American Ruins: Gary's Once and Future Terminal.

[wallyworld]

This is a photograph of the remains of Gary Indiana's NYC terminal. I wonder if any of you know whether this is still standing. It is basically an open ruin that was abandoned about 50 years ago. Despite being listed as a historically significant station, it is slowly weathering away in the elements. My understanding is that proposals have come and gone for restoration. I discovered this station on the Lost Indiana website some time ago, and have not been able to stave off my curiousity as to it's fate.  

 

[n012944]

It was still there as of mid October 2006.

 

Bert

[gabe]

It looks a lot better kept than Gary.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

I remember catching the B&O "Diplomat" (not the original Washington-St. Louis train) at Gary for a short hop to Chicago Grand Central in 1969 and the station was already deteriorating at that time.  It's in a poor location sandwiched between the Indiana Toll Road and the US Steel Gary Works so it's shielded from the view of just everybody except those passing through on the Toll Road.

[Modelcar]

 

....It really seems ashame to see America's structures such as pictured in above post rotting away....The sad fact time has passed it by for it's usefullness at it's location.

I'd wager if it's location was somewhere else it might have a chance of revival...Somewhere, where light rail is being redone, and or used as new transportation center...Believe location is critical to have "these types of buildings" revitilized and used in current society.  It is sad to see them fall into complete ruin.

[gabe]

Don't get me wrong, you are right about "America's ruins."  But, I think this sadness is far overshadowed by the sadness that is Gary.  I think there should be a study done as to how Gary went under and make it a prerequisite for every mayor to watch prior to taking office.

Gabe

[Randy Stahl]

Don't get me wrong, you are right about "America's ruins."  But, I think this sadness is far overshadowed by the sadness that is Gary.  I think there should be a study done as to how Gary went under and make it a prerequisite for every mayor to watch prior to taking office.

Gabe

Add Cairo Illinios to that list .

[wallyworld]

 I remember that in the 1970's, there was a great deal of attention made on the midwest "rust belt" as manufacturing particularly the steel industries went under. I remember then and in the following years much was made of the "high tech" revolution revitalizing what were essentially middle class enclaves that were in decline. What's interesting is a new branch of research which if someone told me about it fourty years ago, I would have said was ridiculous. Industrial Archeology is a growing field. I don't pretend to have any profound insights into this but it's also sad to note the appearance of new ghosts towns out in Nebraska and the Dakotas due to the loss of farming..there was actually a serious proposal to turn over a great deal of this area to be used as a buffalo preserve, in effect, coming full circle. I went to Scranton PA to visit Steamtown and was shocked at the condition of the downtown. Tall buildings without windows, stores boarded up...it was surrealistic. I kept thinking I was dreaming....about a year ago I made a business trip to Detroit and parts of the city looked like Hiroshima...I kept asking myself, what happened here? The shiny Ford towers rose above empty streets devoid of houses with streetlamps and sidewalks waiting for traffic long since evaporated.  

[CShaveRR]

Actually, that is a Union Station, and at one time served both NYC and B&O in Gary.  It was built of poured concrete, which may be part of the reason it appears to be so sound.  Drive by it on the toll road, and you see only the upper (track-level) half, which really appears to be bombed out.

There was an article in the Chicago Tribune a few years back about resurrecting the station to serve as a gateway for something or other (trail access?) as well as a passenger station.  I guess nothing came of that idea.

I concur with those folks who say that Gary is a sad-looking city now, in spite of some attempts to revitalize the downtown. (Another one whose downtown looks almost like a war zone is Benton Harbor, Michigan.  And the old Michigan Central building in Detroit is tall enough to stand out in its location--it speaks volumes, unfortunately.)

[wallyworld]

Michigan Central looks much like the Buffalo Terminal....David Plowden, who has taken some of my favorite railroad photographs, has a book out on the theme of buildings in the heartland reverting to their natural state. It's called a Handful of Dust. The photo below is the Michigan Central ruin. Using my imagination, I could see it as a once bustling, noisy place full of activity.

http://davidplowden.com/

[Erie Lackawanna]

While there are a couple neglected buildings in downtown Scranton, you really cannot compare that to Gary and Detroit, which are for all intents gone in many places.  Scranton's just an old time city trying to hold on and doing its best.

