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BC Rail privatization at core of trial

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BC Rail privatization at core of trial
Posted by Datafever on Tuesday, March 6, 2007 11:13 PM

The Tyee - British Columbia / March 6, 2007

Will BC Rail Bomb Explode?

Basi-Virk lawyers allege deal was rigged by BC Libs.

The $1 billion privatization of B.C. Rail will be the explosive core of the upcoming April 2 trial of former provincial B.C. Liberal ministerial aides David Basi and Bob Virk on fraud and breach of trust charges.

That's what lawyers for the defence are alleging in a lengthy application for disclosure filed Feb. 27 in B.C. Supreme Court, saying the B.C. Rail deal is the key to the entire case -- and to their exoneration.

The defence dropped bombshell allegations that Premier Gordon Campbell's B.C. Liberal government had already delivered the deal to CN Rail before final bids were even considered and that Basi and Virk were only following Collins's orders to deliver a $70 to $100 million "consolation prize" to losing bidder OmniTRAX -- the B.C. Rail-owned Roberts Bank spur line.

But those are far from the only shocking allegations in the defence document.

And given that the defence has served notice it seeks a stay of proceedings against Basi, Virk and Basi "on the basis of an undermining of the accused's right to a fair trial," it may turn out that the claims made are never introduced as evidence because the trial never happens.

Full story here 

(The link to the story about the $1billion privatization is a December 4, 2003 story) 

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 7, 2007 8:24 PM

The Provincial government of British Columbia really blew it when they sold off BCRail to CN.  Service has deteriorated, track has deteriorated, rail worker moral has deteriorated, and public confidence in the BC government has deteriorated.  No one gained by this short sighted sale.

What BC should have done (and what I advised them to do) was to have made the BCRail system open to all connecting railroads via a user fee/public finance system.  That way, the online shippers would have had rate and service access not only from CN but also CP and BNSF/OmniTRAX.  The resulting competition would have attracted more business to the line, which would have increased Provincial tax receipts.  And of course it would have put the BCRail lines in perfect position for that proposed Alaskan/Yukon rail connection - think of the incentive for the Alaska Railroad to build south on their own with the possibility of getting a connection with three Class I's!

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Posted by enr2099 on Thursday, March 8, 2007 1:12 AM
 futuremodal wrote:

What BC should have done (and what I advised them to do) was to have made the BCRail system open to all connecting railroads via a user fee/public finance system.  That way, the online shippers would have had rate and service access not only from CN but also CP and BNSF/OmniTRAX. 

 

Not counting the BCR Port Subdivision. I believe CN is the only connecting railway with BC Rail. If they were to introduce that system the traffic would still have to be handled by CN, being interchanged with CN at North Vancouver, Prince George, or Dawson Creek. If the customer chose CP or BNSF/Omnitrax they would still be held captive by CN as the cars would have to be interchanged with CN at either end of the BCR. 

Tyler W. CN hog
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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, March 8, 2007 8:06 AM
 futuremodal wrote:

The Provincial government of British Columbia really blew it when they sold off BCRail to CN.  Service has deteriorated, track has deteriorated, rail worker moral has deteriorated, and public confidence in the BC government has deteriorated.  No one gained by this short sighted sale.

What BC should have done (and what I advised them to do) was to have made the BCRail system open to all connecting railroads via a user fee/public finance system.  That way, the online shippers would have had rate and service access not only from CN but also CP and BNSF/OmniTRAX.  The resulting competition would have attracted more business to the line, which would have increased Provincial tax receipts.  And of course it would have put the BCRail lines in perfect position for that proposed Alaskan/Yukon rail connection - think of the incentive for the Alaska Railroad to build south on their own with the possibility of getting a connection with three Class I's!

And why, pray tell, should they have listened to an inexperienced rail enthusiast such as you?

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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, March 8, 2007 8:20 AM
 CSSHEGEWISCH wrote:
 futuremodal wrote:

The Provincial government of British Columbia really blew it when they sold off BCRail to CN.  Service has deteriorated, track has deteriorated, rail worker moral has deteriorated, and public confidence in the BC government has deteriorated.  No one gained by this short sighted sale.

