S. Connor Where I'm from its a term meaning "Big deal" or "so what".
Where I'm from its a term meaning "Big deal" or "so what".
Fair question, if ambiguously put. It's of interest to me because I had hoped it would be ready on time, and this delay suggests some new information that is not being shared. Is it budgetary concerns, motivation to completion, lack of parts, some other impetus or hindrance? I'm sharing these concerns, if laconically. If it's of no interest to you, may I suggest you just remain silent?
A very fair question, this is a forum for discussion, if certain parties are not concern then they should move along. We all hope she is done on time. Half the fun will be following her progress.
My biggest concern is she is done before I am dead lol. Let's keep our fingers crossed.
selector S. Connor Where I'm from its a term meaning "Big deal" or "so what". Fair question, if ambiguously put. It's of interest to me because I had hoped it would be ready on time, and this delay suggests some new information that is not being shared. Is it budgetary concerns, motivation to completion, lack of parts, some other impetus or hindrance? I'm sharing these concerns, if laconically. If it's of no interest to you, may I suggest you just remain silent?
No matter the concern from anyone on the 'outside' - it will be done when it is done. C&O 1309 won't be completed 'On Time', but it will be done when it is done.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Any project, from typing a post to rebuilding a steamer will be done when it is done. What's the point. Except me and I will be dead when I am done. No offense intended.
Watching and following a big project can be interesting. Reminds me of the days of when they would be building a new project downtown. thier were little Windows cut in the plywood along the side walk so you could monitor the progress. They never painted on the walls" it will be done when it's done" cause we kinda of knew that from the get go. The beauty for us outsiders was to see and talk about the progress.
Just a thought.
ROBERT WILLISON Watching and following a big project can be interesting. Reminds me of the days of when they would be building a new project downtown. thier were little Windows cut in the plywood along the side walk so you could monitor the progress. They never painted on the walls" it will be done when it's done" cause we kinda of knew that from the get go. The beauty for us outsiders was to see and talk about the progress. Just a thought.
So what your saying is that the steam locomotive rebuilding project is kind of like a model railroad layout? That a lot of the enjoyment is in its planning and construction?
Perhaps if the Union Pacific were just a tiny bit more open about what is taking place with 4014, that may pay dividends in enthusiasm of their fan base? That finally seeing this fine locomotive in operation is the end goal, but that fans would draw satisfaction from knowing about the different phases, challenges met, and milestones in this restoration, even if this is taking multiple years? Just like the satisfaction that model train hobbyists derive from the construction phase of a layout?
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
That's the ticket.
We'll, I suppose at worst we will know it is getting closer when the SD70M gets renumbered.
Actually, they did a decent job with video updates on 844. Hopefully they will continue that practice.
i seem to recall a comment somewhere from a YouTube presentation by Mr. Dickens that restoring 4014 was almost like restoring two locomotives at once because of the double running gear and steam delivery and exhaust systems.
So in that regard it is understandable that it would take longer with a fixed restoration crew size.
But in a perfect world it would indeed be nice to see it steaming on a system-wide tour in 2019 for UP's 150th.
kgbw49i seem to recall a comment somewhere from a YouTube presentation by Mr. Dickens that restoring 4014 was almost like restoring two locomotives at once because of the double running gear and steam delivery and exhaust systems.
Yes, but all the pieces get done in parallel, so you use twice the people (or the same people machining the pieces twice with the same setup) and the actual process time is not significantly different. All the quality assurance and testing is done substantially at the same time, too, so all the Bene Gesserit TQM that held up 844 won't increment the time needed for 4014. Note that this is a definite case where 'throwing money' at an issue will produce desired time savings ... and UP has both the money and the motivation.
I thought some of the anti-Dickens sentiment would ease down after 844 demonstrated it could be run long distances without disaster. Perhaps there will be enough equine cantation by the time of the sesquicentennial to continue the easing. I'm proceeding on the assumption that the work on 844 was prioritized over 4014, and now that 844 is stable, work on 4014 will proceed until done. (And that only after the PR benefits from 4014 have been obtained, 3985 will get priority attention ... so we need not go there now. Just be assured that 3985 is not expected to be 'plinthed' before running quite a while more...) So I will wait at least a year and a half to see how far they get, and what they set up, before joining back in from the armchair.
West Coast SAll four thousands were delivered as coal burners, 4005 was selected for conversion using a burner from a FEF, fuel consumption not performance doomed the project..
I'm glad you have the test information proving this, because everything I've seen 'in the past' said that the single-burner attempt was a disaster (not dissimilar to the problems with the industrial burner on ex-RDG 2100, too little luminous flame with the wrong concentrations in the wrong places. I've been looking for the definitive test results for over 20 years, and look forward now to having you summarize or post them.
