Being a railfan is not easy these days, even with trains all around me. As a resident in central Connecticut, there is Amtrak's Springfield Line directly to my east, Metro-North's Waterbury Branch and Housatonic Railroad to my west, The Northeast Corridor to my south and CSX's Boston Line to my North. All wonderful places to visit, not to mention tourist railroads such as the Essex Steam Train and the Naugatuck Railroad. Despite my close proximity to railroads, getting there is not easy. As gas prices climb above $3 a gallon, filling up my SUV is not easy. I drive to school everyday (the charter school I attend does not provide transportation) and there is barely enough gas in my tank left to spare for railfanning. Somehow though I always manage to make it out by saving money. So it made me think. Do other teenagers have the same problems as I do? Neither of my parents are into the hobby, so I don't have the advantage of a parent who goes to see the trains themselves. Plus, gas prices are not the only problem. Getting there is only half the fun! Once I get to a particular location, with exception to the tourist railroads, I have to deal with police and railroad officials...some of whom are far less than friendly. Some people, even some people who work for a railroad themselves, cannot understand what being a railfan is all about. What are the options for young railfans nowadays? I have a few ideas. 1) TAKE THE TRAIN. When I visit CSX on the Boston Line, I will often leave my truck and take an Amtrak train up to Springfield. This saves gas and I get a train ride on top of it. Of course this has some cons as well. Once I am in Springfield, the only option is to sit there without being able to drive over to Palmer or CSX's West Springfield Yard...but it is better than not going at all. 2) CARPOOL. Even though I don't have many close friends who are railfans, I do have one. Him and I often go half and half on gas and we can visit more places that way. This is similar to what my father does. When he and his friends go fishing they all chip in to go. I hope these ideas are helpful. I would like to know what other problems face railfans out there...young or old. Chances are I have experienced them myself.
With the gas prices being what they are and what they'll get to I've taken to railfanning on my pedal bike. I can strap my camera's collapsed tripod to the pack over my rear tire and I can fit the camera, extra batteries, extra memory cards, a couple of snacks, plus a scanner in the small pack on the back over my rear tire. I also take a pair of water bottles in the cages on the bike and have a portable GPS mounted to the handle bar if I really want to get adventurous. The bonuses? Better for the environment and I get some exercise going to and from the various places. That is one option for you to consider. The other nice thing about biking while railfanning is that you're quieter when going around town so you may be able to hear horns, bells, etc that you wouldn't over the sounds of your car so you might know to stay in one spot or move on to another.
What about taking a bus to areas near where you want to railfan? I've also done that too.
Dan
I read the original posting, went on, came back a 2nd and a 3rd time before I decided to reply.
Several thoughts without belaboring the point.
1: SUV - and you can't afford the gas.....hmmm!
2: If you are a teenager, you will eventually grow up to be an adult (hopefully) and if you have done well in school and gone on to higher education, then you should be able to get a decent job that will give you just a smidge more $ than you have right now.
3: You are not different than any of us. We are all feeling the pinch, but a great many of the forum posters have had difficulty in their lives (lack of money, can't afford a real vacation, can't afford a good car, etc, etc) and some still do - going into their later years in the same situation.
4: When you become an adult with a responsible job, you can then maybe live some place closer to the tracks and start really railfanning at that time.
5: You are lucky you can take AMTRAK - a normal schedule here is 5 am going east and 1 am going west. And last week, they were running 2 pm going east! Plus, even with a discount, I still can't afford to ride AMTRAK any distance - (not when you consider renting a car at your destination, etc.)
6: Don't hassle the authorities. They were there first and won't take kindly to having to babysit someone that thinks they should be able to do whatever, in the name of railfanning.
7: I would apply this to any young person. I couldn't wait to drive! Now I don't want to - it is all relative. Enjoy what you can of trains and save some options for a few years on down the road. Working toward a goal will make you a happier person overall.
Mook
PS - Dan has some great ideas. Maybe you can use some of those.
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
ChuckCobleigh wrote:Step One: Try to get your father hooked. Unless, of course, you don't want to alienate Mom.
The mother would likely thank you for getting him out of the house for a while and giving her some time by herself.
Maybe Mom would like it better than both of them!