What BC should have done (and what I advised them to do) was to have made the BCRail system open to all connecting railroads via a user fee/public finance system.  That way, the online shippers would have had rate and service access not only from CN but also CP and BNSF/OmniTRAX.  The resulting competition would have attracted more business to the line, which would have increased Provincial tax receipts.  And of course it would have put the BCRail lines in perfect position for that proposed Alaskan/Yukon rail connection - think of the incentive for the Alaska Railroad to build south on their own with the possibility of getting a connection with three Class I's!

And why, pray tell, should they have listened to an inexperienced rail enthusiast such as you?

Because "an inexperienced rail enthusiast" such as I (if indeed that's what I am) has shown in retrospect that I have a better grip on the realities of the economic interaction among transportation entities and the social dynamic, than those experienced rail professionals who are 100% dedicated to fomenting the hopeless, hapless continuation of the integrated rail anachronism.

The resulting fiasco up in BC bears me out.

Remember, it's the message that counts, not the percieved credibility (or lack thereof) of the messenger.

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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, March 8, 2007 8:23 AM
 enr2099 wrote:
 futuremodal wrote:

What BC should have done (and what I advised them to do) was to have made the BCRail system open to all connecting railroads via a user fee/public finance system.  That way, the online shippers would have had rate and service access not only from CN but also CP and BNSF/OmniTRAX. 

Not counting the BCR Port Subdivision. I believe CN is the only connecting railway with BC Rail. If they were to introduce that system the traffic would still have to be handled by CN, being interchanged with CN at North Vancouver, Prince George, or Dawson Creek. If the customer chose CP or BNSF/Omnitrax they would still be held captive by CN as the cars would have to be interchanged with CN at either end of the BCR. 

Since both BNSF and CP also bid for BCRail, I expect they had contigencies to make the physical connections should they have been awarded the prize.  Those contingencies would probably also work if the BC government had opted to share rail transportation service access among those entities.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, March 8, 2007 10:06 AM
 futuremodal wrote:
 CSSHEGEWISCH wrote:
 futuremodal wrote:

The Provincial government of British Columbia really blew it when they sold off BCRail to CN.  Service has deteriorated, track has deteriorated, rail worker moral has deteriorated, and public confidence in the BC government has deteriorated.  No one gained by this short sighted sale.

What BC should have done (and what I advised them to do) was to have made the BCRail system open to all connecting railroads via a user fee/public finance system.  That way, the online shippers would have had rate and service access not only from CN but also CP and BNSF/OmniTRAX.  The resulting competition would have attracted more business to the line, which would have increased Provincial tax receipts.  And of course it would have put the BCRail lines in perfect position for that proposed Alaskan/Yukon rail connection - think of the incentive for the Alaska Railroad to build south on their own with the possibility of getting a connection with three Class I's!

And why, pray tell, should they have listened to an inexperienced rail enthusiast such as you?

Remember, it's the message that counts, not the percieved credibility (or lack thereof) of the messenger.

Credibility (perceived or actual) counts for more than you care to admit on whether your message gets heard or not.

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Thursday, March 8, 2007 11:05 AM
 futuremodal wrote:

What BC should have done (and what I advised them to do)

So, you had a consulting gig with BC, and they didn't listen to you?Evil [}:)]  I presume we'll see your name in the news, when they call you as an expert witness, don't you think?Wink [;)]

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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, March 8, 2007 9:09 PM
 CSSHEGEWISCH wrote:
 futuremodal wrote:
 CSSHEGEWISCH wrote:
 futuremodal wrote:

The Provincial government of British Columbia really blew it when they sold off BCRail to CN.  Service has deteriorated, track has deteriorated, rail worker moral has deteriorated, and public confidence in the BC government has deteriorated.  No one gained by this short sighted sale.

What BC should have done (and what I advised them to do) was to have made the BCRail system open to all connecting railroads via a user fee/public finance system.  That way, the online shippers would have had rate and service access not only from CN but also CP and BNSF/OmniTRAX.  The resulting competition would have attracted more business to the line, which would have increased Provincial tax receipts.  And of course it would have put the BCRail lines in perfect position for that proposed Alaskan/Yukon rail connection - think of the incentive for the Alaska Railroad to build south on their own with the possibility of getting a connection with three Class I's!

