Well, I suppose that we could discuss the politics of railroading... Or perhaps the economics of railroading... Or maybe we could stick to "Hey, I saw this locomotive the other day"... Or "What do you suppose would have happened if Conrail (or any other railroad) had done..."
Or perhaps you have some ideas for topics that you would like to discuss. I think that there are quite a few people here who are more than willing to offer their opinions - after all, that's what we are really here for, isn't it?
There are some topics that I have no interest in either, so I can empathize with you.
Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has.
I'll agree that some topics annoy me. But then, some things I find interest in probably annoy others. The antidote would be to start a new topic about something that interests you. Some of the topics only get a lot of attention because there's nothing better to read.
So, what interests you about trains and railroading?
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Murphy Siding wrote: I'll agree that some topics annoy me. But then, some things I find interest in probably annoy others. The antidote would be to start a new topic about something that interests you. Some of the topics only get a lot of attention because there's nothing better to read. So, what interests you about trains and railroading?
What else can you talk about when your 6ft deep in snow and -25degrees for weeks at a time ! This kind of weather is NOT conducive to railfanning ! Ive noticed on here the topics are rapidly dwindling and I believe the weather in the upper mid and eastern U.S. is a factor...Thats my 2cents..Stay warm guys,Danny
I have pondered this subject since yesterday. Keep wanting to put in my 2 cents, but not sure if anyone would really read it or even care.
Maybe that is one of the problems I ask questions about the basic running of a railroad, what I am seeing when I railfan and general interest questions about railroading. I get the answers from pretty much the same basic people - Carl, Mudchix and Ed. Once in awhile someone else will chime in, but usually not. The question is never expounded on, no one ever bothers to ask something related to it, and within a few hours it is buried 2-4 pages down the list.
I am not complaining about not getting reams of answers, but about the nonsense that usually buries good subjects. People have had some very good questions, but never get answers because there are so many people that - in my opinion only - are posting just to make sure we have a hundred topics in one to two days. Not everyone reads this everyday. Railroad people have to go to work and are sometimes gone several days and when they get back, they don't have the time to hunt through 12 pages of whatever to find a topic they can address. We have lost a lot of great input from these professionals just because they don't want to wade through all the postings.
My suggestion would be to think about a topic before you post it (a subject that has been beaten to death many, many times before), go back and research the previous topics to see if it has been discussed ad nauseum and I would encourage people who normally want to post but hesitate because they aren't sure they even want to get into this mess, please do post.
There is so much good information from so many places out there and by the same token, there are so many good questions that are never asked.
Someone want to offer a different opinion or debate this with me?
Mookie
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
When one or all of those gents answer, they pretty well got it covered no sense adding on
Mookie, to add on to what railcar wrote -
We each have our areas of interest. I also am interested in railroad operations. But I can't answer questions about it. I can, at best, read and learn and ask questions of my own. My preferred area of discussion is the economic/political aspects of railroading. Others have an abounding interest in the historical aspects.
There are times when news items get posted twice. That's regrettable, but understandable. Most days, by the time I am able to visit the forum (mid-morning west coast time), there have been 20 to 30 threads posted to. I pop in and out all day long, checking out the threads that interest me, but some days it takes me until rather late to get caught up. That's why I normally don't post news items until late in the day. I do try to filter the news items that I post - trust me on this one, there are a lot more that I don't post than what I do post. And sometimes I will refrain from posting an item only to have someone else post that item later on. Oh, well.
It seems to me that people post to threads that they find interesting. It is possible that we could ask Bergie to break the forum up into two or three forums, each with a more specific area of interest.
Data - maybe we should start a thread about questions you always wanted to ask? I just get the feeling that a lot of people are intimidated by those of us that are more comfortable with posting.
And...I get frustrated 'cause I didn't take the "Evelyn Wood Speed Reading Class"....This forum moves at the speed of light.
Railcar - I have to agree!
Mook
Mookie wrote: Data - maybe we should start a thread about questions you always wanted to ask? I just get the feeling that a lot of people are intimidated by those of us that are more comfortable with posting. And...I get frustrated 'cause I didn't take the "Evelyn Wood Speed Reading Class"....This forum moves at the speed of light.Railcar - I have to agree!Mook
Although I don't share your issue I can empathise...I think subdividing the Trains Forum would not necessarily be a bad thing...Ask The Professional...could be one.....Amtrak could certainly be another.....Railroads and Politics could be another....History...and then General Topics...it would certainly be more organised...
Brian (IA) http://blhanel.rrpicturearchives.net.
blhanel wrote:Actually, if we and/or Bergie really want to get picky, there is already a forum more or less dedicated to history- the Classic Trains forum. Alot of the topics posted here dealing with long-lost railroads and such should really get posted over there.
