Nice to make some new friends here! I do love the steamers as a kid I grew up on the NYC main line to Mackinac Michigan. I remember the NYC Hudsons and yes the 6000 Niagras at the end of their life running far end of the system to Mackinac.
The NYC Niagra there was a locomotive - no steam dome! Paul Keifer had to design that large boiler with a dry pipe to take the steam without a dome for clearance reasons. Look at the photo the water injector is at the top of the boiler too. Little engineering report or discussion was ever revealed about this unique locomotive. Its only equals would have been NW600s or C&O600s.
Ross Rowland should do something with C&O614 before it gets lost on the way to the scrap yard. This is an engine NS could claim as much as NW611. By the way when I saw C&O 614 the first time in the 1970s it was on the scrap line at Russel, KY. It was numbered C&O611. Later when I met Ross Rowland when he ran a steam excursion in Michigan with 1225 crew manning the coaches he told me it was renumbered from 614 to 611 by the railroad and he was changing the number back to 614.
I got a cab ride in 614 that day - now that was an experience the equal to seeing NW611. I had a few black and white photos of 614/611 in the scrap line and Russ Rowland wanted them. I said I would give them to him if I could ride the cab. Russ said to ask the road forman, so I showed him the same black and whites. The RF said "what the hell go ahead, just find someone to watch your coach." Later in the day on C&O614 the stoker motor broke down. And the rest of the PM1225 guys had to go up in the cab to shovel the coal! Yah right! I believe that! I really do! I believe it was a good excuse and the PM guys to get some good cab experience. PM1225 had not been successfully run yet and we were looking for experience! It was the 1980s after all.
N&W 611 was built in 1950 that has to be the youngest and newest of the northern 4-8-4 locos. All the comercial builders, Baldwin, Alco, and Lima were out of the steam locomotive business or just plain out of business by then. A new steamer in 1950 do you believe it! One that regularly has been run over 110mph. The North American record for NYC999 is 112mph for crying out loud.
Dr. D
And I was under that misapprehension myself, to be honest. I appreciate Dr. D's taking the time to offer his correction, and GP-40 for confirming. It's great to keep learning!
Crandell
selector It seems many of us make assumptions that don't turn out to be fact. I'm pretty sure that N&W 611 has roller bearings throughout, or does now if it did not in its mid-life service. The Niagaras also had similar main rods with the large circular pivot points where their crank pins were inserted on the various drivers. But the Milw Rd, UP 844, and other modern excursions engines don't appear to have roller bearings on their side rods, only on their drivers, trucks, and tender trucks....from what I can see. Steamlocomotive.com seems to bear out Dr. D's contention about UP 844 in that they mention roller bearings on the wheels, but not on the rods. Crandell
It seems many of us make assumptions that don't turn out to be fact. I'm pretty sure that N&W 611 has roller bearings throughout, or does now if it did not in its mid-life service. The Niagaras also had similar main rods with the large circular pivot points where their crank pins were inserted on the various drivers. But the Milw Rd, UP 844, and other modern excursions engines don't appear to have roller bearings on their side rods, only on their drivers, trucks, and tender trucks....from what I can see. Steamlocomotive.com seems to bear out Dr. D's contention about UP 844 in that they mention roller bearings on the wheels, but not on the rods.
That is correct. The N&W 611 is all roller bearings, including the main rods. The UP 844 has roller bearings on the wheel axles only, not the rods.
Off the top of my head, the only other excursion locomotive I recall having roller bearings on the axles and rods like the 611 is the C&O 614.
I really enjoyed seeing 611 in the 1990's. Spent the day chasing it in my Dodge police car as I have done with many steam locomotives. 611 was in a class by itself, the power and acceleration of the train made it impossible to catch from Fort Wayne to Detroit. 611 was probably one of the finest and fastest steamers ever built and surprisingly with fairly small drive wheels.
I worked on PM 1225 for years and the engine did not have roller bearings CZ. Few except the last steam locomotives produced were fully roller bearing equipped and surprisingly not many survived. UP844 has roller axles and tender but the rods are brass bushed. PM 1225 berkshire was fully brass bearing equipped. I am proud I turned the main rod drive brass myself. When you think about it roller bearings operate with very small clearances under .001 most often. To assemble a 100 foot locomotive with all the bearings exactly in alignment is a daunting task. Drivers must be perfecly quartered, axle spacing must be exactly the same. Many new steam locomotives were as far out of alignment as 1/4 inch on the parts when they were brand new. Brass bearings were very forgiving in this variation of parts allignment. The new engine "break in" period allowed the whole thing to settle into some manner of working order.
Old saying goes "nothing is perfect" when old steamers run its a gift from the gods! NW611 was the best UP844 too! Maybe NS could contract 611's 15 year work with the UP steam shop, no one looks better equiped to handle the job these days as does UP. Glad we got em! and a running Big Boy! Make my day! Wake me up I think I'm dreaming!
A McIntosh It would be interesting who succeeds Wick Moorman when he retires. Hopefully this program would continue like the UP program has. What I would love to experience again, but it would be quite unlikely, is 611 running with a passenger consist side by side with 1218 pulling a freight. I witnessed this in 1987. Man, was that ever an experience!
It would be interesting who succeeds Wick Moorman when he retires. Hopefully this program would continue like the UP program has. What I would love to experience again, but it would be quite unlikely, is 611 running with a passenger consist side by side with 1218 pulling a freight. I witnessed this in 1987. Man, was that ever an experience!
I saw the video and it was great even on video!
The pictures below are two of mine from 1956. That was great.
CZ
Let us not forget the cost of the tools and a place to do the work! Neither of witch are inexpensive. And a way to get the 611 to where the work is to be done.
Tim
When a steamer gets opened, that's when you find out what will be needed. That can be significantly more than a first "good guess" - it all depends on the conditions found in the boiler and the various sheets. When the Strasburg opened up the EBT15 to do the FRA work needed there, they found hidden cracks in the firebox door sheet, and of course more that ran the $$$$ up dramatically. The good news there: the boiler was in great shape. Lynn commented about tubes, and problems with Thomas - like boiler/tube problems after only 1 year in the field due to bad municipal water caused corrosion. (The fact that current boiler tubes are substandard also came up.)
I'd *love* to see the 611 running again. I saw it "hot" only one time (in Chattanooga..) - and never got a chance to see it operating. Running at speed would be a treat, and worth several days of vacation time (which is very hard to get where I work...)
Thomas 9011 According to the FRA, a steam locomotive has to be torn down completely, ultra sounded, and a thorough inspection after 1472 days of service, or 15 years, whichever occurs first. So at the very least it would have to be torn down, boiler tubes removed, and new ones put in. As a former mechanic of both steam and diesel locomotives the 611 is way over the hump for several reasons... All the parts are accounted for and were in formally running condition. It was in good running condition when it was donated to the museum. It was current with the FRA the last time it was steamed up. The paint is in good condition and the side panels are not rusting away. The air brake system is in working condition. A big advantage of the 611 is that it has roller bearings both on the side rods and on the tender. Roller bearings rarely seize up and require minimal maintenance if any. If the 611 still had friction bearings it wouldn't even be allowed on the main line as friction bearing axles were outlawed decades ago. One big negative is that the 611 is a coal burner. This would probably be one of the main problems of returning the 611 back to steam. If you want my 5 cents on the 611 as a mechanic, I would say the tender as it stands is pretty much ready to go. It has roller bearings, and the braking system is working. Flange wear would have to be checked with a gauge and the air brake system would have to be checked for leaks. It would have to be filled with water and see if anything leaks. Running gear appears to be in good condition and would probably need minimal work done. The piston rings would have to be replaced as there is no steam lubrication when it is moving back and forth in the yard and the rings have probably worn down. Boiler tubes cut out and new ones put inside. Frame was probably already magna fluxed and FRA approved. I doubt if it would need any work. Gauges would have to be re-calibrated and tested. The piping is probably still good. Estimated time with 10 people working 40 hours a week. 6 months. Estimated cost labor $192,000 Estimated cost parts $160,000 Total $352,000
According to the FRA, a steam locomotive has to be torn down completely, ultra sounded, and a thorough inspection after 1472 days of service, or 15 years, whichever occurs first. So at the very least it would have to be torn down, boiler tubes removed, and new ones put in.
As a former mechanic of both steam and diesel locomotives the 611 is way over the hump for several reasons...
All the parts are accounted for and were in formally running condition.
It was in good running condition when it was donated to the museum.
It was current with the FRA the last time it was steamed up.
The paint is in good condition and the side panels are not rusting away.
The air brake system is in working condition.
