Trains.com

NYC Central Empire State Express Question

6238 views
8 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: US
  • 44 posts
NYC Central Empire State Express Question
Posted by nicknoyes on Saturday, March 15, 2008 10:01 AM

I read in a book titled, Thoroughbreds, that the New York Central Empire State Express passenger train of late 1941 introduced new Budd built passenger cars with fluted aluminum sides. This consist including two Tavern Lounge Observation cars one named for Theodore Roosevelt the other for Franklin D. Roosevelt. Did these Observation cars continue to operate until the merger in 1967? What happened to these two cars?

Thank you in advance for any information you may have.

Nick

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: heart of the Pere Marquette
  • 847 posts
Posted by J. Edgar on Saturday, March 15, 2008 11:41 AM
 acording to Don Ball Jr's Decade of the Trains; the 1940's as of 1967 1 or 2 of the original coaches were alive in Mexico but the Ob's cars " no one can find the Observation car"
i love the smell of coal smoke in the morning Photobucket
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: US
  • 44 posts
Posted by nicknoyes on Monday, March 17, 2008 1:28 PM

Thank you J. Edgar

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 20,084 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, March 19, 2008 3:30 PM
The train was inaugurated in service on December 7th 1941, the same day as the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.   It was an all-Budd coach and parlor streamliner, with the observation lounge car having a parlor section.  Two J3a locomotives had distinctive streamlining for the train.  NYC had ordered additional coaches, and the consist was lengthened.   During the war the train's run was extended west from Buffalo to both Cleveland and Detroit, with the obs going to Cleveland.   As soon as Niagras were available, they handled the Harmon to Buffalo leg with Hudsons used at both  Detroit and Cleveland to and from Buffalo.  When riding slacked off, sometime in the early '60's, I believe, the New York - Albany leg was combined with the Laurentian, and the parlor-obs began running between NY and Montreal, available to ESE patrons only between NY and Albany.  Before being sold to Mexico, one or both of these cars would occasionally be used as a Poughkeepsie - NY commuter club car.
  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Mpls/St.Paul
  • 13,873 posts
Posted by wjstix on Monday, March 24, 2008 8:12 AM
An unfortunate turn of events for the railroad, they decided to invite the press to a special big unveiling run of the train 12/07/41 figuring they would get more publicity than usual, since Sundays were always slow news days. Oops !!
Stix
  • Member since
    January 2002
  • 4,612 posts
Posted by M636C on Monday, March 31, 2008 8:20 AM

In Arthur Dubin's book "More Classic Trains" on page 472, there is a photo of NdeM dining car "Villa Rica" ex NYC Diner "John Jay" ex the 1941 Empire State Express. On facing page 473 there is a photo of Budd observation car NdeM "Club Coahuila" which is described as ex NYC but not otherwise identified. It might be one of the "Roosevelt" cars but I don't know for sure.

I'm pretty sure that there was a colour cover photo on Trains magazine during the 1970s of a Budd observation in Mexico but again I am not sure whether it was ex the Empire State Express.

M636C

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: US
  • 44 posts
Posted by nicknoyes on Thursday, April 3, 2008 4:39 AM

Hi M636C,

Thank you for the info!!

Nick 

 

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Jacksonville, FL
  • 493 posts
Posted by RRCharlie on Monday, May 12, 2008 10:09 AM

nicknoyes;

It has taken me weeks to find the book I was looking for: "New York Central's Great Steel Fleet 1948-1967" by Geoffrey H. Doughty.

The Theodore Roosevelt and Franklin D. Roosevelt Observation/Bar/Lounge cars from the Empire State Express were retired in 1958 and then sold to the National Railways of Mexico.

Mel Hazen; Jax, FL Ride Amtrak. It's the only way to fly!!!

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: US
  • 44 posts
Posted by nicknoyes on Monday, May 12, 2008 4:33 PM

RR Charlie,

Thank you very much for your research. I was happy to receive your response.

 Nick

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy