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611 speed

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Posted by LNER4472 on Monday, June 1, 2015 9:04 PM

One issue NOT addressed so far:
When 611 was first returned to service in the 1980s, the speed on 611 was set, according to multiple sources back then, as "track speed on tangents, 10 mph below rated/restricted speed on curves."  This is because 611 has a highwer center of gravity, a foot or so higher than contemporary diesels of the '80s, and superelevation that had formerly been used on curves in steam days had been done away with in the interim.  This restriction meant that 611 was decidedly not a difficult loco to chase on curvy track (such as the Front Royal line she;ll be on this weekend), but could run on straight track like the former MKP, where I once clocked her at over 60 mph on a parallel road between Erie and Conneaut in the mid-1980s.
Has anyone heard any update on this?

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Posted by vbeach on Tuesday, June 2, 2015 2:00 AM

We were on one of the excursions in the 1980's between Norfolk and Petersburg prior to the 611 being slowed down and we were running around 85mph at one point coming back to Norfolk on the long straight and it was smooth as could be.

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Posted by oltmannd on Tuesday, June 2, 2015 12:13 PM

BaltACD

Can't speak to NS practice.  On my carrier the only sub-divisions that have Passenger train Speed, have scheduled passenger trains.  All other sub-divisions only have freight train speeds and intermodal speeds.

 

Same on NS.  It was that way on Conrail, too.

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by oltmannd on Tuesday, June 2, 2015 12:53 PM

Looks like Saturday's trip ran at 40 mph.  Fastest speed by any OS was 37 mph.

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by Sunnyland on Wednesday, June 10, 2015 10:16 AM

I'll be riding with #611 on Sat and look forward to it, no matter how fast or slow we'll be going.  She looks fast on the videos I've seen, those drivers are pumping up and down and rolling. Wish I could have seen steamers back in the day when they would have opened them up on the big name trains like Chiefs 

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Posted by BigJim on Wednesday, June 10, 2015 8:37 PM

Wizlish
If I remember correctly, the locomotive was service-balanced for 'acceptable' augment up to 520 rpm and designed for 540 rpm (this not representing a speed the locomotive would actually reach, but the point at which peak vertical augment would just equal downward 'preload' of weight on drivers; above that speed you could expect to see 'bounce'...)  If that is wrong, someone (like BigJim) insert the correct information.


Wizlish,
I found the articles that have what I think you are looking for.
They are:
N&W Class J 4-8-4 Locomotive 
Railroad mechanical Engineer
June, 1945

And just as importantly:
The Most Advanced 4-8-4?
W.L. Withuhn
Railfan & Railroad Magazine
March, 1983

Hope this helps.

.

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Posted by Wizlish on Wednesday, June 10, 2015 9:33 PM

Thanks and much appreciated.

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Posted by Sunnyland on Friday, June 19, 2015 9:48 AM

We were on the train Sat. 6-13, hard to tell how fast we were going, but did a short chase on Sun after filming her near Appomattox and she was moving, looks like 100 mph on video, but know it is not. Big thrill was to meet Bob Saxten and get a pic taken with him and later meeting Cheri George and getting a pic with her.  She's a small lady, not what I'd expect a woman fireman to look like, but she gets the job done.  She fired for part of the trips that weekend.  

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Posted by groomer man on Sunday, August 9, 2015 8:47 PM
Yeah but what a fundraiser that would be to see the 611 and 844 do a standing start to 5 miles
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Posted by Firelock76 on Monday, August 10, 2015 6:23 PM

Hmmm, a drag race between 611 and 844, presumeably on paralell tracks.

Wouldn't be a smart thing to do.  But it WOULD be cool!

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, August 11, 2015 6:51 AM

I can already hear the mudchicken crying, "My track, My track".

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by JACOB LONGANECKER on Wednesday, August 12, 2015 1:14 AM

I find it somewhat hipocritical of NS to allow one steam engine to break their own rules of "40 Mph Max, no exceptions" and not others.  I'm sure everyone would like to see the whole group of steamers NS allows on their tracks to go faster than they are allowed to go now.  Maybe letting it go above 40 Mph will only be allowed this year.  Either way, picking favorites tends to lead to animosity.