A big advantage of the 611 is that it has roller bearings both on the side rods and on the tender. Roller bearings rarely seize up and require minimal maintenance if any. If the 611 still had friction bearings it wouldn't even be allowed on the main line as friction bearing axles were outlawed decades ago.
One big negative is that the 611 is a coal burner. This would probably be one of the main problems of returning the 611 back to steam.
If you want my 5 cents on the 611 as a mechanic, I would say the tender as it stands is pretty much ready to go. It has roller bearings, and the braking system is working. Flange wear would have to be checked with a gauge and the air brake system would have to be checked for leaks. It would have to be filled with water and see if anything leaks.
Running gear appears to be in good condition and would probably need minimal work done.
The piston rings would have to be replaced as there is no steam lubrication when it is moving back and forth in the yard and the rings have probably worn down.
Boiler tubes cut out and new ones put inside.
Frame was probably already magna fluxed and FRA approved. I doubt if it would need any work.
Gauges would have to be re-calibrated and tested. The piping is probably still good.
Estimated time with 10 people working 40 hours a week. 6 months.
Estimated cost labor $192,000
Estimated cost parts $160,000
Total $352,000
I would have to guess the prices quoted are a bargain. I would bet twice that cost.
I'm just guessing on this, but I suspect Wick Moorman has a board of directors he has to answer to, and if he can justify bringing 611 back to life they may just give him carte blanche to do so. So far he's made the case for the steam and Heritage programs and has been successful in implementing same.
Unless he owns the company even the biggest boss has to answer to someone.
Bill290DennI do look for NS to expand the size and scope of the Steam Program for 2013 so keep your hopes alive and stay tuned!
I believe the 4501 should be good to go for 2013. I think this will be the mainstay of the steam program for 2013. There may be less "spare money" floating around next year, too. Traffic is a bit soft these days.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
The new FRA rules would apply to 611 so depending on how they treat her retirement where out of service time is concerned that would have a dramatic influence on what work would need to be accomplished where the boiler is concerned. In all likelihood a full 1472 day inspection would need to be accomplished. Considering the good shape she was in at retiement in 1994 she would come through the inspection with flying colors.
She has a 26RL brake system and once again, time out of service would determine if any of the brake valves would need to be changed out. FRA rules require a complete COTS on the brake system of a locomotive with 26RL every 3 years. Out of service time can extend that.
When they have moved the locomotive all moving parts and surfaces have been well lubticated so the piston rings and cylinder surfaces would not need any work, but would be inspected.
Someone had mentioned about flat spots on the wheels from sitting stationary for long seasons. Not true. The wheels would be gauged for profiles and things as rim thickness, flange height and thickness, tread wear, and overall conture checked, but all of that would be reflecting wear from running or moving, not from sitting stationary.
All the appliances such as feedwater heater, cross compound air pumps, stoker engine and screw, turbogenerator, etc, would have to be checked and serviced.
I do know the rear engine truck needs work as well as some other minor work that could be easily taken care of in the run-up to operation.
Coal supply is no problem. Oh, and it is a false statement about friction bearings being outlawed. That restriction does not apply to locomotives or otherwise 630 would never have left TVRM to run on NS and 4501 would not be being rebuilt to run on NS. There are provisions in the rules to allow friction bearings to be accepted under the right circumstances.
NS has and still is investing quite heavily in the new Steam Program and as long as the current leadership remains in place they will continue to do so.
I would not be surprized at all to hear news of 611 returning to operation in the present set of circumstances. NKP 765's recent excellent performance has opened the door for that potential.
I do look for NS to expand the size and scope of the Steam Program for 2013 so keep your hopes alive and stay tuned!
Leo is right, the issue with insurance is the LIABILITY insurance, not "collision". As a stockholder in a steam-excursion railroad, as well as a former employee of same road, I can assure you of this.
611's value to the new steam program goes far beyond its aesthetics. She was built in 1950, making her one of the last major steam locomotives to be built in the US, she's even six years younger than UP844.
With steam coming to the Northern Region of Norfolk Southern this year, I find it very unlikely that NS doesn't plan to continue expanding the program. All this "borrowing" of steam engines around the country... TVRM 630 and NKP 765... suggests that NS is taking the plans slowly... testing the waters as it were, to ensure things can be pulled off without impacting operations too greatly. Then, and only then do I believe that they would be willing to commit to a larger program, perhaps to the point of their own shops being opened.