And why, pray tell, should they have listened to an inexperienced rail enthusiast such as you?

Remember, it's the message that counts, not the percieved credibility (or lack thereof) of the messenger.

Credibility (perceived or actual) counts for more than you care to admit on whether your message gets heard or not.

So next time I'm walking down the street and I see you're on fire, I'm not supposed to go over and put out the fire because I'm not a professional firefighter?

 

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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, March 8, 2007 9:15 PM
 Murphy Siding wrote:
 futuremodal wrote:

What BC should have done (and what I advised them to do)

So, you had a consulting gig with BC, and they didn't listen to you?Evil [}:)]  I presume we'll see your name in the news, when they call you as an expert witness, don't you think?Wink [;)]

No, there was no consulting gig.  Never said there was. 

It was a simple case of unsolicitited advice from a person with some past experience/research in transportation-related issues.

I would venture a guess that I was not the only person who offered this particular piece of advice. 

I would also venture a guess that the Provincial government had their minds made up well before the public anouncement of the intended sale of BCRail.

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Posted by enr2099 on Friday, March 9, 2007 3:36 AM
 futuremodal wrote:

Since both BNSF and CP also bid for BCRail, I expect they had contigencies to make the physical connections should they have been awarded the prize.  Those contingencies would probably also work if the BC government had opted to share rail transportation service access among those entities.

 

What would be in it for CN to let CP or BNSF use the North Shore Industrial line? If CP or BNSF won the operator contract for BC Rail they would either have to pay for running rights on CN's North Shore Industrial Line, interchange with CN, or build their own connection(virtually impossible considering a very large bridge would haveto be built across Burrard Inlet). 

 

My point is CN was chosen because they are the only railway that has a direct physical connection to BC Rail and paid a buttload of money. 

 

BTW, I heard there was another company that was in the bidding for BC Rail, RailAmerica. They were apparently removed from the bidding process by the province for the mess they made with the E&N. Anyone know if this was true?

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Posted by TH&B on Friday, March 9, 2007 4:52 AM
I would have liked to see BNSF buy BCR, it would likely have retained it's north / south orientation. Giving it to CN risks abandonment as a through route North vancouver to Prince George.
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, March 9, 2007 7:03 PM
 enr2099 wrote:
 futuremodal wrote:

Since both BNSF and CP also bid for BCRail, I expect they had contigencies to make the physical connections should they have been awarded the prize.  Those contingencies would probably also work if the BC government had opted to share rail transportation service access among those entities.

What would be in it for CN to let CP or BNSF use the North Shore Industrial line? If CP or BNSF won the operator contract for BC Rail they would either have to pay for running rights on CN's North Shore Industrial Line, interchange with CN, or build their own connection(virtually impossible considering a very large bridge would haveto be built across Burrard Inlet). 

My point is CN was chosen because they are the only railway that has a direct physical connection to BC Rail and paid a buttload of money. 

The reason I think such a connection could have come about was that BCRail had a history of modern day railroad expansion.  Heck, they were still punching their way north as late as the 1970's, weren't they?  What's one little bridge accross to Burnaby compared to that?

Hey, if the BC government needed to they could have built a union bridge, maybe a combination rail/highway bridge to facilitate that rail connection.  Don't they need another highway bridge over the narrows as well?

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Friday, March 9, 2007 9:43 PM
 futuremodal wrote:
 Murphy Siding wrote:
 futuremodal wrote:

What BC should have done (and what I advised them to do)

So, you had a consulting gig with BC, and they didn't listen to you?Evil [}:)]  I presume we'll see your name in the news, when they call you as an expert witness, don't you think?Wink [;)]

No, there was no consulting gig.  Never said there was. 

It was a simple case of unsolicitited advice from a person with some past experience/research in transportation-related issues.

I would venture a guess that I was not the only person who offered this particular piece of advice. 

I would also venture a guess that the Provincial government had their minds made up well before the public anouncement of the intended sale of BCRail.

Ya know.....I just can't believe that a multi-billion dollar railroad corporation doesn't take unsolicited advice from railfans.  What were they thinking?Mischief [:-,]

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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, March 10, 2007 11:51 AM

 Murphy Siding wrote:
  Ya know.....I just can't believe that a multi-billion dollar railroad corporation doesn't take unsolicited advice from railfans.  What were they thinking?Mischief [:-,]

First, you have to know what you're talking about.  And you obviously don't.