Yeah, it's gotta be tough today.When I started in 1964 we went as far as we could until caught. This was on the Reading in the Reading area. Snapped #4 camelback inside CF&I's Birdsboro plant and the fireless Porter at Met-Ed's Reading power station. But then a friend's track supervisor Dad let us crawl all around the line of (mostly doomed) T-1's by the coaling tower on his pass and under his supervision. All kinds of chalk on them to denote what was to go to Luria Bros. and what was to keep the Rambles running. Tough, kids.
Myself, I wish I had been my Dad's little brother from the 20's onward. He's 91 now and great on the atmosphere of numerous train trips. I would have loved to pick up the details.
It's a terrible world now, when a boy can't cultivate a friendship with a railroad employee without all sorts things being suspected.
Sigh!!!!!
Rixflix aka Captain
rixflix aka Captain Video. Blessed be Jean Shepherd and all His works!!! Hooray for 1939, the all time movie year!!! I took that ride on the Reading but my Baby caught the Katy and left me a mule to ride.
Just had a second thought. Get organized. The railroads need people to run 'em and they need people now. Tell someone about your interests and what you want to do. Seems to me that someone, sound out the locals, ought to be able to give you a tour of the plant. a guest speaker at your high school, or a supervised photo shoot.
I was in 7th grade when the nun said, " we are going down to the visual aids room to see a film about nickel plating". Now I come from a familiy of hardware manufacturers and the whole city of Reading knew from nickel plating. Turns out the film was a public relations effort to promote the Nickel Plate's fast freight service from Buffalo to all points Midwest. You should have seen the berks and Hudsons fly.
Approach under caution, prepared to stop, but someone on the railroad can help.
Rix
P42 108 - I feel ya pup. Interesting analogy you made, trains and fishing. In a way, they are similar. It's the thrill of the sport sometimes, bringing in a "trophy". Now, stick to that mindset. Find out where the "hot fishin' hole" is. Seek out and introduce yourself to other railfans; even some not-so-young ones. Group of teens will attract authority's attention; throw some one with a little silver in the hair and things lighten up a bit, get it? Plus, there is safety in numbers.
As for the price of gas...everyone is in the same boat. Railfanning isn't an expensive hobby...doesn't require a license...at least not yet...
Welcome to the hobby. There's teen railfan thread down in the Trains.com General Discussion forum. Might help.
Make sure you have a camera hanging from your neck... something easily seen to BE a camera, just don't have it mounted on a gun stock! Pace along the property line, well back on the public side of things. Stop often to stand on tip-toe to sight with the camera at things "just out of easy sight", but DO NOT encroach upon or cross that property line. Take photos of the equipment, not the people (unless they smile and pose).
If an employee or someone of obvious authority approaches you, keep your hands visible and out to your sides, with your palms toward them. SMILE. Do NOT walk toward them unless they request (either asking or telling) that you do so, but STOP right at the property line. (This is why you need to stay well away from the property line... you can accommodate the order to 'come here' at least partially.) If they 'order' you come farther, say, "I can't enter railroad property."
SMILE. Say, "Hi" (or "Hello" or whatever "decent" venacular you use to greet a friend... don't be phony). If your camera is in your right hand, calmly transfer it to your left hand in front of you. SMILE. Extend your right hand, fingers loosely touching, thumb almost straight up, as if to shake hands, but with the palm turned slightly up (rather than verticle or down).
What they do at this point determines your next move.
If they ask you what you are doing, SMILE bigger and say what you are doing... "Taking pictures of trains!" That IS what you are doing, isn't it? I used to record the horn sounds with a microphone attached to my laptop computer... that really bewildered 'em!!!! :-)))
If they tell you to get lost, relax your shoulders, withdraw your hand and take a step backwards (just don't trip and fall down or step into the path of a car!) and give your best "that hurt my feelings" look. KNOW that you are on public property and have the right to be there. (If you ain't, then prepare to be yelled at and ordered to leave, at a minimum, and possibly arrested!) CALMLY say, "I'll take my photos from here and not bother you. Thank you." But, don't be beligerant.
Play it by ear from there on out.
Have copies (not originals) of some of YOUR photos with you in a small photo album. Have duplicates of equipment of the RR you are looking at and be willing to share them if someone expresses appreciation of them.
