BNSF operates 10,000 foot intermodal

[TheS.P.caboose]

On May 12, 2007 BNSF began running a 10,000 foot intermodal train between Los Angeles and Chicago.  The link: http://www.altamontpress.com/discussion/read.php?1,4916,4916#msg-4916 was posted early this morning talking about it.  Has anybody seen any of these monster intermodels in person?

[Anonymous]

Somehow I don't see that train taking any sidings.  I bet the dispatchers and yard masters are reaching for the aspirin bottle about now, too.

 

[TheS.P.caboose]

For sure, Erik. 

[traisessive1]

CN has done major siding expansions and regularily runs trains up to 12400 ft (most are 9-10 thou). Some without dynamics ... the engineers have fun with those beasts.  But if you want to see 10,000 foot trains ... come watch CN out west anyday. And it's not just intermodals ... CN runs anything at 10000 ft.

[edbenton]

Caught one a couple days ago in Streator IL man you forget how long that they can get.  Looks like will be powered by 4-5 Gevo's or Dash-9-8 for power and you pray like hell you do not have to hit the siding or break a airline, knuckle or pull a drawbar on that sucker otherwise your coundutor is going to KILL you if it is at the back of that sucker.

[diningcar]

With the TRANSCON almost all double tracked and high speed X-overs every 7-10 miles there will be no sidings necessary for the 10,000 foot train. Perhaps a Manifest will take a siding but probably the Operating people, with their dispatchers, have already rehearsed this and the only glitches will be weather other unforeseen events.

[zardoz]

CN has done major siding expansions and regularily runs trains up to 12400 ft (most are 9-10 thou). Some without dynamics ... the engineers have fun with those beasts.  But if you want to see 10,000 foot trains ... come watch CN out west anyday. And it's not just intermodals ... CN runs anything at 10000 ft.

Many many moons ago, during a Native American dispute in Canada, the CN detoured trains throught Chicago on the CNW.  I got stuck running one of those 12,000' (10,000 ton) IM monsters (complete with 4 SD40-2W WITHOUT dynamic brakes.  What a pain to run!! 

It was my first experience with anything Canadian-railroadish, as I was shocked that a railroad that runs in Canada would have ever even considered having units without dynamics! The CNW, yes, but not a Canadian railroad.

[CShaveRR]

UP also has experimented with long intermodal trains during the past year.  The eastbound train (don't recall its route) was in excess of 13,000 feet until it reached Global 3.  I don't think the westbound train was quite that long, but it was still over two miles.  These were basically two trains being run by one crew. It couldn't have been enjoyable for anyone involved (except for some trackside bean-counters, perhaps).

I remember some of those Canadian trains, Jim.  I didn't have to deal with 'em, so I loved 'em--lots of exotic equipment I'd never seen before.

[Modelcar]

.....What would be the length of slack between run in and fully out on a 10,000 ft. intermodal train....?

Do they split up the power with some back in the consist....?

[diningcar]

Slack is not easy to figure because of the articulated five and ten packers which may be in the consist.

 Yes, the power is split.

[beaulieu]

 

Many many moons ago, during a Native American dispute in Canada, the CN detoured trains throught Chicago on the CNW.  I got stuck running one of those 12,000' (10,000 ton) IM monsters (complete with 4 SD40-2W WITHOUT dynamic brakes.  What a pain to run!! 

It was my first experience with anything Canadian-railroadish, as I was shocked that a railroad that runs in Canada would have ever even considered having units without dynamics! The CNW, yes, but not a Canadian railroad.

 

Take a guess where CN's toughest mainline grade between Vancouver and the Atlantic is.

 

 

Nova Scotia. 

[Doublestack]

I'll venture a guess that its Byron Hill south of Fond du Lac.

[SactoGuy188]

 

Take a guess where CN's toughest mainline grade between Vancouver and the Atlantic is.

 

 

Nova Scotia. 

