emmar wrote:Is 95 an average train speed for British passenger lines? I know that Amtrak runs its trains at whatever speed the tracks can handle is this the same case over on the other side of the pond.
The Pendolino is cleared for 125 mph and was designed for 140 mph. The train was passing through a climbing series of "S" curves which limited the speed to 95 mph. A mile previously the limit was 110 mph. There are sections nearby cleared for 125 mph. Yes like Amtrak, conditions limit the top speed of trains.
beaulieu wrote: emmar wrote:Is 95 an average train speed for British passenger lines? I know that Amtrak runs its trains at whatever speed the tracks can handle is this the same case over on the other side of the pond.The Pendolino is cleared for 125 mph and was designed for 140 mph. The train was passing through a climbing series of "S" curves which limited the speed to 95 mph. A mile previously the limit was 110 mph. There are sections nearby cleared for 125 mph. Yes like Amtrak, conditions limit the top speed of trains.
But what wonderful speeds! "Pendolino" sounds vaguely Italian to me. Is this a "tilt" train of some sort? And if you remember "back in the day" how fast could British Rail run its passenger equipment on that line?
It is indeed a tilt train, they were introduced about 3 years ago, replacing hauled coaches and overhead electric locomotives. Up until then, the max line speed on the fastest stretches along the west coast route was 110mph. They've been spending millions over the last few years upgrading track and signaling along this line for the new trains and increased line speeds. Everything seemed to be going very well until this latest incident and i understand the focus is now on a set of points localy operated by a ground frame. An emergency crossover of sorts i'd imagine. Sadly, there has now been 1 confirmed fatality.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/6392181.stm
Here is some updated info.
English Rail Accident Lambrigg
http://www.burgess57.freeserve.co.uk/Lambrigg.jpg
Source Website
http://www.burgess57.freeserve.co.uk/latest.htm
Yes they run very high speeds on that part of railroading.
If you visit the site regularly, you might catch some British Mainline Certified Steam working actual revenue service or fan trips.
"An elderly woman died and several other passengers were critically injured when a crowded Virgin express train crashed in Cumbria last night.
"A huge rescue operation involving RAF helicopters and dozens of ambulances was launched after passengers were trapped in the train for more than four hours because fallen power lines made access by emergency workers difficult."
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1432180.ece
Gary UK wrote:the focus is now on a set of points localy operated by a ground frame. An emergency crossover of sorts i'd imagine. Sadly, there has now been 1 confirmed fatality.
the focus is now on a set of points localy operated by a ground frame. An emergency crossover of sorts i'd imagine. Sadly, there has now been 1 confirmed fatality.
Pardon my ignorance, but does "a set of points" mean a switch?
Tenspeed wrote: Gary UK wrote:the focus is now on a set of points localy operated by a ground frame. An emergency crossover of sorts i'd imagine. Sadly, there has now been 1 confirmed fatality.Pardon my ignorance, but does "a set of points" mean a switch?
Yes, the British refer to a switch as a "Set of Points".
Gary UK wrote: It is indeed a tilt train, they were introduced about 3 years ago, replacing hauled coaches and overhead electric locomotives. Up until then, the max line speed on the fastest stretches along the west coast route was 110mph. They've been spending millions over the last few years upgrading track and signaling along this line for the new trains and increased line speeds. Everything seemed to be going very well until this latest incident and i understand the focus is now on a set of points localy operated by a ground frame. An emergency crossover of sorts i'd imagine. Sadly, there has now been 1 confirmed fatality.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/6392181.stm
What does "ground frame" mean? Is that a piece of equipment, or a reference to a company that is responsible for keeping the track safe?
BBC wrote: "Excellent investment Although clearly the death and injuries in this crash are deeply regrettable, the bright side for the industry is the way that the new coaches withstood an accident at such high speed. The death toll is far lower than might have been expected and certainly much lower than in similar accidents in the past when derailments or collisions have led to dozens of fatalities. The fact that the coaches have remained in one piece, without shattering or crumpling, is testimony to the high standards of design, a result of experience learnt from these previous disasters. The billions of pounds spent on improving safety since the dark days of the 1990s have proved to be an excellent investment and will reassure people that the railways remain the safest form of transport." Also: "Maureen Kavanagh, from the Safety on Trains Action Group, said the Pendolino train in the Cumbria crash had saved a lot of lives and injuries. She founded the group after her son Peter died in the Southall train crash in 1997. "The carriages remained intact, and none of the windows broke because when I saw that they'd actually gone down the embankment, I thought that many people would be thrown through the windows," she said. "And the fact is the actual passengers were contained within the train and that probably saved a lot of lives. And that's just because it was a state of the art train.""
"Excellent investment
Although clearly the death and injuries in this crash are deeply regrettable, the bright side for the industry is the way that the new coaches withstood an accident at such high speed. The death toll is far lower than might have been expected and certainly much lower than in similar accidents in the past when derailments or collisions have led to dozens of fatalities. The fact that the coaches have remained in one piece, without shattering or crumpling, is testimony to the high standards of design, a result of experience learnt from these previous disasters. The billions of pounds spent on improving safety since the dark days of the 1990s have proved to be an excellent investment and will reassure people that the railways remain the safest form of transport."
Also: "Maureen Kavanagh, from the Safety on Trains Action Group, said the Pendolino train in the Cumbria crash had saved a lot of lives and injuries. She founded the group after her son Peter died in the Southall train crash in 1997. "The carriages remained intact, and none of the windows broke because when I saw that they'd actually gone down the embankment, I thought that many people would be thrown through the windows," she said. "And the fact is the actual passengers were contained within the train and that probably saved a lot of lives. And that's just because it was a state of the art train.""