YOU, be friendly, non-threating, accommodating (to a limit), and proud of what you are doing.
Don't touch railroad property with your hands or feet. Stay on public property. Don't get any closer to the track than a crossing gate would allow a car to get (and preferably stay back at least a car's hood-length more... (I have seen metal bands [that were supposed to constrain stacks of lumber] flailing alongside a fast moving train that could slice a person in two before they knew what had happened). Don't lean on or otherwise touch the crossing gate/lights.
Be wary of being invited onto the RR property. If they tell you to come with them to the office to wait for the police, don't go with them. Wait right where you are. If the police come, they need to see where the "crime" was committed.
If they invite you to some photo spot on the property, you (and they) are at risk if you accept. But I have seen people accept and seemingly no one was the worse for it.
5- to 10-year-olds seem to get more invites into the cab of a locomotive than older ages. Take your younger brother and, as "The Responsible Adult", you might get to go too.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
On another 'safety' note:
A while back I had a run-in with a wanna-be cop who was concerned that I was taking pictures of the industry where a train was switching covered hoppers. Once I explained what I was doing and volunteered to show pics (as above) he relaxed and told me of a place that I didnt' know was public property where I could get even better pics. Lesson learned is this: if you're focus on equipment is on the engines/cars try not to get the industry/whatever is being serviced in the shots. Around this area there are some governmental installations that have rules on what pictures can be taken.
Yes, they're eagered, but they will gain more experience as time passes.... Got to start somewhere right???
Good thread. I happen to be looking at old pictures I took back in the 70's and I encountered some of the same issues, primarily economic. Back then the gas prices jumped from 29 cents to about 60 cents a gallon. thus i was "stuck" with the daily locals in my hometown. How I wish those were still running.
It seems like everytime I would come home from college for winter or spring break I would take one "trip" of about 50 miles to a hotspot. For me it was Effingham, Centralia, or Mt. Vernon, Il. My aunt lived in a railroad town of Mattoon, Il and visits to her were special for many reasons, including the trains.
Today, I have the resources to hop in the gas guzzling SUV and drive...but I really dont want to. It just doesnt make sense at $3.50 gallon. Even cross town. I ride the bike and get a bit of exercize. This morning i have taken two "breaks" from work and watched a couple of trains.
One piece of advise. Railroads change over time. Explore your local railroad (safely and on public property). What angles are best for morning and afternoon photography? For different direction trains? What architecture, either railroad or otherwise is interesting or historic? Incorporate it into your photos. What panoramic views are available? How do those view change over the course of four seasons? I have one spot that is great for early morning eastbound trains...complete with a fence and a grove of trees. That will look completely different in all four seasons. Guess what? With our urban sprawl, even here in Indiana, my guess is the trees will be gone in 10 years.
Good luck and be safe.
Study hard.
ed
I'd take issue with some of the last raised points. I carry around a copy of the 'Photographer's Rights' with me. I don't believe that cameras can be confiscated unless you're arrested. RR crew, unless they're RR PD, can't arrest you. If they invite you to come and wait for the police and you know you are on public property I'd say "I'll wait right here and I'm not trespassing" as nicely as I could.
I had two overzealous employees at a local industry try this crap with me. Come wait for the police to get here with us and it'll be better, etc... When the officer did show up he told me that had I gone with them, even with the invite to the property, he definately could have arrested me for trespassing since they weren't authorized to allow people on the property. I knew I was on a public sidewalk and I stood there and politely held my ground. I had a similar run in with a 'wanna-be' cop when I was in a public parking lot in my truck shooting another local.
you have your OWN SUV?
I didnt have my own car until after college, and I could afford to buy one.
somehow, I dont think you are that badly off! ;)
Scot
Well in case you never heard the adage here it is "if you can afford the Cadallic then for sure you can afford the gas". That is a saying from way back in my hi school days.
