Why so few SD.80 MACS?

[broncoman]

Mark,
Thanks for the information. In your time working for the railroads what in your opinion were operational dogs and what did you find that worked or where in the exceptional category . If you can't answer I completely understand.
Thanks again,
Dave

[jeaton]

Sounds almost as complicated as being an editor.

[kenneo]

[#ditto]

Yeh! What he said!

Just shows to go ya what experience in magazine making can do for you at the keyboard.

[Anonymous]

I don't know if turning wrenches is easier than being an editor, but it's certainly greasier than being an editor. Locomotive dirt never comes off. And you might as well count on a big gash, crunch, or gouge anytime you take a wrench in hand. I recall one really frustrating day in Idaho laying in puddles of ice-cold water on the floor of an F-unit with an electrician, fishing around in the dirt in the bottom of the electrical cabinet trying to isolate a ground in the Tow-Motor switch (the big air-operated switch that changes the traction motors from power to dynamic braking). I sat up to get a tool and creamed my head on one of the open electrical-cabinet doors above me -- 16 ga. sheet metal right on the corner. That made me decide to lay back down again for awhile because it hurt like hell.

That night in the motel I took a long shower and wondered why the hair on the right side of my head was stuck together -- grease? I got out and looked in the mirror and the whole side was matted in dried blood. I never realized it because I was wearing a wool cap. It was about that time that I seriously began thinking that this wasn't very much fun.

My favorite units:

For a short line, from a maintenance and operation point of view, I thought Santa Fe's CF7s couldn't be beat. After one look in their electrical cabinet, you thought you'd died and gone to heaven. But they still had BC engines, which weren't as desirable as C engines because you had more internal water leaks. The first ones to come off Santa Fe were very very good, but the tail-end Charlies were picked over. There aren't many CF7s still running now because they've finally worn out, and you're cheaper buying a good GP38 than putting a lot of effort into a CF7. Their frames were suspect at best, and some of them I saw had cracked and begun to sag.

For a powerful, reliable, rugged, work-all-day switcher, the SW1200. You almost never see these going cheaply. If they have MU on them, they are exceptionally desirable. These will probably still be running long after I'm dead. They're that good. I know a lot of people who respect the Alco switchers too, from HHs to S6s, but parts are a problem.

For pure running satisfaction, assuming you don't have to switch anything, the F unit. Comfortable, warm, sound fabulous, good view. My first really good train ride was on a three-unit set climbing over the Kenai Range between Anchorage and Seward on a fall morning, and moaning back down the 3% in dynamics that night. They sounded good with the cab window open, and because the fireman was back nursing the steam generators all night long, I got the left side to myself. F units are no fun to work on, the first time you have something heavy to change out, like a radiator core or a power assembly. You practically want to start all projects by pulling the roof hatch off, and for that you need a crane. You wonder why anyone bought a single one of them the moment they could buy a GP7 instead.

For maintenance misery, anything with an old, crispy electrical cabinet. You're afraid to touch anything lest some more insulation fall off. I did not like GP7s at all from an electrical point of view; the cabinet is difficult to access. GP9s were laid out better. If you had a real shop with high-level platforms, power-assembly changeout was duck soup. Doing it on a spur outside is almost as bad as trying to do it inside an F unit.

For train-riding (if you can't have an F unit), any SD40, 45, or Dash-2 version is a fine, fine choice, assuming it's not a hot, humid day. They've got a great view, excellent riding qualities even on poor track, and good ventilation. They'll just swim through a rough spot that you think you're about to overturn on in a AC4400CW. The 45s have a much deeper, louder sound than the 40s and are more fun to listen to. The non Dash 2s are all-relay: listening to the relay cascades when the unit sets-up in power or dynamic, or makes transition, is one of those distinctive sounds of railroading that you remember forever.

For a nasty hot Louisiana summer day: anything with an air conditioner. Period. Accept no substitute. Otherwise, around 6 a.m., all the flies that live in the toilet room wake up to keep you company, and the stench is awful. Crews on KCS, when I worked there, went through contortions to make sure that if they had one of our 2000s available (AC4400CWs), to get it on the lead, and I even saw a crew choose to run one of them long-hood-forward for over a hundred miles rather than put the trailing GP40 in the lead.

