Fire damaging Sacramento tressle

[Modelcar]

...From some of the views in the news videos last evening it appeared to me the wooden "legs" of the trestle were standing on a footing of concrete....{not down in the ground}.

But I imagine if they use piling {perhaps steel}, they will be driven right down into the earth if that's possible there to find a good footing.

And then prestressed concrete top for forming the surface for the ballast, etc....

[Modelcar]

....Thanks Carl and Tom for update and info...

[twhite]

I'm sure that UP will get that section of the trestle repaired ASAP, as there is no alternate connection between their main yard (Roseville, to the east) with Sacramento, and the line sees over 50 trains per day into and out of Sacramento.  Probably for the time being, their transcontinental Northern California freight trains will be diverted to the old WP line from Sacramento through Oroville and up and down the Feather River Canyon (a single-track line that already is almost to capacity).  Except for AMTRAK, UP does not schedule that many freight trains over the original SP Donner Pass line (which is mostly double track, but with heavier grades over the Sierra), perhaps 10-15 a day.  However, the Feather River route can see as many as 20-25 trains a day (including at least 8 BNSF, which has trackage rights from Stockton to Keddie, where it diverges north over the old WP "Highline" to Oregon).  An already over-taxed line is going to be even MORE overtaxed until UP can rebuild the trestle in Sacramento.  Hopefully, they'll re-build it with concrete and steel, since a fill over the American River floodplain leading to the bridge would not work.  

At least, using the WP main line through the Feather River Canyon will bring the trains into Sacramento over the old WP bridge to the south of the burned Ex-SP structure, into Sacramento, where a wye will take them onto the original east-west transcontinental route to Oakland and the Bay Area. 

This could not be worse for a major Northern California east-west transcontinental line, which is also the main UP line between California and Oregon.  Perhaps UP will work out a deal to send their Oregon traffic south along the now privately owned West End line (the old SP passenger line) between Red Bluff and Davis, but since the wye at Davis has been long removed, there is no real way to get northbound traffic onto the old SP West Side Line. 

'Tis not a pretty picture, IMO.  At least not for another several weeks to a month. 

Tom       

[CShaveRR]

I understand that whatever portion of the trestle wasn't leveled by the fire has been demolished by machinery.  They're talking April 1 for one track to be in service; May 1 for both tracks.  They did pretty well when the bridge at Galt, Illinois, was taken out by a wreck; this one is significantly longer, and wouldn't be easy to build a shoofly around.

[Modelcar]

....Is anyone close enough to see and determine what and how much action has started to redo the burned bridge yet.

Is it a "round the clock work action" now....?

Can someone keep us updated....?

[CShaveRR]

You're right, Larry--and now it can be rebuilt with nary so much as a splinter of wood in it.

[tree68]

Now if I had a wooden structure that important, I'd put a fire supression/alarm system on it.

We've got some firefighters on this board.  What'cha Think!  Sprinkler System?

And one heck of a pump. 

NFPA guideline for fire flow:  Length times width, divided by three, times number of floors involved.

1000 foot structure, 20 feet high (two stories), 20 feet wide.  13,000 gpm for the whole thing. 

But, the idea of sprinklers is to catch it early, so we don't need that much water.  But that is a lot of pipe to maintain, as well as having some form of nozzles.  It either has to be pressurized all the time, or you've got to have a ready supply of water.

Short answer - probably cheaper in the long run to rebuild than to maintain against a once in 50 years event.

[Modelcar]

 

....I'm interested to see how soon the UP folks can get train traffic on their new {soon to be built}, trestle.

Noted last evening on one of the news films....Fireman were at the leading edge off the trestle to the steel sections of the bridge structures playing hoses on the stubburn fire trying to get on the wood ties of the steel structures...It looked like they were going to get that stopped.

[jedi_tev]

Hey all im new here, im a conductor for UP I currently work on the mountain and the canyon. Im telling you that this is going to be a major hamper on freight. someone said above that they can re route through sacramento, on the sacramento sub. Fine and dandy, but the Sac sub is out of service. There is no rail road ties at all, south west of this. No way for freight to head to oakland, and no freight running south to fresno.

I'm a former Amtrak Conductor, are you saying there are no ties north of Haggin? I thought that was the line the Coast Starlight uses, if that part of it is still in service, they can run trains up to Marysville and then back down and there is a wye at Haggin, the trains can continue over to Evlas and south. 

 

[Jetrock]

The trestle is actually within the city limits of Sacramento--the American River parkway floods every year, so it looks like open countryside but it is surrounded by city on both sides. Because it floods regularly, it would be unlikely to get replaced by fill, so we'll most likely get a concrete trestle.

Rough week for that neck of the woods: the old interlocking tower at Elvas Junction is due to be razed soon, if it hasn't been done already.

 

The plume of smoke looked pretty amazing--I was driving home from work and caught a shot on my digital camera:

One thing I am almost kind of hoping for: While it is relatively easy to use a bus bridge for Capitol Corridor passengers east of Sacramento, there is perhaps an off-hand chance that the California Zephyr will get temporarily rerouted north on the old WP mainline, up through its original route through the Feather River Canyon. There is precedent for this: when UP does tunnel work in Colorado, they reroute the CZ through Wyoming on the original Union Pacific transcontinental route. If they do, I might just have to schedule a weekend trip to Reno and bring a whole lot of film!