P42 108 wrote: Being a railfan is not easy these days, even with trains all around me. As a resident in central Connecticut, there is Amtrak's Springfield Line directly to my east, Metro-North's Waterbury Branch and Housatonic Railroad to my west, The Northeast Corridor to my south and CSX's Boston Line to my North. All wonderful places to visit, not to mention tourist railroads such as the Essex Steam Train and the Naugatuck Railroad. Despite my close proximity to railroads, getting there is not easy. As gas prices climb above $3 a gallon, filling up my SUV is not easy. I drive to school everyday (the charter school I attend does not provide transportation) and there is barely enough gas in my tank left to spare for railfanning. Somehow though I always manage to make it out by saving money. So it made me think. Do other teenagers have the same problems as I do? Neither of my parents are into the hobby, so I don't have the advantage of a parent who goes to see the trains themselves. Plus, gas prices are not the only problem. Getting there is only half the fun! Once I get to a particular location, with exception to the tourist railroads, I have to deal with police and railroad officials...some of whom are far less than friendly. Some people, even some people who work for a railroad themselves, cannot understand what being a railfan is all about. What are the options for young railfans nowadays? I have a few ideas. 1) TAKE THE TRAIN. When I visit CSX on the Boston Line, I will often leave my truck and take an Amtrak train up to Springfield. This saves gas and I get a train ride on top of it. Of course this has some cons as well. Once I am in Springfield, the only option is to sit there without being able to drive over to Palmer or CSX's West Springfield Yard...but it is better than not going at all. 2) CARPOOL. Even though I don't have many close friends who are railfans, I do have one. Him and I often go half and half on gas and we can visit more places that way. This is similar to what my father does. When he and his friends go fishing they all chip in to go. I hope these ideas are helpful. I would like to know what other problems face railfans out there...young or old. Chances are I have experienced them myself.
Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub
railroadjj:
I appreciate what you say. But, my point about the grade crossing arms was that of safety, not trespass. If you are in a field, no matter where the railroad tracks are, you are on somebody's property and are trespassing. Also, the 50-ft you mention could be too few in places where the RR has property that does not necessarily have tracks on it.
As for whether to obey an order for you to go with them, that is a sticky wicket. The RR employee is not a "Federal employee", but IS governed by Federal statutes and has some authority that is Federally mandated, but, if you KNOW you are on public property, then their order for you to go to someplace that is not on public property is iffy at best.
My comment was based on "you" (nuttin personal here, just the general reader hereof) being an inexperienced youth, with an emphasis on being inexperienced and youth. There are always circumstances where you might want to go to an office anyway, but if the office is unoccupied by anyone but the person telling you to do so, then caution is advised. Women drivers are told that if a car pulls up behind them with flashing red lights and they are in an area where there are no other people, they then should pull over, but NOT stop; rather, proceed at a slow speed to the nearest PUBLIC place where there are other people present, and then stop. Granted, there are police officers that will go ballistic with this "stunt", (I have seen videos of it!) but a few years ago there were several women that were attacked on lonely sections of road by a man posing as a policeman and this tack has been recommended and endorsed by National police organizations.
I am sure you are thinking of an office bustling with people and I am thinking of one with only one or two employees present at the time. It is a judgment call at the time and I did say to wait for the police as a sign of cooperation. Belligerence, ("Ya' can't make me do nuttin, ya' gol'daing'ed ihjut!") is not the way to respond. Rather, cooperation ("Yes, sir, I would be glad to wait here for a UNIFORMED Police Officer so I can explain my presence on this public property. Thank you.") will go a lot farther toward getting more photos.
I agree that you should wear clothing that is easily visible. Don't hide in camouflage fatigues behind a tree or bridge abutment and then jump out with a long lens camera aimed at the cab to shoot a photo. They might "shoot" back in a different sense of the word.
O. Winston Link took photos with the full knowledge of the crews so that his bazillion flashbulbs wouldn't knock the crew out of the cab. I remember reading of another photographer that put a large sign on an easel at one grade crossing and then took a position at the next grade crossing. The sign was was a drawing of an old style Hollywood movie camera (Mickey Mouse ear looking thingy) with the word "SMILE", and under that was the word "Next" with a drawing of a crossbuck. I understand this produced lots of good whistling!
The mention of flashbulbs above stirred a memory. My father took me to Salem, MA, one night (around 1952) to watch some yard action. After I had taken a few pics with flashbulbs a breathless RR worker ran up to me and said, "Oh, thank God." He had thought something on one of the cars was fouling the power lines overhead. I said, "Sorry." He said, "I hope the pictures come out. See you." He exchanged a few what I thought were pleasantries with my father and walked back to work.
