaly power of steam, realizing that short of running their own top quality passenger trains again and getting people to use them, steam may be their best PR tool in reaching the non-freight-shipping-and-receiving public.
This does not preclude sensible modernizaton, and this can be done in all cases without destorying esthetics.
# 2
That's a fun question on so many levels, Juniatha. (As usual.) I'd like to see some of the most modern steam from the 1940s-1960s configured to meet 21st century operating standards. Or someone willing to take another look at a design that didn't quite meet expectations. The Duke of Gloucester group accomplished wonders when they reworked a relatively small percentage of the original design's components.
One reply mentioned the New York Central's Niagara, which certainly deserves consideration as one of the most accomplished North American steam locomotive designs. The big three N&W designs would be fun to see again.
Your proposal doesn't mention money, so I'm figuring a weekly play in each of the major lotteries of the world must be envisioned. Or we can look at your idea another way. Instead of going big, what if some enterprising team went much smaller and came up with a classic steam design derived from locomotives used in, say, commuter service. The railway could have several locomotives of the same design (e.g., a double-ended tank like a 2-6-2T or 4-6-4T), but with the details carefully worked out for most efficient operation.
And what about aesthetics? "Elephant ears"? Tall drivers? Tidy boiler or one with piping running everywhere? Should all the locomotives in the stud look the same or should some adopt profiles last seen in several different railroads or even countries?
Finally, I'd really like to see a truly clean-burning coal-fired design, or maybe we could get McDonald's to sponsor one fueled used french-fry oil.
# 1
What I'd like to see happen is a continual rebuilding and improvement of the existing locomotives, including substantial rebuilding where and as needed. There's an old joke about 'grandfather's hammer -- two new heads, five new handles, but just as good as the day it was made' that applies to locomotives in a sense. Take NYC 5344, the Hudson most deserving of preservation in my opinion. Very little of the original engine that rolled out of Schenectady remained by the end. That would be the same with most of the truly significant locomotives ... eventually, perhaps, the boiler plate will have thinned, or the frame casting "crystallized" or some other very expensive part will need replacing, but where there is money there can be a rebuilding of anything necessary.
The most significant reason why 'historic' locomotives have had to be taken out of service is insurance cost. I think the second most significant reason is failure of an organization to support repairs and operation wholeheartedly. (A substantial amount of money appears to have been thrown at K4 1361, and while I don't propose to open up that can of worms again, money alone was not the reason why things have happened the way they have).
I take it the scope of this question is leaving out the 3463 project (which has its own threads anyway).
Best 'bang for the buck' would probably be to build some version of the 5AT, since all the hard design work has been done, and some very good thinking has gone into where and for what this locomotive could be operated. I'd expect it to be light-oil (diesel) fired, for the same reasons as for 8055, and probably have some kind of biodiesel tie-in to make the relatively low thermodynamic efficiency. Second best would probably be to revive the Turbomotive 2 project, as both the turbine engineering and the geartrain fabrication have become largely costed-down.
As far as historical locomotives: the toss-up for me is between a modernized 240P and an even-more-modernized 242 A1. Yes, I'd like to see a Niagara (and I have some ideas about what I'd do to it) and of all the modern large 4-8-4 designs that one has about the smallest clearances. Interestingly enough, it's also been demonstrated that you can get 2-8-0 fuel economy and water rate out of that locomotive if your load and performance needs are also 2-8-0 sized...
Of course a modernized T-class 4-4-4-4 would be on my list, but where would you run it?
Note that all the above is predicated on the market for revived/modern steam being for excursion service. If designing for Plandampf or similar service, something reasonably close to Juniatha's modern 2-8-2 might be worth considering.
Hello everyone
( please note additions )
This is an invitation to look at the situation of steam locomotive running in our present time . Obviously , the steam locomotives preserved by very creditable efforts of individuals and clubs have come of age and will go on ageing - 'As time goes by' - I'm sure you know this line http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q93zQdqd-Ys
So , what are the perspectives ? Are we going to see these engines been run until they are worn out , in spite of all renewing of material which – theoretically – could go all around , full circle , until the last handle or lever has been replaced by a new replica ?
After all , how much longer will ‘old’ ( sorry – classic ! ) steam locomotives be adaptable to modern railways , to train speeds , mainline occupation and many more parameters that must be met if such a vintage engine is to travel on today’s railway lines ?
Or – can we get to a point where new steam locomotives will be built – explicitly to run steam specials or extra trains – or maybe , even commercial trains which then might also be freight trains ?
If so :
What would be your favorite proposal for new steam to be built ?
( first consideration : for excursion / travel passenger train service - possible application to special freight service - NOT in combination with diesel MUing but as stand-alone power on a train - taking second place
Categories
a) – modernized version of historical class of steam locomotive lost in transition from steam to modern traction
b) – modern version of classic reciprocating steam , new engine by one historic wheel arrangement of the classic concept ( no ‘box on bogies’ type of steam that looks like any diesel only differs inside ) *
c) – modern type with new , never or rarely before wheel arrangement to classic concept reciprocating steam ( no ‘box on bogies’ type of steam that looks like any diesel only differs inside ) *
d) – what size of engine , what type of firing would you propose ?
e) – and last not least what color scheme - I must add .
Hoping for some interesting ideas & contributions to this topic all too often taken little notice of – yet important if we want classic steam locomotives swing rods and wheel along over the mainlines in times to come …
One request if you don't mind :
For better assorting earlier posts and later answers may I ask everybody to post a consecutively running posting number to the top of their posts - I wll ad them up so far now - and if you quote please put the number of that posting you quote in front of the quotation .
( you will have to add these numbers to your own post and to the quoted text by hand , the forums software does not support that feature at the moment )
With regards
Juniatha
* the formatting function suddenly turned this line in extra font into a shocking shouting format - I corrected it , sorry , didn't intend to *shout* at anyone
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