[Datafever]

Mookie - UP could very well get billed for the emergency response too.

[mudchicken]

UP Could have at least one 300 foot precast concrete on steel piling bridge in place by Monday morning with the other complete by Wednesday. They probably have people, pile drivers, surfacing & track gangs, yellow and the replacement bridge pieces already en-route. The bigger delay problem is going to be dealing with the environmental regulatory wackos in CA that already have been well documented as being out of control with their own agenda. (They could care less that passenger and freight users will be inconvenienced in their narrow view of the world)

Mooks: Uncle Pete buys the bridge unless a culpable party is found.(Sharon Springs , KS revisited)

[Mookie]

Now that we have them rerouted - who gets to pay for the restoration?  Will it all be UP or will the county share in the cost? 

[spbed]

There is always the old WPRR Feather River route as a alternative until the UPRR rebuilds it

Here is another link

http://www.ktvu.com/news/11265818/detail.html

 

I have to say, some of those shots that have the entire trestle wreathed in flames are impressive.  Anyone know which railroad owned that trestle?

That trestle is the part of the Southern Pacific Cal-P mainline between Roseville, CA and Oakland, CA. This could be really bad for UP, since that bridge has around 50 trains a day pass through it. I would not be surprised that UP completely rebuilds that trestle and the line will be out of service for at minimum two weeks.

[stanames]

Is not there also an interchange track north of the river to allow Feather River trains to enter Rosville yard.  While I am sure this track is not meant for heavy traffic could it not be used during the next few weeks to help clear traffic?

 

Stan

[hrbdizzle]

I disagree with hrbdizzie, The WP Feather river canyon route comes down through Oroville, to Richmond.  There has to be an interchange with UP (SP) at Richmond, since they came into there also.  Then down th SP tracks to Oakland.  Also SP ran up through Marysville/Yuba City and through Oroville. There has to be a way to interchange somwhere along that route.

your correct, somewhat. coming that way from Oroville down the Sacramento sub, they can take a right hand turn and head to oakland. or Left to Elvas Wye. But to continue down the WP Sac sub, is not an option it out of service From all the way to stockton. From Sacramento.

[Kevin C. Smith]

Sees a lot of Amtrak use as well.

dd

That line is part of the SP Overland transcontinental route and also part of the I-5 north-south route. It could have very serious effects on railroad traffic in California until the bridge is rebuilt.

 

Urgh...I'm due through on the CZ on the 26th of next month. While I'm sure UP has no choice but to have it fixed well before then I'm glad my annual vacations moved from the end of March a few years ago. I'd be getting a call from Julie telling me of who knows what alternate arrangements.

[caldreamer]

I disagree with hrbdizzie, The WP Feather river canyon route comes down through Oroville, to Richmond.  There has to be an interchange with UP (SP) at Richmond, since they came into there also.  Then down th SP tracks to Oakland.  Also SP ran up through Marysville/Yuba City and through Oroville. There has to be a way to interchange somwhere along that route.

[canazar]

U just watched a news cast, via the internet site.  I am guessin it was a 9 or 10 pm show.  The news anchor commented that UP all ready had crews there waiting to get the word from the Fire Department t go.   No word yet how it got started....  

[Anonymous]

Like I've said before - Dispersed Redundancy is the best insurance policy when the cost of delays exceeds the cost of structural repair.

[greyhounds]

Now if I had a wooden structure that important, I'd put a fire supression/alarm system on it.

We've got some firefighters on this board.  What'cha Think!  Sprinkler System?

[Datafever]

Slideshow of fire

[Datafever]

[DSchmitt]

 

 

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=sacramento,+ca&layer=&ie=UTF8&z=17&ll=38.591936,-121.450435&spn=0.003639,0.01075&t=h&om=1

[hrbdizzle]

Hey all im new here, im a conductor for UP I currently work on the mountain and the canyon. Im telling you that this is going to be a major hamper on freight. someone said above that they can re route through sacramento, on the sacramento sub. Fine and dandy, but the Sac sub is out of service. There is no rail road ties at all, south west of this. No way for freight to head to oakland, and no freight running south to fresno.

[jclass]

Would they create a fill instead of reconstructing the trestle?

[SactoGuy188]

This is a main artery into the bay area.
Its out side of Sacramento, so it will be hard to reroute trains, unless their sent south a bit and brought in near fremont or somewhere over there. This will kill rail traffic into the bay for a while.

Fortunately, UP can still route the north-south trains using the former Western Pacific tracks through downtown Sacramento for now. Mind you, that could result in a lot of traffic delays through downtown as train traffic increases dramatically.... 

 

[Anonymous]

This is a main artery into the bay area.
Its out side of Sacramento, so it will be hard to reroute trains, unless their sent south a bit and brought in near fremont or somewhere over there. This will kill rail traffic into the bay for a while.

[Modelcar]

 

....I agree, railroads seem to have the ability to rebuild structures in such quick time...There will be a flood of activity probably before the hot spots cool down.  Somebody {Complete crew}, is already in the planning and executing stage to start the work.

[SactoGuy188]

Sees a lot of Amtrak use as well.

dd

That line is part of the SP Overland transcontinental route and also part of the I-5 north-south route. It could have very serious effects on railroad traffic in California until the bridge is rebuilt.