I don't know how far he ran, but he was really out of breath. I always felt guilty about scaring him that much.
Wow why do you need a SUV (kind of ironic haveing a overpriced and costely POS and haveing a screen name with "P42" in it LOL) you could always sell your SUV and get a car with better MPG.
Who signs your paycheck? The Secretary of the Treasury of the United States, or the Treasurer of your Railroad? If it is the former, then you are a Federal Employee, if it is the latter then you are a Railroad Employee. A matter of semantics, maybe, but Railroad Employees are NOT "Federal Employees". An Employee is someone that is "employed" BY an organization and a RAILROAD employee is employed by the RAILROAD, not the Federal Government or any federal organization. Railroads are "Corporations" that are incorporated in a State. But because they perform "interstate commerce", they are governed by Federal Laws, but that does not make their employees to be "Federal Employees".
If a Police Officer asks a railroad employee for his/her "Driver's License", it is to establish "identification" using an accepted form of identification used by the State in which they are in. It is not to see if he can drive a car... it is to establish WHO the railroad employee is. The Police Officer's request should be phrased as: "Show me some photo identification, please?" If the employee has a Railroad issued PHOTO identification, then that "should" suffice. But the employee should follow the particular RR's directives as to what should or should not be produced per the Police Officer's request.
The reasons an Officer would ask for identification are varied, but are usually the result of the Officer performing the duty assigned by the community; be that community is: Town, City, County/Parrish, State, or YES, even the Federal community as a whole. All the ordinances and laws of those communities are the Police Officers duty in an order where the larger community takes precedence over the smaller one, no matter which community "employs" the Officer. The Officer has paper work to fill out to record what duty was performed and why. And that includes identifying the people involved.
But, back to the "second" thing this thread DEvolved into... (or is it the "third"?) What do you, the railfan, do when confronted by someone that tells you that you are to be detained for taking photos of railroad equipment? If you are on public property, stand your ground (within reason). If you are trespassing, you're toast!
Back to the original question... well..., you don't have to be a teenager to not have the funds to pursue your railfan hobby. Before I retired, I expected that when I did I would spend more time railfanning, but now that I have retired, the price of gasoline has put a major crimp in that "more time railfanning" facit of retirement. I try to arrange necessary car trips to include time to stop at my favourite spots for a little bit of railfanning.
Sempor,
Please show me what part of the Federal or your State's Constitution requires you to carry a photographic id, or a drivers license.
The US Supreme court was quite clear in its ruling towards the requirements of identification.
Nothing in the Federal Constitution requires any US citizen to carry any form of photographic id.
A drivers license is nothing more that a permit, issued by your state, that allows you to operate a motorized vehicle on that states public roads.
The fact that it has become a de-facto form of photographic ID is not law.
Now, certain types of and places of employment, such as government offices/ agencies and law enforcement jobs do require a person to carry a employee id, (a government/employer issued badge, ID card, uniform, things like that) but all "the law" requires of the everyday citizen to that, when questioned by a law enforcement officer, they must identify themselves in a truthful manner...in other words, all you have to do is tell the officer your correct name, and offer enough details, such as an address, that the officer can establish that you are who you say you are...the burden of proof is not on the citizen, but on the officer.
Now, if the officer can not easily establish your identification, based on what you provide, he or she may detain you until such time as they can establish that identification.
I do not, and will not carry my driver's license while on duty...in fact, I don't carry a wallet at all while on duty, my railroad id is on a beaded chain around my neck, and I do this on purpose.
If you are a railroad employee, and involved in a grade crossing accident, and the investigating police officer request you driver's license, if you comply, it is quite possible to have a "motor vehicle accident" notation added to your driving record, even though you were not operating a motor vehicle on public roads, and having such a notation in your driving record increases your automobile insurance, and if your state uses the point system, can result in points being removed from you license.
My current engineer has had that happen to him, and after 3 years, is still waging a battle through the court system to have the notation removed from his records.
I have been confronted by a HPD officer, who demanded I give him my driver's license as a form of ID, refused my railroad issued ID, and was attempting to arrest me, when our trainmaster arrived, along with our safety office, (who happens to be the company attorney too)...after a heated debate, that included the police officer's supervisor, I was released, because there simply is no requirement in our legal system for you, me or anyone else to carry a drivers license, except when engaged in operating a motorized vehicle on public roads.