One peeve with that forum is there are one two many "Classic" Monikers..I get tired of all the Lionel et al postings over there....
Mookie wrote:And...I get frustrated 'cause I didn't take the "Evelyn Wood Speed Reading Class"....This forum moves at the speed of light.
Yes, it does. And I am on a dial-up connection. There are many threads that I just skip over entirely, or maybe just pull up once a day in order to see if it has gone off-topic to something that I might want to comment on.
My vote for a separate forum would be for news items. Just that alone would eliminate a lot of the clutter in this forum, even though news items are an important part of what is happening in the world of railroading today.
Ever notice that there are some people here who seldom, if ever, mention railroads in any of their posts?
I don't have an appetite for that--if I want to talk food, I go upstairs. If I want to talk weather, I e-mail Willy or watch the tube.
As for the legitimate questions, I provide my best answer (or comment--or jab!), then shut up until the next one comes along. I tried to help on the Gary Union Station thread, but it probably deserved to vanish a lot sooner than it has.
The grade crossing accidents, to answer your original question, have become kind of old. Everyone will agree that the railroad wasn't at fault, and from there on it's just a commentary on the drivers' stupidity--usually expounded on by people who have nothing better to do, or who don't understand the Darwin awards, etc., etc. I have begun to ignore these threads completely--I could say just as much as everyone else combined by going .
Thank you, Ms. Mookie, for the vote of confidence. I'll do my best to keep earning it.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
Ms Mook has some good points - and Railcar really hit the nail on the head. Most questions about a specific aspect of railroading have a specific answer - those threads rarely go beyond a few posts, then sink quickly out of sight. I've seen several threads I've started do that.
Unless they involve some hotbutton or something that otherwise can be added to by personal experience (or a difference in personal experience), in which case they may last a while and often morph into something entirely different.
If there is something to be said for the "struck by train" threads, it's that we can marvel at the number of ways people manage to put themselves in harms way. The possibilities seem to be endless.
So perhaps we can all resolve to refrain from "struck by train" and other trespassing threads for a while - just to see how things go.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
I have to agree with Mookie and CShaveRR. I'm more interested in railroad operations, MOW, and signal questions than I am in debating the economics of transportation, government financing, and the endless crossing accident posts. Yet, I'm glad we have people who can get down into the specifics of every area of railroads and transportation. Everyone has their own interests.
Of all the posts on the forum, the ones I like the most are usually from our railroaders, the people who actually walk the walk and talk the talk. It is interesting to hear them answer questions and give explanations. We have a few who occasionally write about their time on the railroads and do it in such a way as to be fascinating story-tellers. It would be interesting to me, and probably generate a lot of topics, if they had a place to just write about their work and their life on the rails. Come to think of it, they do...its right here, on the railroad forum.
G Mack
Another possibility would be to keep similar posts in just one thread. Thus, for example, instead of having several posts per week that talk about crossing accidents, one thread could suffice. Similarly for book reviews. And DM&E stuff. Etc.
That would sure make it easier to find things.
I think this is important enough of a topic to move it back to the top to make sure a lot of people have seen it. So to do so, I will ask a question that isn't really a stand alone topic, but I would like to see an answer...
If there are whistle posts to indicate where to whistle, how are quiet crossings handled? If you have a coal manifest, do you have a timetable to refer to (do coal trains have a timetable) or do you have indications written somewhere else?
And for that matter, what is written in a time table - besides times?
Mookie,
The last thing you will find in an employee's timetable is times. Operation by timetable and train orders disappeared years ago. Low dinsity lines are dispatched by track warrant or direct traffic control. Busy lines are dispatched by CTC.
Most timetables have morphed into local special instructions. Most include a list of Stations on each subdivision in station order usually showing sidings and how authority to occupy the main track is given. Many show speed limits and restrictions.
Specific example - I happen to have handy UP Portland Area #3, La Grande subdivision. It has a list of stations with East/West direction indicated. Shows type of operation, a mix of CTC 2 Main Track and CTC (single track). Shows speed table, Other Speed Restrictions (Through Sidings, Dual Control turnouts, Miscellaneous), Main Track Designations is a table of where the two main tracks are by mpilepost. RCL Operations tells where RCL Zones are. Business Tracks and Industrial Leads locates and identifies track other than main track, sidings, and yards. Tonnage Restrictions/TPOB limit speed as a function of Tons per Operative Brake, and has instructions about descending the mountain grades on both sides of the Blue Mountains. Train Makeup Restrictions goes on for a page and a half about rules designed to not overstress the track and equipment on the mountain. Miscellaneous Instructions is just that.