As for the original termination in '94, I've heard conflicting rumors and have decided that the best course of action is to just let it rest. There is no point stirring up the pot, potentially annoying the wrong individual who then tries to kill the new program. 18 years after the fact, is there any good that can come from rehashing the old tragedy?
As for the GCR4960, restoring her to her original Burlington "look" would be impossible without a MAJOR 5million+ rebuild. Many of the cosmetic changes took place as a result of the internal reconstruction which the railway did, making her the ultimate steam locomotive in operation at the time she re entered service. Her technological details make the 4960 the closest thing to a Second Generation steam locomotive as classed by L.D. Porta and David Wardale.
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J.D. Gallaway -- http://me.fccorp.us
Matt3985;
"...Plus I'm new here and I love the old time Norfolk Southern Steam program but i was born to far away in Chicago and I was only 2 when they NS stopped the Steam program in 1994..."
Matt, sounds as if you have a nice collection to commemorate the NS (nee: N&W/Southern Rwy) Steam program. In its heyday it was really something, and was fully supported by their Steam BackShop at Birmingham, Al.
Not only were the the 611(J-Class) and the 1218 (A) its really hardworking stars,of the N&W RR Original steam program. The Southern Rwy's4501 toured the Southeast for the Southern Rwy (now at TVRM).
The T&P RR # 610 which was leased for the Southern Rwy's Program as #610 of Southern Rwy. in 1977, and was run throughout the Southeast; it is a former T&P RR 2-10-4 Texas Type. It along with the SP 4449 (GS-2 Type) and the Reading (T-1) 2101 were used on the American Freedom Train Tour in 1976. It now resides in the Collection of the Texas Railroad museum near Palestine,Tx.
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=399443&nseq=2
Leo_Ames And while a mere shadow of what it once was, steam is alive and well on the Grand Canyon Railway. The 4960 has been undergoing its 15 year overhaul and inspection this winter and returned to service two weeks ago for a special Centennial Run. Plans are to keep her around for at least the next 15 years. She isn't retired.
And while a mere shadow of what it once was, steam is alive and well on the Grand Canyon Railway. The 4960 has been undergoing its 15 year overhaul and inspection this winter and returned to service two weeks ago for a special Centennial Run. Plans are to keep her around for at least the next 15 years. She isn't retired.
If only it looked like what it did when it ran on the Burlington excursions instead of the "facelift" they gave it.
Are you sure. Can you confirm that.
Plus Im new here and I love the old time Norfolk Southern Steam program but i was born to far away in chicago and I was only 2 when they NS stoped the Steam program in 1994 so I missed it all but I am fasinated with all the books and videos I collected about the engines used in the program and I was wondering if the 21st Centrey program does bring back N&W #611. Will N&W #1218 be next or will she be on display forever since she is mostly discribed on the insided an empty shell because of the stop restoration work in 1994.
I was at the Virginia Museum of Transportation today and (finger's crossed) in 1-2 years, the staff was saying that 611 will join Norfolk Southern's 21st Century Steam Program. No joke!
The Grand Canyon Railway isn't government owned and operated. None of what the last poster said is correct.
The operation was sold over 5 years ago to a company called Xanterra Parks with plans to continue operations unchanged and keep everyone employed. Fast forward to the Fall of 2008 with the economy imploding. They killed off steam to trim cost and portrayed it as a move to make the railroad more green, allowing them to fire some very skilled shop personel and cease their plans to restore the SP&S steamer they had acquired in trade. What you read about was this.
I'm not sure if the 29 has operated since or has remained on static display, but the 4960 has been ran in special excursions since then due to her excellent condition and they plan to use her for many more years and like I already stated, overhauled her this winter. Since then she has burnt waste vegetable oil in order to appear more environmentally friendly. Wouldn't surprise me if the 29 occasionally gets used as well since they invested a lot into her in the middle part of the last decade and their website seems to suggest that she remains operable.
And you can bet that if Union Pacific's board of directors ever thought the steam program wasn't pulling its own weight (Which is one reason they focus on things for employee morale, community events, and so on instead of railfans) that it would be killed off. And insurance not being an issue for excursions? Not sure what planet you're posting from, but it must not be this one. If you were to rank all the issues facing steam operations in 2012 (Or 10, 20, or 30 years ago), insurance cost is close to or at the top of the list. And we're not talking about insuring for the value of the locomotive, we're talking about insurance to protect the company from claims in the event of something like an accident. Insurance cost is widely believed to have been the primary reason Norfolk Southern killed off its original steam program.