(not having one when so engaged is nothng more than a class "C" misdomeanor)
Again, nothing in our "laws" requires you or any other citizen to produce any form of photographic ID...all it requires of you is that you must provide enough detailed information for a police or law enforcement officer to readily confirm you are who you say you are...nothing more is required.
What about the folks who don't have drivers licenses?
According to your statement, they are automatically "breaking the law"...
Oh, and no one signs my paycheck...it is a wire transfer direct deposit.
I work under a federally governed cotract, whichs rules and such are enforced by the FRA, under federal guidlines and we work in compliance with federal guidlines and regulations.
Our retirement system is managed by the federal governement.
Our engineers license are issued by the railroad you work for, under federal guidlines, and we have to meet requirements set and enforced by the federal government.
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edblysard wrote: Sempor,Please show me what part of the Federal or your State's Constitution requires you to carry a photographic id, or a drivers license.[end quote]I didn't say anything about any requirement to carry any ID. I said the Police Officer may ask to see identification so he can fill out his report. [continue quote user="edblysard"] The US Supreme court was quite clear in its ruling towards the requirements of identification.Nothing in the Federal Constitution requires any US citizen to carry any form of photographic id.A drivers license is nothing more that a permit, issued by your state, that allows you to operate a motorized vehicle on that states public roads.The fact that it has become a de-facto form of photographic ID is not law.Now, certain types of and places of employment, such as government offices/ agencies and law enforcement jobs do require a person to carry a employee id, (a government/employer issued badge, ID card, uniform, things like that) but all "the law" requires of the everyday citizen to that, when questioned by a law enforcement officer, they must identify themselves in a truthful manner...in other words, all you have to do is tell the officer your correct name, and offer enough details, such as an address, that the officer can establish that you are who you say you are...the burden of proof is not on the citizen, but on the officer.Now, if the officer can not easily establish your identification, based on what you provide, he or she may detain you until such time as they can establish that identification.I do not, and will not carry my driver's license while on duty...in fact, I don't carry a wallet at all while on duty, my railroad id is on a beaded chain around my neck, and I do this on purpose.[end quote] I agree with you and I don't think I said anything to the contrary. [continue quote user="edblysard"] If you are a railroad employee, and involved in a grade crossing accident, and the investigating police officer request you driver's license, if you comply, it is quite possible to have a "motor vehicle accident" notation added to your driving record, even though you were not operating a motor vehicle on public roads, and having such a notation in your driving record increases your automobile insurance, and if your state uses the point system, can result in points being removed from you license.My current engineer has had that happen to him, and after 3 years, is still waging a battle through the court system to have the notation removed from his records.I have been confronted by a HPD officer, who demanded I give him my driver's license as a form of ID, refused my railroad issued ID, and was attempting to arrest me, when our trainmaster arrived, along with our safety office, (who happens to be the company attorney too)...after a heated debate, that included the police officer's supervisor, I was released, because there simply is no requirement in our legal system for you, me or anyone else to carry a drivers license, except when engaged in operating a motorized vehicle on public roads.(not having one when so engaged is nothng more than a class "C" misdomeanor)[end quote]I have heard these stories before and it really boggles my mind that such can happen. The "demand" for your driver's license is silly (to me, anyway) as there are still many people in the U.S. that do not have one. Just because you can drive a train does not mean that you have ever been at the wheel of an automobile on a public highway or ever will be.States do issue ID cards to people that request them so they can have something to show when at the local wally-world and want to write a check. But not everybody has or wants to have one... and like you said, there is no legal requirement for a "citizen" to carry anything like it. Does an airplane pilot get a traffic citation if he survives a plane crash onto a public highway???? [continue quote user="edblysard"] Again, nothing in our "laws" requires you or any other citizen to produce any form of photographic ID...all it requires of you is that you must provide enough detailed information for a police or law enforcement officer to readily confirm you are who you say you are...nothing more is required.What about the folks who don't have drivers licenses?According to your statement, they are automatically "breaking the law"...