Dan
There is a old Post war railroad sign that showed two colors, red for blood and danger and black for death admonishing people not to try and beat the train.
The short skid marks immediately before the impact indicates to me that the driver probably knew he was done and whatever happens is going to either kill or hurt.
As far as Im concerned these kids paid the price for thier foolishness. They wont be the last to pay it. Society today is not family centric and has eroded quite a bit since the 50's we will continue to see our young folk lose thier life or futures with these kinds of wild and foolish behavior.
My resolve is only hardened by my own experiences and frankly I should not be allowed to have had the life I did. Im just sad for the parents who must live with the loss every day wondering what could have been done to save thier children's lives. I dont think that the children were destined to follow the laws and stay home and obey the rules anyway so the blame must rest with them regardless of thier age.
What I do hope is that the remaining survivors walk out of the hospital, heal at home and work to help others thier age to prevent any more accidents of this nature.
That train should have been split at the crossing, but I leave that up to the court to decide. That is why we have Judges and Jury.
Those Jeep Cherokees are plastic and break easy. Not exactly a choice for a joyride. But they took what was availible regardlesss of what the laws, permissions or licensing.
chad thomas wrote: zugmann wrote: Depends.... Is there a sign (probably 2) warning oncoming motorists that a car might be in the road? Cause railroads usually have those... If you stumble upon a stop sign at 80mph, can't stop, and hit a car at the intesection - would you consider that passing car at fault? Reflectors aren't going to help if you're outdriving your headlights. I agree with you and Dan. Some people take the responsibility of operateing a 80MPH 1-2 ton bullet far too lightly.
zugmann wrote: Depends.... Is there a sign (probably 2) warning oncoming motorists that a car might be in the road? Cause railroads usually have those... If you stumble upon a stop sign at 80mph, can't stop, and hit a car at the intesection - would you consider that passing car at fault? Reflectors aren't going to help if you're outdriving your headlights.
Depends....
Is there a sign (probably 2) warning oncoming motorists that a car might be in the road? Cause railroads usually have those... If you stumble upon a stop sign at 80mph, can't stop, and hit a car at the intesection - would you consider that passing car at fault?
Reflectors aren't going to help if you're outdriving your headlights.
I agree with you and Dan. Some people take the responsibility of operateing a 80MPH 1-2 ton bullet far too lightly.
The version of the article I saw does not state anyone was going 80 mph. It doesn't state that there were warning signs down the road.
There may have been all the reasons in the world why these kids were "at fault"?
Problem is, you don't know enough about it yet.
Is there some reason, everytime someone gets killed in these things, to just make stuff up to try and justify something as tragic as death?
I think it's sick, frankly. Like a bunch of vultures, all smug and ready to determine guilt -- not factually, but on moral grounds, as though some people deserve to get killed, and others don't. Well, if this was an ambulance, would this discussion be different?
Wait till the facts are in. Then you can have all the reason in the world for your learned judgments.
Fortunately, liability for accidents is not determined, and should not be determined, by looking for moral flaws in someone's parents.
Bucyrus wrote: Did the freight car they hit have reflectors on the side? The FRA says that railcars are too hard to see at night, and thus need to have side reflectors to make them easier to see, so people do not run into them at grade crossings. Would this admission by the FRA have an effect on this case if the car they hit did not have reflectors? Does a freight car without reflectors become more of a crash hazard once the public becomes accustomed to being warned by cars with reflectors?
Did the freight car they hit have reflectors on the side? The FRA says that railcars are too hard to see at night, and thus need to have side reflectors to make them easier to see, so people do not run into them at grade crossings. Would this admission by the FRA have an effect on this case if the car they hit did not have reflectors?
Does a freight car without reflectors become more of a crash hazard once the public becomes accustomed to being warned by cars with reflectors?
I guess we need to put warning stickers on EVERYTHING then. Obsurd. Similarly...
So we all (most) drive every day on streets that have curves right. Then one day someone decides a particular curve is extraordarily dangerous and puts it to the proper authoritys (hwy dept for example) and it's voted and or approved. But before the warning sign is actually installed, someone runs of the road and gets killed. Then who's fault is it? And should we put warning signs on every curve?
I say NO !!!!!
Come on people life is dangerous, take some personal responsability. (not directed at this forum but sue happy folks in general.)
Ok park the car there. Then put a sign up a ways down the road saying that there may be cars parked on the road ahead. If I fail to respond properly (high beams, slow down, etc) then I screwed up if I hit it.
There was an incident similar to this one around here 10/12ish years ago where a car was flying down a road around 3 AM being piloted by teens joyriding in mom's car. They had his mothers car for a date with her permission. They were speeding (20-30 mph over) and driving with lights off when they hit a stationary flat car that was part of a train being switched into an industry. There were lighted crossbucks, and 2 signs saying RR Crossing ahead. My best friend and his girlfriend were both killed because of the driver's (his) behavior.