Which does explain why CN still buys mostly DC traction motor diesel locomotives even on new orders. The CP route through the Rockies have long, steep grades, hence the reason why CP were among the early adopters of the AC4400CW locomotive.

[anb740]

NS routinely runs 10,000' (and greater) trains around here.....and not just of the intermodal variety.  I caught a "local" the other day going by my office with six engines and 184 cars of slop freight.  I've seen the intermodals pushing 11-12,000' at times when business is good....it's cheaper than splitting the train into two sections requiring two different crews to run them.  It's also a gurantee that the crew won't have to worry about ducking into a siding anywhere either!

anb740

[SFbrkmn]

From what I heard about it, this monster test train had trouble the entire route as the radio signals from the dp units on the rear kept dropping out (the distance of the train no doubt played a part of this problem). Lots of so called trouble shooting and getting the bugs worked out before this type of operation is to be used more.

[zardoz]

I'll venture a guess that its Byron Hill south of Fond du Lac.

Doubtful.  A steep hill to be sure, but it is short and simple.  No hogbacks, no plateaus, just simple up or down. 

On the former CNW line, we called it "Eden hill" as our tracks went through Eden, not Byron.  Same difference.  However, we didn't have the luxury of dynamics.  We just dragged our trains down the hill and into town. 

The worst part was when the distant signal for Tower NW was approach; then we had to be ready to stop for the tower, but if the tower signal was less restrictive than 'stop', we would have to kick off the air and hope we had enough air left to stop at the front of the Fond du Lac yard.

[zardoz]

From what I heard about it, this monster test train had trouble the entire route as the radio signals from the dp units on the rear kept dropping out (the distance of the train no doubt played a part of this problem). Lots of so called trouble shooting and getting the bugs worked out before this type of operation is to be used more.

done with my best Spanish accent: DP units?!  We don't need no stinking DP units!

I suppose DP units would have made running that monster a bit easier.  But the detour trains we got we all 'head-end only' powered.

We made it all the way from Butler to Proviso without incident.  But no sooner had the outbound crew started moving the train in Proviso, BANG went the air. The train stretched all the way from the east end of Proviso (near the IHB) to Grand Avenue to the north.  It was, to say the least, a challenge to get that train over the road.

[rrnut282]

Just ask Ed (MP173),  the worst grade on CN is Valpo Hill in NW Indiana.

[BaltACD]

NS routinely runs 10,000' (and greater) trains around here.....and not just of the intermodal variety.  I caught a "local" the other day going by my office with six engines and 184 cars of slop freight.  I've seen the intermodals pushing 11-12,000' at times when business is good....it's cheaper than splitting the train into two sections requiring two different crews to run them.  It's also a gurantee that the crew won't have to worry about ducking into a siding anywhere either!

anb740

While 9000 foot and longer trains may cut down on the number of crews, they also guarantee that any mechanical stop (Defect Detector Activation, Undesired Emergency Brake Application, Flagging by a passing train or trackside worker for smoke or sparks coming from the train) will be a virtual 2 hour or more derailment while the conductor walks the length of the train to the rear and back to the head end, inspecting the cars while walking on main track ballast (relatively difficult to walk on because of 'large' rock size), most normally in the dark with a brakeman's lantern as the only form of illumination.  Big trains have their advantages, they also have their drawbacks.

[Doc Murdock]

Maybe this is dumb question of the day but I wondered if there is any restrictions to maximum length a train can be? I would think the longer the train, the harder it is to handle.

[BaltACD]

Maybe this is dumb question of the day but I wondered if there is any restrictions to maximum length a train can be? I would think the longer the train, the harder it is to handle.

As a practical matter, train length is limited by how effectively the brake system trainline is maintined and being able to maintain satisfactory air pressure on the rear of the train.  As the ambient temperature decreases, trainline leakage increases and in severe winter weathrer there are tables that limit train length in accordance with the anticipated temperatures.  Each railroad sets it's own limits based upon their own experiences.  Limits may vary from sub division to sub division based on the physical characteristics of each sub division.