[end quote]Please enlighten me. Where did I say anything about "automatically breaking the law". I certainly did not intend to imply any such thing. You should follow your company's directives in all matters. If that is breaking the law, then your company is in bigger trouble. Granted, you need to apply some common sense to the company directives and don't deliberately break the law if you know a directive contradicts the law... (e.g.: Nuremburg Trial defense doesn't work). (The only thing wrong about "common sense" is that it is not "common" and often makes no "sense".)City code is subordinate to State Law, and State Law is subordinate to Federal Statute (at least that is how "I" understand it) and you, the railroad employee are mainly under the Federal Statutes, so you do what the Federal Statutes require. The local Police "should" know that and act accordingly. Of course, "should" and "does" are two different things! [continue quote user="edblysard"] Oh, and no one signs my paycheck...it is a wire transfer direct deposit.[end quote]I just knew somebody would say that! I ain't sure if you are doing so "tongue in cheek" or are really just confused. My point is, you are PAID by your EMPLOYER and your EMPLOYER is the RAILROAD, not a FEDERAL organization. Thus you are a RAILROAD EMPLOYEE, not a FEDERAL EMPLOYEE. Governed by FEDERAL statute, but EMPLOYED BY the RAILROAD. You were HIRED (and can be fired) by the RAILROAD, not the FEDERAL government. You are an EMPLOYEE of an EMPLOYER and your EMPLOYER is the organization that pays you... whether that be by a paycheck, direct deposit or cash under the table... and even if that cash is in any size denomination paper bill that has the signatures of the Treasurer of the United States and the Secretary of the Treasury, it was given to you by your EMPLOYER, not the dad-gummit.I will soon be paid by the FEDERAL government, but I STILL won't be a FEDERAL EMPLOYEE, 'cuzz the payment will be from the Socialable Secretely folk and I will not be "EMPLOYED" by the gummit to accomplish anything. (That just absolutely tickles me! yeah, yeah, yeah, it was my money to begin with... don't go pokin' at my pretty bubble... allow me one fantasy.) [silly aside here]Several years ago, I had to go to the store over my lunch time and just happened to see my wife there also. I snuck up behind her and said, in an authoritive voice; "Pull it over lady, you got a license to shop." I thought I was being funny, she Semper Vaporo Pkgs. Reply Green Bay Paddlers Member sinceJuly 2002 From: Green Bay, WI 197 posts Posted by Green Bay Paddlers on Sunday, June 10, 2007 3:57 PM As a high school teacher, I completely understand where you are coming from. Teenagers aren't taken seriously by society. I read your post and took a much different approach than Mookie. I was thinking to myself, "what a pleasant young adult who typed an intelligent post and listed a great many real concerns." You didn't specify that the SUV was yours. In fact, I read to mean that this is your parents' vehicle and you are required to fuel it when you use it. My parents made me do the same thing, and that was back when gas was a buck a gallon! Hang in there my friend. It's tough at this age in your life. You're bound by parental restrictions, high school (a full-time job, in my opinion,) and your passion for railfanning. I agree with the second poster about the bicycle. However, I've also travelled extensively in the northeast and I know that isn't always safe or feasible. Many of those roads are windy and narrow, built for horses in the 1600's and 1700's. Cars speed down them and it can be dangerous for someone on a bicycle. By my handle, you may have discerned that I have a passion for canoes. I have found that to be a great way to railfan. If you can find a stretch of river (like the lower Wisconsin River) where there are a great deal of rail bridges, it is a great way to railfan. Drop an anchor, fish for awhile (or read a book), and then get your camera out. Good luck and safe railfanning! Paddler Reply zugmann Member sinceJanuary 2002 From: Canterlot 9,518 posts Posted by zugmann on Sunday, June 10, 2007 5:01 PM High School is a cakewalk... and it won't get any easier. If your only problem is you can't afford gas - consider yourself lucky! Take the time to stick to local RRs. Work on local photography, or stay at home and read up on your history until you can afford railfanning. The years will past fast enough, trust me. The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person. Reply Mookie Member sinceJune 2001 From: US 13,488 posts Posted by Mookie on Monday, June 11, 2007 6:17 AM Anyone else notice that the "teenaged railfan" has had no comment on his own posting? Maybe he isn't as passionate about his thoughts as some of the rest of us. Or maybe it is time to set new troll traps..... She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw Reply 123 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. 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[end quote]
I didn't say anything about any requirement to carry any ID. I said the Police Officer may ask to see identification so he can fill out his report.