UP timetables also include track maps of the major yards. Very handy for all the new guys.
Mac
Wow - don't know about the modern day ones, but that is a lot of information to carry around in your (what do they carry now - grips, gym bags, backpacks?) Are the timetables the same size as many years ago?
And back to my original questions - is it a familiarity of territory that tells you when NOT to whistle?
SJ, employee timetables are supposed to be guarded with our lives, especially in this day of increased security. I got one for somebody once, and there has been nothing but trouble since.
But, nothing says I can't "read" a little bit to you--oh, yes--something about divulging information. Well, let me just describe it.
Each subdivision is shown in a table of its own. I know you're a little familiar with UP's Geneva Subdivision, since you rode it from Elburn to Chicago, and watched it roll in Rochelle and DeKalb.
So we have a page which lists all of the stations and control points, in order, including the code numbers ("Circ-7"s, for example), connected with each station, its milepost, and the distance between it and the adjacent station. It also shows which rules cover operation in a given territory (mostly CTC and ATC for this line) and how many main tracks there are. If there were sidings at any of the stations on the line, it would give their length in feet (the Geneva Sub has only one siding--in Nelson).
After this table, there are sections referring to special instructions for each subdivision:
1: Main track authority: basically states where CTC is in effect, and, where it isn't, the direction of the current of traffic on each track for multiple main lines.
2: Maximum speed table: Looks a lot more complicated than it is. In most places on this sub, trains can go 70. But the devil is in the details.
3: Other speed restrictions: more details in which the devil can hide.
4: Main track designations: There may be more tracks in a given area than there are main tracks; this just tells you how many tracks are main tracks.
5: Milepost equations: In the event that mileposts are missing due to line relocations, or the numbers start over at a junction, or things like that. On the Geneva Sub, there is nothing like this.
6: Remote control operations--tells the areas along the subdivision where remote-control operations take place, and instructions governing each of the locations.
7: Train defect detectors: gives the milepost location of every detector along the line, a symbol to indicate what kind of detector it is, and (if necessary) which tracks it covers.
8: Rules items:This is where you make note of changes, clarifications, exceptions, or whatever that affect the interpretation of the GCOR and special instructions for specific locations along the subdivision. And here, Mookie, is what you're looking for (I'll take the risk of quoting this):
Rule 5.8.2 (7): Between Chicago and Geneva whistle signal 5.8.2 (7) is not required at crossings equipped with operating automatic gate warning devices, except when meeting or passing the head end or rear end of a train in the vicinity of a grade crossing. Whistle must be sounded at Kilbourn Avenue, MP 5.3, and 25th Avenue, MP 11.7.
9: FRA excepted tracks (lists the tracks which are below standards of any FRA classification).
10: Business tracks: lists industrial spurs at intermediate stations along the line.
11: Industrial leads: usually the remnants of what used to be other subdivisions branching off from the line in question. It then goes through speed limits, equipment restrictions, etc., for each of these.
12: Tonnage restrictions: the maximum allowable weight on the line.
13: Train make-up restrictons. Not sure what's covered here, since most lines in our area have no restrictions.
14: Miscellaneous instructions: if there's anything else you should know, and it isn't covered by any precise rule, they try to catch it here.
15: Additional instructions: ...or here.
Each subdivision shows all 15 of these sections, even if there's nothing to write under some of them.
So, if you want to see the areas in which you don't have to sound the whistle, always look in section 8 for a given subdivision. Notice that it says that sounding the horn is "not required"--not that it's prohibited. Nobody is ever going to prohibit the sounding of the horn in case of an actual or perceived emergency.
The hierarchy here is the rule book above all, then the system special instructions (which refine the GCOR according to UP practices), then System general orders that update the special instructions or rules, then the timetable, then general orders governing the subdivision, then all of the subdivision special instructions in each of the 15 sections.
Timetables aren't at all like they used to be. Mine is a 40-page booklet designed to be held in a three-ring binder, along with my system special instructions, and (in my case) pockets for holding subdivision general orders.
A lot of folks carry grips or duffel bags--I have a somewhat unique situation, so I carry a backpack (it's not safe for employees who could get it snagged on moving equipment). It carries this binder, my rulebook (different-sized binder), hazmat books, my lunch, tools, binoculars, a flashlight, etc. It weighs approximately 30 pounds. Thank Goodness I have a strong back!
Thank you BC! That is a lot of information in something that isn't too big.
I will print this off and take it home to study it as per usual. Also need some time to decide my next big question!
SJ
jimrice4449 wrote:Am I the only one to find this morbid facination w/ RRXing/trepasser fatalities annoying?
Have fun with your trains
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