There's not much difference between a SD70MAC and an AC4400CW from the left-hand side of the cab, except the EMD vibrates a lot less and the third seat has a little more leg room. Engineers tell me they like the AC4400CWs dynamics better, but the SD70MAC loads faster. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

For a poor ride: GP40s, GP50s, and DASH 8-40Bs. Bouncy and rough. I never rode an LMX B39-8, but I always heard they were the all-time worst riding locomotive ever, because of their huge nose overhang. The ride of a Genesis unit is not as good as an F unit, and it's like looking out of the viewblocks in a tank. In short, a lousy view.

[Anonymous]

I'll vouch for the ride quality of SD40-2s, Mark! I once had the pleasure to ride one through southwest Montana at 40mph on relatively old, jointed rail. Aside from the flanges bottoming out on a few joint bars (don't hit your head on the cab roof!), it rode quite well.

To take one more step on the SD70MAC - AC4400 debate, from my experience, mine run crews in Appalachia *vastly* prefer the flood loading capabilities of the GEs. They can really get down and crawl without much throttle tweaking, and fine speed adjustments are possible, which really comes in handy when the loader bogs down (which it will). Hopefully EMD addressed this in the SD70ACe.

Also, since I'm jumping in late (very interesting thread, by the way), I couldn't help but notice someone mentioned the POTB earlier. Now there's a railroad! Just to hear those old 567s beating a fast cadence up the Salmonberry Canyon was easily worth the hike and the drive down the logging roads. I never realized it takes Run 7 just to get a light SD9 up the hill, though! Wow. Now I understand why those Dash 7s didn't last long. When somebody told me they couldn't pull themselves up the grade, they literally must not have been kidding.

In October and November when the leaves fall down along the river, it isn't uncommon to triple the hill with a decent-sized train. I even heard one tale of it taking five trips -- that crew didn't make it to Banks! I'll bet the POTB's ongoing struggle to survive might make for an interesting story.

And speaking of locomotives that sound good, for a year I lived in an apartment on the east side of Cleveland that bordered the rapid transit, NKP and the Cleveland Shortline (CSX). NS had a slight EB grade out of their East 55th St. yard (I say "had" because the yard is now closed), and were never ones to overpower anything. You could always tell by the bark when there was a GP38 in the consist. I once saw them send a loaded coal train out behind four of 'em. You could hear those babies coming from a mile away!

Scott Lothes
Cleveland, OH

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by UPTRAIN

The SD80MACs were jsut not what the RRs wanted......the C&NW ordered like 20 or 40 but they merged with the UP before the order could be made and was canceled.

According to Bob Keller, in the January 2003 issue of Classic ToyTrains Magazine, page 98, he writes,

'In the world of real railroading the 5,000-horsepower SD80MAC was an interim design fielded by General Motors, sold while the company finished up work on a newer 6,000-horsepower prime mover.

The SD80MAC used AC traction motors and a V-20 prime mover. The locomotive has an adhesion rate of 35 percent, compared to 25 percent from and SD60 or 18 percent from an SD40-2. According to the Field Guide to Modern Diesel Locomotives, 30 SD80MACs were built, 28 for Conrail and two demonstrators for EMD. (Conrail later added the two demos to its fleet).'

I know that some of the stuff I quoted rehashed things already mentioned in the previous posts, but the fact remains that EMD never intended to field the SD80MAC as a widely-available locomotive. Having said that, I still think it's a very nice looking locomotive.

[kenneo]

Scott Lothes --

The POTB almost idin't continue with SD9's because of the tight curves. 3-Axel trucks have a tendency to straighten out curves like the POTB has.

But, the alternate choice being GP38's, had a MCS that was too high to lug the tonnage necessary, but a 2-Axel trucks do go around those curves better. We used a rule-of-thumb of 6 cars for a SD and 4 for a GP for dry rail. You can double the hill and make the trip, but not more than that. A triple kills you at Cochran on the third trip unless you have 90 minutes left and can make Timber. You really want to make Timber.