SD9 as yard switcher?

[Anonymous]

In my N-scale Division Yard I am using an Atlas high-nose SD9 done-up in
Escanaba & Lake Superior/ex-Reserve Mining livery (I took a trip to Crivitz, Wis.
about 9 years ago to photo the E&LS, and surprisingly enough I was able to
find an undec. Atlas unit at a hobby shop in Oshkosh, mixed-up a perfect match
for the colors and found near-perfect numeral and lettering decals and it turned-
out fantastic - again, surprisingly enough). I didn't add any additional structural
details as I wanted to quit while I was ahead.

I've found that unit crawls extremely well and has lots of pulling power so I like
using it in my yard to switch long cuts of cars for several years now.

I'm wondering just how plausible it would be for a REAL railroad set in say
the late 1980's-early 1990's to employ that type of locomotive in yard duty?

[jchnhtfd]

If they had one on hand, and it ran pretty well... why not? Just because it's an SD rather GP wouldn't make that much difference, and yard switchers were -- and are! -- often selected on the basis of what's handy. I don't know if anyone ever did, but I'll bet you could find a prototype somewhere!

[Anonymous]

Now Jamie is a person with a good attitude!

[mudchicken]

BN/BNSF uses them in droves (all have been reballasted)....

At low speed they have excess horsepower to generate electricity to the traction motors. Pull like a sonafa b______ch.

MC

[vsmith]

I posted a few months ago a sighting of a brand new brightly painted BNSF Dash 9 shoving lowly beer cars at the local brewery siding here in L.A. so yes, its not only plausable but common...

[Anonymous]

I've visited relatives in Galesburg IL over the past 29 years, and have always taken the opportunity to visit BN(SF) facilities south of town. My vantage point is the Thirlwell Road overpass. For a number of years, BN employed at least two green high-nosed SD-9's for switching the north end of the hump, assembling trains. But the SD's disappeared several years ago.

John Baie

[michaelstevens]

I know that when I lived St.Paul, back in the late 80's, BN had at least 2 pairs of SD 9s (didn't they used to call them "cadillacs") in the Northtown yard.
From what MC says, they are probably still in use.

[Anonymous]

You all have good attitudes...

[AntonioFP45]

Burlington Northern and Southern Pacific used SD9s in yard switching duty. SD9s could "yank" blocks of cars easily because of the extra traction motors. Good, tough, little or no frills units. Trains had a very good article on the SD9 back in the 80s that I remember reading about. E-mail Trains and ask if they have the article archived and willing to send you a copy.

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

BN/BNSF uses them in droves (all have been reballasted)....

At low speed they have excess horsepower to generate electricity to the traction motors. Pull like a sonafa b______ch.

MC

Lady with an attitude here: SD and GP - I know GP stands for General Purpose. I vaguely know about an SD - but, sigh, marbles in head not doing well. Difference? SD is GM - what was GP. Is one older than the other - help me here Chicken - I have a paw in your mud and I'm stuck.

Mook

[dharmon]

Mook,

GPs and SDs are both EMDs (GMs)

GP is General Purpose and I believe that SD is Special or Specific Duty if I remember correctly

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

Mook,

GPs and SDs are both EMDs (GMs)

GP is General Purpose and I believe that SD is Special or Specific Duty if I remember correctly

Dan - I think it is Special ?, but the fog is starting to lift a little. I see both here in the yards and keep wondering what the difference was and the history on them.

Moo

[AntonioFP45]

Hi Mookie,

Relax it's easy!

These are General Motors-EMD Locomotives.
GP stands for General Purpose. All "GPs" or Geeps are 4 axle units.
SD stands for "Special Duty". All SDs are 6 axle units.

The differences are mainly the length of the locomotive and the number of axles.
An SD having 6 axles is of course going to be longer.

GPs because they're smaller usually can accelerate more quickly and consume less fuel. That's why Geeps are great for passenger runs and short local freight runs. But because of their "go anywhere-do anything" ability they can be found hauling hotshot freights along with their big 6 axle brothers. Geeps are also favored on rail districts that have a lot of curves.

As far as power for example:
A GP9 and SD9 were rated at 1,750 horsepower as the diesel engines under the hood were identical. The SD had better traction or "low speed pulling power" because of the extra traction motor in the middle axle.

The famous SD40-2 is simply the GP40-2s big brother with basically the same power plant. Each road orders or tailors locomotives for their needs.

In the 60s, GM-EMD produced the SDP40 and SDP45. The "P" stood for "Passenger". These were SD40s and SD45s equipped with steam boilers so that they could run passenger trains and provide heating and air conditioning.

Here's another ringer for you. GM made attractive "COWL" units in the 1960s. (yes, they're my favorites!) These were simply Streamlined carbodies on the SD series locomotives for railroads that wanted "modern-looking" passenger power. GM slapped carbodies on the 3,600 horsepowered SD45 and SDP 45. What did you get? The F45 and FP-45. There were some other variations of these models. In the 70s EMD produced the famous F40ph locomotive for passenger service. This was a 4 axle unit produced for commuter service. It was just a "modified" GP40-2 with a carbody on it! The "F" designation stands for FULL WIDTH CARBODY. Just check out the Diesel Spotter's Guide at your local hobby shop. Also read up on General Electric, Alco, Baldwin and other locomotive manufacturers. After reading the info a few times you'll see how uncomplicated it really is. Hope this helps! Happy Railroading!

[dharmon]

I will be the first to admit that I am no expert. But I believe that after the F units came the GPs becasue the F units did not lend themselves to raod switching duty because of visibility. The BL2 came out but weren't real successful. The GPs were next in the form of GP7/9s. The SDs came about to add two more traction motors and also becasue the six axle tracks spread the weight of the loco out more on lighter rail. I think. There are more qualified than me to answer this though[:)]

[dharmon]

See...mo better quailified[:)]

[AntonioFP45]

Very good Dharmon!