BCRail wasn't a multi-billion dollar corporation, it was a Provincially ran publicly owned railroad.

Secondly, my conversations with them were not those of a "railfan" offering advice, but conversations between an independent transportation researcher and a government body soliciting public comment (albeit from it's citizens, not from unnaffected Americans, thus the "unsolicited" characterization).  I stated my background prior to my recommendations, and referenced the research behind the open access concept.  The basic premise was that the BC government would ostensibly want what's best for the BCRail shippers over the long term, and allowing one Class I to take over the line would lead to service problems getting worse, not better, given the different operating characteristics of the line in question, and could ultimately lead to the loss of the BCRail line altogether. 

The fact that they were willing to engage me in such conversations was encouraging at the time, but even the reps I spoke with seemed consigned to the ulterior wishes of the Provincial government.

I still think this CN takeover will lead to the eventual abandonment of the southern portion of the line.

 

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Posted by selector on Saturday, March 10, 2007 1:58 PM

My comment is entirely beside the point, and doesn't sound much less than churlish, I am sure, but this whole thing stems back to a culture, a history in Canada, of governmental interference.

In fact we probably introduced the common notion of the term "railroading". Mischief [:-,]. It started when the Feds payed millions and encouraged a nationalized conglomerate formerly known as the Canadian National(ized) Railway way back in the early 1900's.  The Nation's entire economic future then hung on similar excursions into crown dependencies with the Wheat Pool and others.  Provincial Governments have not been immune.  When the BC electorate suffered from a collective hypoxia and elected Barrett's Bandits in the early 70's, the Province became a haven for collectivist thinkers, heavy taxationists, and unions.  Despite several changes of government, we can't seem to get off this galloping and ornery horse, and it doesn't seem ready to buck us off just yet. 

BC's recent history of government debacles, such as the Fast Cat ferries that were recently sold of on pennies to the dollar are just an example.  No sooner were they built when those whose homes rested on the adjacent littorals complained that the larger wakes were causing more erosion.  Oops.  And, never mind the bloated cost overruns...the government has deep pockets.

Grrrrr.  SoapBox [soapbox] out.

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Saturday, March 10, 2007 2:28 PM
 futuremodal wrote:

 Murphy Siding wrote:
  Ya know.....I just can't believe that a multi-billion dollar railroad corporation doesn't take unsolicited advice from railfans.  What were they thinking?Mischief [:-,]

First, you have to know what you're talking about.  And you obviously don't.

BCRail wasn't a multi-billion dollar corporation, it was a Provincially ran publicly owned railroad.

Secondly, my conversations with them were not those of a "railfan" offering advice, but conversations between an independent transportation researcher and a government body soliciting public comment (albeit from it's citizens, not from unnaffected Americans, thus the "unsolicited" characterization).  I stated my background prior to my recommendations, and referenced the research behind the open access concept.  The basic premise was that the BC government would ostensibly want what's best for the BCRail shippers over the long term, and allowing one Class I to take over the line would lead to service problems getting worse, not better, given the different operating characteristics of the line in question, and could ultimately lead to the loss of the BCRail line altogether. 

The fact that they were willing to engage me in such conversations was encouraging at the time, but even the reps I spoke with seemed consigned to the ulterior wishes of the Provincial government.

I still think this CN takeover will lead to the eventual abandonment of the southern portion of the line.

  My bad!  I was thinking CN, not BC.  My apologies.  I should have said: Ya know.....I just can't believe that a multi-million dollar railroad corporation doesn't take unsolicited advice from railfans.  What were they thinking?Wink [;)]

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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, March 10, 2007 6:36 PM

 Murphy Siding wrote:
    My bad!  I was thinking CN, not BC.  My apologies.  I should have said: Ya know.....I just can't believe that a multi-million dollar railroad corporation doesn't take unsolicited advice from railfans.  What were they thinking?Wink [;)]

Hmmmmmm......

Methinks you find it incredulous that big corporations may take the time to provide audience to nobody's like me who just happen to have an idea or two.  Certainly it isn't par for the course, but some rail-related corporations big and small often do take the time to listen to unsolicited input, even to the point of providing transportation, room, and board to the meeting.  I've had the fortune to get such audiences from two Class I railroads, three shortline/regionals, two rail car manufacturers, one railcar leasing company, and one bi-modal company.

Murphy, my advice to you (unsolicited, of course!Wink [;)] ) should you ever have an idea you'd like to present to some corporate bigwigs, is to go for it.  9 times out of 10 you'll be rejected, but that 1 time you are accepted is pretty sweet.

Just make sure you get some legal advice first.

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Posted by enr2099 on Saturday, March 10, 2007 7:26 PM
 futuremodal wrote:

  What's one little bridge accross to Burnaby compared to that?

Hey, if the BC government needed to they could have built a union bridge, maybe a combination rail/highway bridge to facilitate that rail connection.  Don't they need another highway bridge over the narrows as well?

 

Up north they have land to spare. We're talking about building a rail line through two very densly population city centres downtown Vancouver and right through North Vancouver.

In order to avoid the CN connection a bridge would have to be built across Burrard Inlet from Downtown Vancouver right into the heart of North Vancouver. The approachs to the bridge would be built on prime real estate, it would NEVER happen. The NIMBY's would never allow it. If a bridge was built east of the CN Second Narrows Bridge a connection would still have to be built through North Vancouver the costs would be astronomical, and again the NIMBY's would have a field day. CN has an existing connection at either end of of the BCR and either the RR or the government would have to spend little to no money by using the existing connections, it makes perfect finnancial sense that way. 

Tyler W. CN hog
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Posted by Murphy Siding on Saturday, March 10, 2007 8:32 PM
 futuremodal wrote:

 Murphy Siding wrote:
    My bad!  I was thinking CN, not BC.  My apologies.  I should have said: Ya know.....I just can't believe that a multi-million dollar railroad corporation doesn't take unsolicited advice from railfans.  What were they thinking?Wink [;)]

Hmmmmmm......

Methinks you find it incredulous that big corporations may take the time to provide audience to nobody's like me who just happen to have an idea or two.  Certainly it isn't par for the course, but some rail-related corporations big and small often do take the time to listen to unsolicited input, even to the point of providing transportation, room, and board to the meeting.  I've had the fortune to get such audiences from two Class I railroads, three shortline/regionals, two rail car manufacturers, one railcar leasing company, and one bi-modal company.

Murphy, my advice to you (unsolicited, of course!Wink [;)] ) should you ever have an idea you'd like to present to some corporate bigwigs, is to go for it.  9 times out of 10 you'll be rejected, but that 1 time you are accepted is pretty sweet.

Just make sure you get some legal advice first.

    That being the case, I applaud you.  Let me know when you have an audience with Kevin Schaeffer.  I'm in the next building to the east of his office.  Have your people call my people-we'll do lunch!Dinner [dinner]

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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, March 11, 2007 8:53 PM
 enr2099 wrote:
 futuremodal wrote:

  What's one little bridge accross to Burnaby compared to that?

Hey, if the BC government needed to they could have built a union bridge, maybe a combination rail/highway bridge to facilitate that rail connection.  Don't they need another highway bridge over the narrows as well?

Up north they have land to spare. We're talking about building a rail line through two very densly population city centres downtown Vancouver and right through North Vancouver.

In order to avoid the CN connection a bridge would have to be built across Burrard Inlet from Downtown Vancouver right into the heart of North Vancouver. The approachs to the bridge would be built on prime real estate, it would NEVER happen. The NIMBY's would never allow it. If a bridge was built east of the CN Second Narrows Bridge a connection would still have to be built through North Vancouver the costs would be astronomical, and again the NIMBY's would have a field day. CN has an existing connection at either end of of the BCR and either the RR or the government would have to spend little to no money by using the existing connections, it makes perfect finnancial sense that way. 

Question:  Does the BCRail/CN connection itself have a CN/CP or CN/BNSF connection further down the line?  What I'm wondering is if it would have been possible to build a parallel line alongside the CN ROW (perhaps using the Canadian version of eminent domain) between the BCRail end of track and either CP or BNSF?  That alone would've been more practical than an expensive connection through the heart of urbania.

I also have heard about plans for a new highway bridge between North Vancouver and Vancouver/Burnaby.  Would there have been room along a highway ROW for a rail connection?

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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, March 11, 2007 8:55 PM
 Murphy Siding wrote:
 futuremodal wrote:

 Murphy Siding wrote:
    My bad!  I was thinking CN, not BC.  My apologies.  I should have said: Ya know.....I just can't believe that a multi-million dollar railroad corporation doesn't take unsolicited advice from railfans.  What were they thinking?Wink [;)]

Hmmmmmm......

Methinks you find it incredulous that big corporations may take the time to provide audience to nobody's like me who just happen to have an idea or two.  Certainly it isn't par for the course, but some rail-related corporations big and small often do take the time to listen to unsolicited input, even to the point of providing transportation, room, and board to the meeting.  I've had the fortune to get such audiences from two Class I railroads, three shortline/regionals, two rail car manufacturers, one railcar leasing company, and one bi-modal company.

Murphy, my advice to you (unsolicited, of course!Wink [;)] ) should you ever have an idea you'd like to present to some corporate bigwigs, is to go for it.  9 times out of 10 you'll be rejected, but that 1 time you are accepted is pretty sweet.

Just make sure you get some legal advice first.

    That being the case, I applaud you.  Let me know when you have an audience with Kevin Schaeffer.  I'm in the next building to the west of his office.  Have your people call my people-we'll do lunch!Dinner [dinner]

Sounds great.  Does Sioux Falls have a Hooters?

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Sunday, March 11, 2007 8:58 PM

 futuremodal wrote:
Sounds great.  Does Sioux Falls have a Hooters?

Laugh [(-D]  We must be a little out of the norm here.  Both our Hooters and Krispy Kreme went out of business, while national franchises line up to get into town.

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Posted by enr2099 on Tuesday, March 13, 2007 3:00 AM
 futuremodal wrote:

Question:  Does the BCRail/CN connection itself have a CN/CP or CN/BNSF connection further down the line?  What I'm wondering is if it would have been possible to build a parallel line alongside the CN ROW (perhaps using the Canadian version of eminent domain) between the BCRail end of track and either CP or BNSF?  That alone would've been more practical than an expensive connection through the heart of urbania.

CN's North Shore Industrial Line connects to the New Westminster Sub via a 2 mile long tunnel that runs under downtown Burnaby, a second tunnel and a bridge would have to be built which would cost a lot of money, the Province, BNSF, and CPR would never put that amount of money up. There is a CPR connection further south, and the New Westminster Sub is also used by BNSF to Vancouver. It would not be possible to build a line next to the ROW. The whole line runs through very densly populated areas.

I also have heard about plans for a new highway bridge between North Vancouver and Vancouver/Burnaby.  Would there have been room along a highway ROW for a rail connection?

The bridge would have to be further east of the Ironworkers Memorial Bridge and CN's Second Narrows bridge. Any rail connection would have to use CN's Seymour Branch and the North Shore Industrial Line to get to the BCR because there is NO land to build a seperate connection.

 

The Province was trying to get rid of the railway not spend millions on an unnecessary rail connection when one already exists that requires no money.

Tyler W. CN hog
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Posted by jeaton on Tuesday, March 13, 2007 8:59 AM
 Murphy Siding wrote:
 futuremodal wrote:

 Murphy Siding wrote:
    My bad!  I was thinking CN, not BC.  My apologies.  I should have said: Ya know.....I just can't believe that a multi-million dollar railroad corporation doesn't take unsolicited advice from railfans.  What were they thinking?Wink [;)]

Hmmmmmm......

Methinks you find it incredulous that big corporations may take the time to provide audience to nobody's like me who just happen to have an idea or two.  Certainly it isn't par for the course, but some rail-related corporations big and small often do take the time to listen to unsolicited input, even to the point of providing transportation, room, and board to the meeting.  I've had the fortune to get such audiences from two Class I railroads, three shortline/regionals, two rail car manufacturers, one railcar leasing company, and one bi-modal company.