"Excellent investment" - Something we will never know in North America.
al-in-chgo wrote: Gary UK wrote: It is indeed a tilt train, they were introduced about 3 years ago, replacing hauled coaches and overhead electric locomotives. Up until then, the max line speed on the fastest stretches along the west coast route was 110mph. They've been spending millions over the last few years upgrading track and signaling along this line for the new trains and increased line speeds. Everything seemed to be going very well until this latest incident and i understand the focus is now on a set of points localy operated by a ground frame. An emergency crossover of sorts i'd imagine. Sadly, there has now been 1 confirmed fatality.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/6392181.stm What does "ground frame" mean? Is that a piece of equipment, or a reference to a company that is responsible for keeping the track safe?
A Ground Frame is like our Switchstand, but theirs have a different design than ours. As of late Saturday Afternoon, they are now looking at loose bolts on the stretcher bar. If this does turn out to be the case, this would be the same problem as caused the disastrous Potter's Bar derailment a few years ago.
beaulieu wrote: al-in-chgo wrote: Gary UK wrote: It is indeed a tilt train, they were introduced about 3 years ago, replacing hauled coaches and overhead electric locomotives. Up until then, the max line speed on the fastest stretches along the west coast route was 110mph. They've been spending millions over the last few years upgrading track and signaling along this line for the new trains and increased line speeds. Everything seemed to be going very well until this latest incident and i understand the focus is now on a set of points localy operated by a ground frame. An emergency crossover of sorts i'd imagine. Sadly, there has now been 1 confirmed fatality.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/6392181.stm What does "ground frame" mean? Is that a piece of equipment, or a reference to a company that is responsible for keeping the track safe? A Ground Frame is like our Switchstand, but theirs have a different design than ours. As of late Saturday Afternoon, they are now looking at loose bolts on the stretcher bar. If this does turn out to be the case, this would be the same problem as caused the disastrous Potter's Bar derailment a few years ago.
Yep, spot on. Localy controlled switch. You normaly have to call the panel box/signal box/ tower to ask them for 'a release', this then effectivly hands over control of the switch to you. I used one last night to cross over a ballast train.
Unfortunately it now seems increasingly likely that this was down to a switch failure again!
Pendolino is indeed an Italian design, by Fiat Ferroviaria, the rolling-stock-division of Fiat. A Pendolino is a DMU or EMU - like the consist in this sad accident - and AFAIK it is the most successful design of tilt-trains. They run in several countries, not only the UK and Italy. IIRC, they tested on the NEC prior to the acquisition of the Acelas by AMTRAK. I don't know why AMTRAK didn't want them. The Acela is a different design, roughly two streamlined A-units with passenger-coaches between.
BTW, I don't understand why it should be impossible to design new US-rolling-stock to the the same safety standard as the Virgin-Pendolini. Patent problems perhaps?
martin.knoepfel wrote: Pendolino is indeed an Italian design, by Fiat Ferroviaria, the rolling-stock-division of Fiat. A Pendolino is a DMU or EMU - like the consist in this sad accident - and AFAIK it is the most successful design of tilt-trains. They run in several countries, not only the UK and Italy. IIRC, they tested on the NEC prior to the acquisition of the Acelas by AMTRAK. I don't know why AMTRAK didn't want them. The Acela is a different design, roughly two streamlined A-units with passenger-coaches between. BTW, I don't understand why it should be impossible to design new US-rolling-stock to the the same safety standard as the Virgin-Pendolini. Patent problems perhaps?
I believe amtrak purposely wanted to have two power cars at both ends of the trains for safety reasons. In the end of event of a crash, the power cars are designed to take most of the impact of crash. In a crash, the powers are designed to crumple which would absorb the shock of a crash. That's why there are power cars at both end and the train has a ridiculous amount of horsepower (12,000 hp). It's a safety thing.
MerrilyWeRollAlong wrote: martin.knoepfel wrote: Pendolino is indeed an Italian design, by Fiat Ferroviaria, the rolling-stock-division of Fiat. A Pendolino is a DMU or EMU - like the consist in this sad accident - and AFAIK it is the most successful design of tilt-trains. They run in several countries, not only the UK and Italy. IIRC, they tested on the NEC prior to the acquisition of the Acelas by AMTRAK. I don't know why AMTRAK didn't want them. The Acela is a different design, roughly two streamlined A-units with passenger-coaches between. BTW, I don't understand why it should be impossible to design new US-rolling-stock to the the same safety standard as the Virgin-Pendolini. Patent problems perhaps?I believe amtrak purposely wanted to have two power cars at both ends of the trains for safety reasons. In the end of event of a crash, the power cars are designed to take most of the impact of crash. In a crash, the powers are designed to crumple which would absorb the shock of a crash. That's why there are power cars at both end and the train has a ridiculous amount of horsepower (12,000 hp). It's a safety thing.
There is no such thing as TOO MUCH Horsepower. This is America after all.
I cannot think in numbers higher than what I am trained with 18 wheeler Power Curves but it gotta take a hell of alot of horses to maintain a object like the Acela at a constant speed.
The one thing I am jealous of a little bit.. is that the UK Trains are doing what we should be doing but arent. We sit on the rusting North East Corridor while our butcher Government starves and bleeds Ambroke dry.
The UK 'Rail Accident Investigation Branch' has just released an iterim report - see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/26_02_07_grayrigg.pdf
The immediate cause of the derailment was faults with the stretcher and locking bars on the points (switch) which allowed the blades to move freely.
Tony
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.