Modeling the "Fargo Area Rapid Transit" in O scale 3 rail.
Boyd wrote:Just saw the History channel feature on the 2 1850s 2-2-2s sitting in the ocean about 5 miles off of the NJ shore. Very interesting. Anyone know if there are efforts to retrieve them from the ocean floor?
Action has been taken to make it illegal to retrieve the locomotives or any parts thereof, under applicable maritime law.
This is not a new program. A couple of years ago I corresponded with the people who did the diving (after seeing them on the History Channel) and was given the above information. The box of lollipops turned out to be the eccentric rods for the valve gear.
Chuck
tomikawaTT wrote: Boyd wrote:Just saw the History channel feature on the 2 1850s 2-2-2s sitting in the ocean about 5 miles off of the NJ shore. Very interesting. Anyone know if there are efforts to retrieve them from the ocean floor?Action has been taken to make it illegal to retrieve the locomotives or any parts thereof, under applicable maritime law.This is not a new program. A couple of years ago I corresponded with the people who did the diving (after seeing them on the History Channel) and was given the above information. The box of lollipops turned out to be the eccentric rods for the valve gear.Chuck
Seems like a waste to have left such rare engines down there. They raised the Hunley, Such efforts could be done to put them in a proper place
-Morgan
I was closely following this story a few years ago when the engines were first discovered and the was a lot of research underway to date the engines and determine why they are on the bottom of the ocean. The last I heard, there were plans to recover them. I would like to see them recovered and preserved as historical artifacts, leaving them more or less in the condition they are in now. However, it might be a bit of a challenge to stabilize them once they are taken out of the water. But even as they are in the ocean, the salt water must be eating them up. I did not hear that they ever discovered the history of the engines or the circumstances of their loss, but it has become clear that they are incredibly ancient. I seem to recall hearing that both locomotives are identical, standing upright, and were brand new when lost.
Technically, the locomotives on the sea floor are 'arrested,' which I understand to mean that any salvage attempts will have to have the official sanction of the State of New Jersey and the Coast Guard, as well as the permission of the original discoverer(s). Anyone who casually cruises up with a 100-ton seagoing crane and starts attempting to raise them without dotting the Is and crossing the Ts is likely to get a good look at the lands and grooves of an M2 machine gun (mounted on a USCG patrol boat.)
Several comments were made about the fact that the locomotives are upright. Take a quick look at the hydrodynamics. Here we have an approximately cylindrical, airtight container, with a bunch of heavy machinery hanging off the bottom of it. In addition, all of the fire tubes are located in the lower portion of the boiler's volume. I would assume that they were loaded aboard ship with the boilers drained (to reduce weight, especially if they were being carried as deck cargo.) So, the flotation is at the top, and the weight is at the bottom. Unless the water was too shallow to allow it, a jettisoned steam locomotive would, of elegant necessity, arrive at the bottom in an upright position.
Chuck (long ago Merchant Marine cadet)
tomikawaTT wrote: Technically, the locomotives on the sea floor are 'arrested,' which I understand to mean that any salvage attempts will have to have the official sanction of the State of New Jersey and the Coast Guard, as well as the permission of the original discoverer(s). Anyone who casually cruises up with a 100-ton seagoing crane and starts attempting to raise them without dotting the Is and crossing the Ts is likely to get a good look at the lands and grooves of an M2 machine gun (mounted on a USCG patrol boat.)Several comments were made about the fact that the locomotives are upright. Take a quick look at the hydrodynamics. Here we have an approximately cylindrical, airtight container, with a bunch of heavy machinery hanging off the bottom of it. In addition, all of the fire tubes are located in the lower portion of the boiler's volume. I would assume that they were loaded aboard ship with the boilers drained (to reduce weight, especially if they were being carried as deck cargo.) So, the flotation is at the top, and the weight is at the bottom. Unless the water was too shallow to allow it, a jettisoned steam locomotive would, of elegant necessity, arrive at the bottom in an upright position.Chuck (long ago Merchant Marine cadet)
tomikawaTT, thanks for that information. Arresting them sounds like it is probably a good thing in the context of any responsible plan for their recovery and preservation. Otherwise, their would likely be souvenir hunters picking them over in the meantime. Your explanation of why they are standing upright seems logical.
While it hasn't had the play of the engines off the NJ coast (probably because their exact location isn't known) there are a number of 1850's era engines on the bottom of Lake Erie. Several years ago John White wrote a short article for R&LHS about these engines - most are there as a result of being dumped overboard during storms on the lake. The nice thing about these engines - assuming you could find them - is that they are "stored" in cold fresh water as opposed to salt water.
mersenne6 wrote: While it hasn't had the play of the engines off the NJ coast (probably because their exact location isn't known) there are a number of 1850's era engines on the bottom of Lake Erie. Several years ago John White wrote a short article for R&LHS about these engines - most are there as a result of being dumped overboard during storms on the lake. The nice thing about these engines - assuming you could find them - is that they are "stored" in cold fresh water as opposed to salt water.
I have heard some inconclusive references to locomotives in the Great Lakes, but I don't beleive they were what you are referring to. Were the 1850s era engines lost in one shipwreck or were they involved in different incidents? I have read a lot about Great Lakes shipwrecks. In addition to wrecks that have been documented and discovered, there are ones documented, but never found, and ones that have been found, but cannot be identified. Some have not been found, but their location is generally known. Some of the documented simply "went missing," so nobody has any idea what actually happened to them or where they are.
Finding a lost locomotive as a kind of time capsule is something that has always appealed to me.
The engines in the article by White are on the bottom because they were cut loose from deck storage to save the ship during a storm. If I'm remembering correctly the locomotives are the result of several such storms and not just one storm in particular. I'll have to see if I still have that issue of the journal.
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