Murphy, my advice to you (unsolicited, of course!Wink [;)] ) should you ever have an idea you'd like to present to some corporate bigwigs, is to go for it.  9 times out of 10 you'll be rejected, but that 1 time you are accepted is pretty sweet.

Just make sure you get some legal advice first.

    That being the case, I applaud you.  Let me know when you have an audience with Kevin Schaeffer.  I'm in the next building to the east of his office.  Have your people call my people-we'll do lunch!Dinner [dinner]

And you would be surpirsed at how quickly railroads will act on the usolicitated advice of rail fans, especially when it comes how and where the railroads should spend their money.

"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics

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Posted by edblysard on Tuesday, March 13, 2007 9:43 AM

Oh, absolutely...

I keep consulting...advising...uh, pestering all the Class1s to ignore the open access nonsense.

Look how well they listen!Big Smile [:D]

23 17 46 11

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, March 13, 2007 10:19 AM
Dave needs to realize that the value of his advice is going to be based on how much he was paid for it by the decisionmakers.
The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, March 13, 2007 7:31 PM
 enr2099 wrote:
 futuremodal wrote:

Question:  Does the BCRail/CN connection itself have a CN/CP or CN/BNSF connection further down the line?  What I'm wondering is if it would have been possible to build a parallel line alongside the CN ROW (perhaps using the Canadian version of eminent domain) between the BCRail end of track and either CP or BNSF?  That alone would've been more practical than an expensive connection through the heart of urbania.

CN's North Shore Industrial Line connects to the New Westminster Sub via a 2 mile long tunnel that runs under downtown Burnaby, a second tunnel and a bridge would have to be built which would cost a lot of money, the Province, BNSF, and CPR would never put that amount of money up. There is a CPR connection further south, and the New Westminster Sub is also used by BNSF to Vancouver. It would not be possible to build a line next to the ROW. The whole line runs through very densly populated areas.

I also have heard about plans for a new highway bridge between North Vancouver and Vancouver/Burnaby.  Would there have been room along a highway ROW for a rail connection?

The bridge would have to be further east of the Ironworkers Memorial Bridge and CN's Second Narrows bridge. Any rail connection would have to use CN's Seymour Branch and the North Shore Industrial Line to get to the BCR because there is NO land to build a seperate connection.

Well, there's always the nuclear option - confistication (with due compensation, of course) of that particular CN ROW via whatever form of Canadian eminent domain there might be.  It's nasty and confrontational, but if CP or OmniTRAX had managed to outbid CN for BCRail, they'd need some way to connect the two properties.  So it stands to reason an OA BCRail would need the same connectivity.

The Province was trying to get rid of the railway not spend millions on an unnecessary rail connection when one already exists that requires no money.

That's what we all figured was really the primary desire of the *sale*.

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, March 13, 2007 7:34 PM
 Murphy Siding wrote:

 futuremodal wrote:
Sounds great.  Does Sioux Falls have a Hooters?

Laugh [(-D]  We must be a little out of the norm here.  Both our Hooters and Krispy Kreme went out of business, while national franchises line up to get into town.

Maybe they should have combined the two franchises into one!

"Mmmmmmmmmmm.......Krispy Kreme Hooters........aaggllallaaggaal"Dinner [dinner][_:-I]

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Posted by enr2099 on Wednesday, March 14, 2007 9:47 PM
 futuremodal wrote:

Well, there's always the nuclear option - confistication (with due compensation, of course) of that particular CN ROW via whatever form of Canadian eminent domain there might be.  It's nasty and confrontational, but if CP or OmniTRAX had managed to outbid CN for BCRail, they'd need some way to connect the two properties.  So it stands to reason an OA BCRail would need the same connectivity.

 

I get what you're saying but why would they? It would be so much easier to interchange with CN. Omnitrax has no connection at all and would have to interchange with CN eventually.

 

Now we have to ask what happens to CN's customers on the North Shore? Say CN gets forced out who will service them? CPR has already said they wouldn't, and Omnitrax wouldn't be able to, too much work not enough people. Not only that but you are taking work away from me, I work this line every day. If CN was forced out I would be out of a job as approximately 50% of the work in the terminal would be given up.

 CN was the logical choice, I don't like it, nobody does, but these decisions are made for a reason.

Tyler W. CN hog

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