A lot of good discussion here and many good points brought up. I think I could shed some light on a few things including the Union Pacific steam program.
First people seem to not realize the incredible expenses of new locomotives and cars. A new locomotive costs upward of over 3 million. A new rail car is averaging over $200,000 dollars a piece. So if we are going to talk about insurance rates believe me a steam locomotive is not going to be valued at anywhere near 3 million dollars. The 611 is probably insured for no more than a million if that. I am also not even sure if railroads carry that much insurance since they have assets worth billions and profits worth billions. If they have a accident then they pay for it out of their own pockets. So I don't believe the insurance would be a issue at all.
The Union Pacific steam program is alive and well and there is no plans on downsizing or eliminating it. I visit the UP steam shop on a regular basis and they told me that they are allowed a million dollars a year to run the program. They can spend it all or not spend anything. Either way they get a million a year. Considering a million is peanuts to a company that makes upward of 10 billion a year and over a billion in profits every year. I would say the UP program is good for at least another 10 years.
The Norfolk and Southern has had record profits as well. I don't believe spending a million for their steam program would be a problem. From what I have heard and read the Norfolk Southern steam program when it was in operation was largely due to one of the NS Presidents(or it could have been a CEO) supporting it. When he died the program ended. It certainly wasn't about costs or liability issues.
I think the main reason the Norfolk and Western steam program isn't up and running is largely because the Presidents, CEO's, and board members probably don't even know it ever existed except for a few of them. I bet if you would talk to all of them and ask them about the old steam program hardly anyone would know what you were talking about. They wouldn't know about the 611 and the 1218 because the majority of those people come from other companies like Amazon and Meryl lynch to serve as Presidents and board members.
As far as the Grand canyon railroad. They are run by the state government by the park service. A few years ago when Global warming was getting crammed up everyones orifice they decided they would go green. They tried running their steam locomotive by burning some sort of canola oil or something. That didn't work out so they decided to just stop running it except on special occasions. Now that global warming is dead and buried the Grand canyon doesn't need to be so political correct and will be running steam again on a limited basis.
I must apologize if I'm somehow misinformed, but I just either read or saw a news story that Grand Canyon Railway was going diesel only and that all steam was going to be parked due to "environmental concerns"...it may have been posted as a topic on the Atlas model train forum, just a few weeks ago.
A number of people were rather upset about it.
So which is correct? Please let me know.
Regarding NS, ok, perhaps I missed any announcement of a program--but I don't see them spending $400,000 or more to get a big one running, no matter how wonderfully efficient (yes, I am fully aware of that) it might be--that's money they don't have to spend when there are other engines with flue time remaining that can already run. Time will tell.
John
John, considering that Norfolk Southern has a new steam program, the prospects for the 611 are brighter than they have been in years. Your entire post sounds like you're unaware of this, but they have a new steam program. The reasons mentioned as pitfalls for a Class 1 running steam is precisely why she would be desirable if you were to run steam. If you're going to run a steam excursion, you want it to have as little risk and impact on your mainline freights as possible.
That's a positive in favor of the 611, not a negative. She's more modern, more powerful, and more reliable thanks to things like all of her roller bearings. She's better able to coexist on the mainline with all of NS's double stacks and such than something like the 4501, a 2-8-2 Mikado that was built in the early teens.
Of course I don't think she's coming back anytime soon. But the very fact they're cooperating with the Tennesse Valley Railroad Museum and will be utilizing their three steamers in a modern steam program surely isn't a negative when debating her future. Let's hope they get everything and more out of their current program to brighten the prospects further of something like the 611 polishing their rails again.
It is true when a special non-scheduled passenger train is run on a scheduled freight railroad it can cause delay. A few months ago I was running one of our hottest piggybacks on the system when I was told by the dispatcher that I was going to be held for an employee special being pulled by our F-units. The train I was running was two miles long that day and was handling quite a good bit of time sensitive trailers. Delaying this train for an hour by any opposing train was unheard of any day of the week but that is exactly what happened.
Time sensitive traffic that must arrive at a terminal, be grounded and available for the customer is one reason railroads are hesitant to run fan trips over high volume/high velocity corridors. Even still, our president and CEO recognizes these trips can prove to be great ambassadors for our industry. Hopefully, with enough resources made available to get these large steam engines running again they will find a way to make it back to the high iron.
bubbajustin Ahhhh I see! So the management just lot interest. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that if NS wants public relations, more people will come out to see the 611 as opposed to a weenie-little Consolidation. No offense to the 630. I still love her. Good lookin locomotive.
Ahhhh I see! So the management just lot interest. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that if NS wants public relations, more people will come out to see the 611 as opposed to a weenie-little Consolidation.
No offense to the 630. I still love her. Good lookin locomotive.
It's not simply about "management losing interest". It's more a case of management not wanting to risk ANY mishap at all that could possibly tie up a freight railroad. I have spoken to several current railroaders, and the consensus is, as has publicly been stated very clearly, that both CSX and NS want no steam power on their rails. I don't think it matters to them whose engine it is or how good it is, with limited exceptions, they just don't want them on their railroads. I just don't believe 611 will ever be back; just as I don't believe the PRR 1361 will ever run again.
Regarding the increased federal boiler regulations--that is specifically due to some not very smart employees of the Gettysburg Railroad in Pennsylvania who were not adequately operating and maintaining their steam power, which subsequently exploded--and could have been a very bad scene had passengers been involved. Therefore, the U.S. government decided to protect steam locomotive operators, or would be operators, from themselves. The Gettysburg Railroad wrecked things for everybody.
I'm sad too that the game has changed, insurance costs have skyrocketed, etc. However, the prevailing local sentiment where I happen to live is that the minute Union Pacific merges with one of the eastern roads, that will likely be the death of the UP Steam Program.
I hope that is not the case; I somehow hope that when that day finally comes the UP is the big fish in any merger transaction, and steam power gets retained--but most of my railfan buddies are not holding out much hope.
I never saw 611 or 1218 run--was in college then and/or had no money to travel...never saw UP 3985 or 844 yet either...never got to ride behind a Berk in the New River Gorge.
Did get to ride Grand Canyon Railway in the dome car behind steam, but now that beautiful 4960 is done, too. What a shame--it was a truly amazing restoration--it looked like a brand new engine.
Mikec6201 Oh, and there are no other N&W clas J's around. You may be thinking of three old N&W 4-8-0's that were recovered from a Roanoke scrapyard not too long ago. One operates today on the Strasburg Railroad in Pennsylvania. 1134 was moved to Portsmouth Va in 2009 and was cosmeticly restored (The Strasburg 4-8-0 is not one of these locos. 475 has been at Strasburg since 1991.....Mike)
Oh, and there are no other N&W clas J's around. You may be thinking of three old N&W 4-8-0's that were recovered from a Roanoke scrapyard not too long ago. One operates today on the Strasburg Railroad in Pennsylvania.
1134 was moved to Portsmouth Va in 2009 and was cosmeticly restored
(The Strasburg 4-8-0 is not one of these locos. 475 has been at Strasburg since 1991.....Mike)
The Strasburg 4-8-0 is not one of these locos. 475 has been at Strasburg since 1991.....Mike
The road to to success is always under construction. _____________________________________________________________________________ When the going gets tough, the tough use duct tape.
Per bubbajustin's comment: All steam excursions had problems with insurance in the late 80's, early 90's, not just Norfolk Southern. But ways were found around it. One result of the Great Dismal Swamp wreck was a speed limit set on NS excursions. Prior to the wreck the excursions were allowed to run as fast as track conditions allowed. After the wreck a speed limit of 45mph was set. At any rate, according to Mr. Jim McClellan what really killed the excursion program was a lack of enthusiasm for it by NS management, they felt it was getting in the way of regular operations and becoming more trouble than it was worth. McClellan was very much in favor of the program but as a junior VP didn't have much pull to keep it alive. Add to that the passing of Bob, and then Graham Claytor and the program didn't have any more friends to speak for it. Now with the Wick Moorman regime, I suppose anything is possible, but as I said in an earlier post I'm hoping, but not holding my breath. And you bet, 611 on the head end of a Tuscan Red consist IS the most beautiful train in the world!
A good point has been brought up. When the 611's cars picked that switch near the Great Dismal Swamp, insurance rates went though the roof! I bet that insurance would be astronomical!
And I totally agree with the most beautiful train in the world comment!
Long live the 611!
-Justin
Fla RailFan Great video! Thanks.
Great video! Thanks.
Oh, you're very welcome! I didn't post it, found it by accident doing some You Tube exploring, but I just had to let evryone else know about it.
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