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Posted by oltmannd on Wednesday, August 12, 2015 12:17 PM

JACOB LONGANECKER

I find it somewhat hipocritical of NS to allow one steam engine to break their own rules of "40 Mph Max, no exceptions" and not others.  I'm sure everyone would like to see the whole group of steamers NS allows on their tracks to go faster than they are allowed to go now.  Maybe letting it go above 40 Mph will only be allowed this year.  Either way, picking favorites tends to lead to animosity.

 

Pretty sure they're not "picking favorites".  40 mph is it for public excursions.  My guess is they allowed a bit more on the shake-down run as a bit of a "stress test".  NS has done a pretty good job of "spreading the wealth" between 4501, 611 and 765.

Also remember these are all part of the "21st Century Steam" program which is tailored to give employees around the system a chance to ride.  Once the system is covered, who knows what's next?

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by Firelock76 on Wednesday, August 12, 2015 5:55 PM

The 40mph speed limit is there I'm sure for safety and probably insurance reasons.

However, I'm reminded of an article I read back around 1990 or so about the Blue Mountain and Reading and their steam runs with #425.  Andy Muller, the president of the 'road said that 425 was capable of going much, much faster, but the passengers wanted the ride to last, so they didn't run over 45 mph.  I'm sure the present day riders of the NS steam excursion program want their rides to last as well.

After it's '80s rebuild 425 was supposed to have been capable (theoretically) of 80 mph.

 

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Posted by BigJim on Thursday, August 13, 2015 2:01 PM

Firelock76
The 40mph speed limit is there I'm sure for safety and probably insurance reasons.

Yes, that has a lot to do with it. What Jacob probably doesn't realize is that over the years a lot of "elevation" has been taken out of the curves, creating the lower speed limit on curves. And, remember, the 40 mph speed restriction didn't happen until after the Dismal Swamp accident. Who knows what other track realignments have been put in place since 1959.

.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, August 14, 2015 6:49 AM

I personally know of at least one situation where the superelevation of a curve was reduced after the last passenger train was discontinued.  It probably helped that there were at least two derailments involving daisy-chaining of piggyback flats at that location.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Deggesty on Friday, August 14, 2015 4:05 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH

I personally know of at least one situation where the superelevation of a curve was reduced after the last passenger train was discontinued.  It probably helped that there were at least two derailments involving daisy-chaining of piggyback flats at that location.

 

Was that the Monon? Back in '78, I rode the Floridian from Nashville to Chicago (it should have been from Birmingham to Chicago, but some towboat pilot (was he a cub?) had hit the Southern's bridge at Decatur, so the northbound was turned at Birmingham, and the southbound was turned at Nashville.

After we left Louisville, I was talking with flagman, and he told me that the superelevation was long gone; I do not remember if he said it was the L&N that lowered the rails or if it had, indeed, been done after the last Chicago-Louisville passenger train had run.

Johnny

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Saturday, August 15, 2015 6:47 AM

The curve in question was on the CWI at 130th Street where it ducks under the South Shore.  The "Lake Cities" was the last passenger train in question.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by nsecbuengineer on Monday, August 17, 2015 6:51 PM

Let's put this issue to bed right now. NS system timetable effective January 1, 2015 states:"All steam locomotives........40 mph". This restriction has been in the timetable for years. It was in place when the 611 and the 1218 were in excursion service in the 80s and 90s. 

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, August 17, 2015 8:31 PM

nsecbuengineer

Let's put this issue to bed right now. NS system timetable effective January 1, 2015 states:"All steam locomotives........40 mph". This restriction has been in the timetable for years. It was in place when the 611 and the 1218 were in excursion service in the 80s and 90s.

And like any other TTIS or Rule, it can be changed by Superintendent's Bulletin or Train Message (formerly called Train Order).

If the powers that be want a higher speed authorized, the tools exist to properly implement that higher speed; the tools can also be used to be more restrictive if that is desired.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by oltmannd on Tuesday, August 25, 2015 2:26 PM

nsecbuengineer

Let's put this issue to bed right now. NS system timetable effective January 1, 2015 states:"All steam locomotives........40 mph". This restriction has been in the timetable for years. It was in place when the 611 and the 1218 were in excursion service in the 80s and 90s. 

 

And, 40 mph has been the rule since that first, test run.  It really did operate at 50 mph for a good bit. 

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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