[continue quote user="edblysard"]
I agree with you and I don't think I said anything to the contrary.
I have heard these stories before and it really boggles my mind that such can happen. The "demand" for your driver's license is silly (to me, anyway) as there are still many people in the U.S. that do not have one. Just because you can drive a train does not mean that you have ever been at the wheel of an automobile on a public highway or ever will be.
States do issue ID cards to people that request them so they can have something to show when at the local wally-world and want to write a check. But not everybody has or wants to have one... and like you said, there is no legal requirement for a "citizen" to carry anything like it. Does an airplane pilot get a traffic citation if he survives a plane crash onto a public highway????
Please enlighten me. Where did I say anything about "automatically breaking the law". I certainly did not intend to imply any such thing. You should follow your company's directives in all matters. If that is breaking the law, then your company is in bigger trouble. Granted, you need to apply some common sense to the company directives and don't deliberately break the law if you know a directive contradicts the law... (e.g.: Nuremburg Trial defense doesn't work). (The only thing wrong about "common sense" is that it is not "common" and often makes no "sense".)
City code is subordinate to State Law, and State Law is subordinate to Federal Statute (at least that is how "I" understand it) and you, the railroad employee are mainly under the Federal Statutes, so you do what the Federal Statutes require. The local Police "should" know that and act accordingly. Of course, "should" and "does" are two different things!
I just knew somebody would say that! I ain't sure if you are doing so "tongue in cheek" or are really just confused. My point is, you are PAID by your EMPLOYER and your EMPLOYER is the RAILROAD, not a FEDERAL organization. Thus you are a RAILROAD EMPLOYEE, not a FEDERAL EMPLOYEE. Governed by FEDERAL statute, but EMPLOYED BY the RAILROAD. You were HIRED (and can be fired) by the RAILROAD, not the FEDERAL government. You are an EMPLOYEE of an EMPLOYER and your EMPLOYER is the organization that pays you... whether that be by a paycheck, direct deposit or cash under the table... and even if that cash is in any size denomination paper bill that has the signatures of the Treasurer of the United States and the Secretary of the Treasury, it was given to you by your EMPLOYER, not the dad-gummit.
I will soon be paid by the FEDERAL government, but I STILL won't be a FEDERAL EMPLOYEE, 'cuzz the payment will be from the Socialable Secretely folk and I will not be "EMPLOYED" by the gummit to accomplish anything. (That just absolutely tickles me! yeah, yeah, yeah, it was my money to begin with... don't go pokin' at my pretty bubble... allow me one fantasy.)
[silly aside here]
Several years ago, I had to go to the store over my lunch time and just happened to see my wife there also. I snuck up behind her and said, in an authoritive voice; "Pull it over lady, you got a license to shop." I thought I was being funny, she
As a high school teacher, I completely understand where you are coming from. Teenagers aren't taken seriously by society. I read your post and took a much different approach than Mookie. I was thinking to myself, "what a pleasant young adult who typed an intelligent post and listed a great many real concerns." You didn't specify that the SUV was yours. In fact, I read to mean that this is your parents' vehicle and you are required to fuel it when you use it. My parents made me do the same thing, and that was back when gas was a buck a gallon!
Hang in there my friend. It's tough at this age in your life. You're bound by parental restrictions, high school (a full-time job, in my opinion,) and your passion for railfanning. I agree with the second poster about the bicycle. However, I've also travelled extensively in the northeast and I know that isn't always safe or feasible. Many of those roads are windy and narrow, built for horses in the 1600's and 1700's. Cars speed down them and it can be dangerous for someone on a bicycle.
By my handle, you may have discerned that I have a passion for canoes. I have found that to be a great way to railfan. If you can find a stretch of river (like the lower Wisconsin River) where there are a great deal of rail bridges, it is a great way to railfan. Drop an anchor, fish for awhile (or read a book), and then get your camera out.
Good luck and safe railfanning!
Paddler
High School is a cakewalk... and it won't get any easier. If your only problem is you can't afford gas - consider yourself lucky! Take the time to stick to local RRs. Work on local photography, or stay at home and read up on your history until you can afford railfanning. The years will past fast enough, trust me.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.