You're right on the money!

I left out the earlier diesel history and even some on what I covered as Mookie was focused on the GP, SD designations. But, Great job, Good info guy! You know, this for me is the fun part of the hobby, helping a fellow railfan or modeler. Mookie, I hope that our info is helpful. Ask questiions, do your research! God Bless!

[Anonymous]

For what it's worth, the Monon book I have states the BL2s didn't work and play
well with other road units on a fairly frequent basis. But, the GORGEOUS photo of
the Wisconsin & Calumet's ("Janesville & Southeastern" lettering) BL2 I took some
years ago looks great in a frame.

[Mookie]

Mookie must admit to being very lazy - it is easier to ask here than to go home and take the time to look through her nice picture books. Besides, when the Mookie reads, she sleeps - never happens here, however.

I will print out the info and take it home and put it will all the other printouts I have and will read them all while home for the holidays!

Thanx guys - you're the best

Mookie

[Anonymous]

I've used SD7/9's in flat switching; hump switching; shoving long cuts of coal up onto the pier. In short, an SD could do about anything a GP could do, as long as curvature and railweight were compatible. Oh, and the sound! Nothing EMD ever built sounded ANYTHING like it! I loved 'em...

[coalminer3]

I have seen "early" SDs (different models) being used as switchers at Russell, KY; Cumberland, MD and Elmore, WV: I'll go along with Skeets's post above - incredible sound.

work safe

[DSchmitt]

I could be mistaken, but I believe a U30C was used for switching by a company located in the Port of Stockton about 20 years ago. I may have a picture of it.

[corwinda]

Southern Pacific regularly used SD 9s (and some SD 7s) in yard and local service up to the merger with UP.

[Anonymous]

ghighland-

Since you mentioned Oshkosh, do you remember Wisconsin Central using the 2 SD-24's they got from the FRV as switchers in the Fond du Lac yard? Quite a site. They also used SD-45's in the yard, especially to make up the Chicago trains.[8D]

[kenneo]

SD9s, since the SP first received them, were used as yard goats and local engines. They can pull the guts out of a standing cut without taking slack.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

SD7's/SD9's as yard switchers and hump pushers is really no big deal. BN regularly used them at Clyde when it was still a hump yard and were also found as transfer power in the Chicago area. A fair number of SD38's and SD38-2's were used in the same service for the reasons cited in the other postings.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

Mook,

GPs and SDs are both EMDs (GMs)

GP is General Purpose and I believe that SD is Special or Specific Duty if I remember correctly

Dan - I think it is Special ?, but the fog is starting to lift a little. I see both here in the yards and keep wondering what the difference was and the history on them.

Moo

Yes, the original designation was Special Duty, but today the roles are reversed - the SD's have become general purpose locomotives while the few new GP's that are produced nowadays by the manufacturer in Boise, Idaho (they keep changing their name so I can't remember which one is the current one, ask Ed) in cooperation with GM, actually have "special" duties (ask Ed!). I think the last "real" GP's built were GP60's, and that was years ago.

I was wondering why they named the first GP model the GP7, and then I realized that GP7s were built at the same time as the F7s (with the same prime mover?), and I can see no other reason for that designation. Does anyone have any info on that detail? I think the same goes for GP9/F9? Can this logic be applied to (at least some models of) E units? Later they got even more mysterious with their designations - maybe only the GP18 and GP20 stood for 1800 and 2000 horsepower prime movers, while the GP30's name was a "sales gimmick" - I remember that from a book I read - it was advertised as a new model with 30 improvements over the previous one, which was I think the GP20.

Hope the marbles (my marbles) remember it right?
Best regards,
Oliver.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

GP/SD18, GP20 & SD24 were horsepower-based designations. The GP30 was originally planned to be GP22 (2250 HP). Beyond that, I'm not sure of the logic behind the other numbers used.

[dehusman]

GP's don't accelerate quicker because they are smaller, they accelerate quicker because they have more horsepower per axle. A GP40 has 3000 hp and 4 axles, 750 hp/axle while a SD40 has 3000 hp and 6 axles, 500 hp/axle. More hp/axle means faster acceleration.

Dave H.

[CShaveRR]

The SDs you would have seen at Russell would have been C&O's old SD18s (very unusual animals...they had Alco trucks!). On the CNW, we had a couple of SD9s on the hump for a while, before we bought the SD38-2s for that purpose. They might have seen how well the SD9s worked.

(Hmmm...maybe the subject for anoher post: these SD38-2s are nearly 29 years old now, and still functioning somewhat as expected. When we got 'em in 1975, the junk they replaced--TR2s, GP7s, and, yes, those SD9s--was no older than 25.)

[Anonymous]

rebelfdl -

Yes I do remember the ex-FRV SD24s and the SD45s quite well. I lived on the
south side of town but I often got up near the yard while taking the "scenic route"
up to Oshkosh on Hwy. 45. I often speculated that maybe the WC wasn't
doing all that well because so many of their "big units" (later after I got back
into railroading in earnest I learned they were SD45s) were still in the old
BN paint scheme. Later I learned that it was just because those locomotives
were being used so often they hadn't much time to repaint them quickly. I took
a photo once of a long lashup of both CNW and FRV power (I mean actual
CNW power, not ex-CNW under FRV ownership) in the former C&NW yard
there adjacent the WC yard. They were performing an air test prior to
departing southbound. The crew said they were CNW but I didn't get the
reason the train was running - looked like a big power transfer. The lead
unit was a CNW 6-axle hood unit, there was one or more other CNW engines,
and the rest were FRV including one in the FRV livery (not just CNW paint-out).