The fault for the driving behavior rests on the driver. The fault for failing to educate the importance of following the law for the driver, to me anyway, rests on the parents.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Park your car across a road somewhere in the middle of the night with the lights off.
I'll bet somebody hits it.
It's their fault, right?
They may even be stupid, morally defective and have bad parents. Is that your excuse for putting your car there?
My 12 year old and I discussed this last night and we chatted about the importance of making good choices in life.
Ed, I agree with you regarding the discovery of the kids being gone. He really has to ask himself some tough questions. Ultimately, the decisions were made by the kids...and that is really unfortunate, at that age they really dont have the ability to reason.
It will be interesting to see how the legal system approaches this, particularly the law enforcement (against the driver) and then the parents (against the railroad?)
ed
Just wait till a lawyer gets hold of this. Several are probably already foaming over this.
It should be nobody's fault (primarily) but the parents. Teaching wrong from right and having a respect for the law would have prevented this.
Update from the morning local news...the father of the 13 year old knew both his daughter and her cousin were gone, he had checked that night about 10 pm...he was on the morning news explaining how they had sat down that evening and discussed the "house rules for the summer"...
I have sympathy for him, as I have a 14 year old daughter, but if I checked at 10, and she was not in bed or watching TV in the living room with my wife, every cop on this side of town would be getting a phone call.
Makes one wonder if not finding his kid in the house at 10 pm was normal for them.
An entire car load of kids, none old enough to legally drive, out at 4:30 in the morning running around in a stolen Jeep...and one of their parents knew they were gone.
But somehow this is the railroads fault, or the Baytown police departments fault, or the people who lets them steal the Jeep...everyone's fault but the parents.
Sad, very sad...15 years is just getting started.
23 17 46 11
edblysard wrote:Jeep was stolen last night, kids, one as young as 13, out joy riding at 4:30 in the morning, and the parents want to place blame for all of this anywhere but in their own laps...what parent lets their 13 year daughter stay out to 4:30 the morning, without calling the cops when they realized the kid was gone, unless they are used to this behaviour?
Mudchicken,
About as fast as you can spell lawyer?
They were traveling so fast they went completly under the tank car they hit, out the other side, and into a ditch.
Front seat passengers survived the impact, because they ducked...rear seat passengers, 4 of them, did not survive.
The skid marks from where he tried to stop...start about ten feet from the point of impact.
Jeep was stolen last night, kids, one as young as 13, out joy riding at 4:30 in the morning, and the parents want to place blame for all of this anywhere but in their own laps...what parent lets their 13 year daughter stay out to 4:30 the morning, without calling the cops when they realized the kid was gone, unless they are used to this behaviour?
I read the story here http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4889008.html?plckCurrentPage=31 and have been following it on Railspot. The whole thing just sounds sick. All the ingredients for disaster just lined right up for these kids and now four are dead, one is in critical condition and one in stable condition. Guess what, the one in stable condition gets to remember this for the rest of their life and perhaps can shed some more light on what happened.
spbed wrote:Kindly note that they hit a stopped train in this case CNW 6000 wrote: http://www.baynews9.com/content/36/2007/6/13/260273.html?title=Teen+dies+when+car+hit+by+train Direct link to story. Sad, sad, sad. Stop, look, and listen could save many lives.
CNW 6000 wrote: http://www.baynews9.com/content/36/2007/6/13/260273.html?title=Teen+dies+when+car+hit+by+train Direct link to story. Sad, sad, sad. Stop, look, and listen could save many lives.
Direct link to story. Sad, sad, sad. Stop, look, and listen could save many lives.
If they'd have stopped or looked...they wouldn't have hit the train that was stopped. Of if they wouldn't have stolen the car and been joyriding in it they wouldn't have hit the stopped train.
(1) 15 Year old driver?
(2) stolen car
(3) accross town from where UniHead works
(4) Care to place any bets that UP/Watco/EconoRail/BNSF still gets sued?
OK
CNW 6000 wrote:Yes there were. To me the story you found was a touch hard to follow because of the website it was on. I found it also on Yahoo! news. It's probably just me!
Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub
Kindly note that they hit a stopped train in this case
http://www.baynews9.com/content/36/2007/6/13/260273.html?title=Teen+dies+when+car+hit+by+train
I gave you the link to the story. Were not 4 teens killed?
blhanel wrote:OK, now I'm sad AND confused. The story doesn't match spbed's thread title.
I followed the link in his post and got this one. On Yahoo! News there's a posting on the AP and it seemed to match this one. That blurb is the accident in question. Here's a link to the whole story.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070614/ap_on_re_us/teens_train_crash;_ylt=AjYF5QS40NZC3AI9mmUPIVvMWM0F
Brian (IA) http://blhanel.rrpicturearchives.net.
http://www.railroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18708
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