I called my buddy that is in the Steam Shop last night. Here is what he said when he got back to me. The entire crew is on 12 hour shifts until 4014 is done per UP headquarters. They want her up and running by 2019 and to as Ed was told to HELL with the Overtime costs get her up and running. For the oil burner they are going to use a Modified version of the one that is in the 3985 as they are fairly close in size according to their own measurements. The firebox is 26% longer but 11% narrower overall according to the measurements they have so about 15% overall larger. They will get it done on time. Budget is not a concern for them.
Great news, so much better than it will be done when it is done.
Now that is good news indeed!
Roll on, 4014!
They are working 60 hour weeks their normal days on and off but 12 hour shifts to get her done then going to do the same thing on 3985 to get her done. All the managers are right there beside them running needle guns and whatever else is needed to get the jobs done as fast as possible but doing the jobs the right way they put in with 844 in the last 3 years. He said he can remove a staybolt cover in his sleep right now.
The UP's steam program sounds quite a bit more concerted and serious than I had understood.* I am pleased to learn that the article I read is either incorrect or simply no longer the case.
*I don't mean that I never felt they were serious about their work or about keeping a viable heritage steam program, only that comparatively, it seems even more intense and motivated than I had understood it to be, particularly from on high.
Shadow the Cats ownerThe firebox is 26% longer but 11% narrower overall
Wow, 26%. I wouldn't have thought there was that much difference in length. I would have gueesd it would be more like 10%.
Trains, trains, wonderful trains. The more you get, the more you toot!
Well they took 844 down to the frame found a bunch of issues moved 4014 to Cheyenne plus rebuilt the shop and installed a complete new QC practice in less than 3 years on that one. They now make their own Staybolts out of cerified materials. I also found out last night via another call that they have approval for new Drivers not just the tires New Axles Pistons and rods New driving rods and all the side rods. They are also looking at possibly having new tender trucks made to replace the ones under the Centipede tenders. Think about that UP is willing to spend whatever it takes to keep these engines in good repair. Basically Ed is told whatever it takes spend it right now.
West Coast Sa two burner design does exist that could fulfill a 4000;s requirements courtesy of the late Espee which developed and licensed a sucessfull burner and jet system used on all of its late model steam but excelled on the AC's and 4400's
Does the preserved AC at CSRM have the GyroJet setup? Presumably there are key differences between that arrangement and the system as applied to 4449.
The GyroJet is a conical mechanical setup, and I would appreciate anyone giving me the actual patent number(s) applying to it. The difficulty here, as with a Racer burner, is that because the plume is three-dimensional, it is difficult to stage multiple burners depending on load (in the same way some of the SP&S Challengers apparently did it) while avoiding the kind of massive crown-sheet differential thermal stress that the Thomas setup applied to 4005 caused. Presumably one approach is to have multiple von Boden-Ingles burners at different distances from the throat; it is interesting to consider what is needed for a mechanical or even swirl burner to survive if directed through what is now the grate space...
If I remember correctly,
My boy is 6.
I told him that if we can ride behind a Big Boy on Sherman Hill, we will be there!
I would love to see 844, 3985 and 4014 in steam together and i hope I get the chance.
Union Pacific is truly the last bastion of steam in the land and I want to see it continue.
Certainly abastion of main line stream. Impressive how the have improved their steam shop. Seem to be into for the long haul .
But you can't rule out the cumbres and Toltec as a bastion of narrow gauge steam.
But hope to be standing right next to you and your son when the 4014 returns to life.
Before the Big Boy 4014 restoration is finished in 2019, I wanted to post what I consider one the the best musical tributes to the Big Boy 4014. This is by a Rockabilly band from Orange Country California.
This video was made when the 4014 was still in Pomona Ca. being prepared to move across the NHRA parking lot to the L.A. Metro Rail tracks for its unpowered trip to Cheyenne Wyoming. I watched the whole thing day by day and was there until 3 AM as the tracks were cut and 4014 was towed onto the national rail system by a UP-- SP Legacy diesel locomotive.
These guys love the Big Boy and trains in general. It shows with their great (and funny) tribute to the Big Boy with some Johnny Cash and country music influences as well as rock influences from the MTV era as "The Clash" of England as you will see below.
They deserve recognition for their sincere love of this steam locomotive and trains. It is not fake. These guys are Big Boy and train fanatics, and so very musically talented too. They also have a few other videos about trains and some other subjects, all professional quality.
Enjoy "The Ballad of the Big Boy"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHzN7UCjki8
For more trains tribute humor also watch
"Whatever happened to the Caboose"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXySG3i2Apw
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