[Modelcar]

 

....It's scary.....There are too many examples of all we're talking about here in this thread across this great country of ours.  I am not trying to be political in any way when I say:  What can we start to do to reverse this situation....I am saying we have spent too much money around the world to 3rd world countries, and many other locations...I wish somehow, our elected officials could originate an ongoing discussion of America's problems of rotting cities...Not the blame game but a straight forward looking discussion of how we might revitlize some of the energy needed to redirect our thoughts and doings.....Surely we can do better.  We're going to have to.

[Anonymous]

What can we start to do to reverse this situation...

 

Put people back to work. In jobs that pay more than a walmart greeter.

 

Instead of paying money to lower the cost of importing manufactured goods (deepening harbors , raising bridges, and making tunnels doublestack friendly, etc) we should be passing import tariffs that make local manufacturing look attractive by comparison.

As the greatest consumer economy on the planet, we can make out just servicing our own demand.

The hitch being that said tariffs  would honk off a number of foreign countries that would reciprocate, and pass tariffs targeting the few big remaining american made exports. Which really boils down to large medical instruments,  and a handful of other items. Which are big money for the few companies producing them

SO there are some decisions to be made. For instance would GE be happy building refrigerators in America once again, selling to  American consumers, and give up on the idea of selling $6 milliion dollar MRI machines abroad?

 Personally, I think a greater common good is served in so doing.  Put a chicken back in every pot, instead of a turkey only in the pantry of GE stockholders

[n012944]

What can we start to do to reverse this situation...

 

Put people back to work. In jobs that pay more than a walmart greeter.

Wouldn't the additional jobs that the DM&E expansion would create fall under your plan?

 

Bert

[Modelcar]

 

.....That's good.....The chicken and turkey part....!  Like that.

[Anonymous]

Wouldn't the additional jobs that the DM&E expansion would create fall under your plan?

 

Bert

 

Just how many jobs are GUARANTEED by the DME expansion ?  Last I checked it was all being attributed to "trickle down effect?

 

What, 2 dozen miners for an extra shift and 30 more T&E guys to haul the coal?  50(+/-)  jobs? 

Any assumption that line side industry will immediately start to thrive, is just that. An assumption 

 

[Erie Lackawanna]

What can we start to do to reverse this situation...

 

Put people back to work. In jobs that pay more than a walmart greeter.

 

Instead of paying money to lower the cost of importing manufactured goods (deepening harbors , raising bridges, and making tunnels doublestack friendly, etc) we should be passing import tariffs that make local manufacturing look attractive by comparison.

As the greatest consumer economy on the planet, we can make out just servicing our own demand.

The hitch being that said tariffs  would honk off a number of foreign countries that would reciprocate, and pass tariffs targeting the few big remaining american made exports. Which really boils down to large medical instruments,  and a handful of other items. Which are big money for the few companies producing them

SO there are some decisions to be made. For instance would GE be happy building refrigerators in America once again, selling to  American consumers, and give up on the idea of selling $6 milliion dollar MRI machines abroad?

 Personally, I think a greater common good is served in so doing.  Put a chicken back in every pot, instead of a turkey only in the pantry of GE stockholders

As much as I have some issues with Henry Ford and his positions on matters, he was a genius, as far as I'm concerned in his understanding of economics.  He paid his employees enough money so that they could buy his cars, putting more money back in his pocket.

Why do so few American companies try this method any more?

[IRONROOSTER]

What can we start to do to reverse this situation...

 

Put people back to work. In jobs that pay more than a walmart greeter.

 

As much as I have some issues with Henry Ford and his positions on matters, he was a genius, as far as I'm concerned in his understanding of economics.  He paid his employees enough money so that they could buy his cars, putting more money back in his pocket.

Why do so few American companies try this method any more?

Short sighted greed. Long range planning in Corporate America has become the year end report.

Paul 

[Brooklyn Trolley Dodger]

  Have seen the Gary IN terminal from Amtrak before (Or was it South Shore?).

Seems to be quite a ways from the tracks themselves...

Now what about the old GT station in South Bend? South Bends Amshack is a real shame..

[Anonymous]

As much as I have some issues with Henry Ford and his positions on matters, he was a genius, as far as I'm concerned in his understanding of economics.  He paid his employees enough money so that they could buy his cars, putting more money back in his pocket.

Why do so few American companies try this method any more?

Interesting that you would bring up that example, because the very same one occured to me as I was making the original post.

 Tariffs have been (and still are) used against us, so it plexes me why we pretend to be so noble as to not use them.

There are only a handful of manufactured items that the US is still THE source for, and while they are big ticket items, the benefit of the sale goes to a relative minority.

 

Funny how someone earning a living soley off clipping coupons on their 50,000 shares of General Electric , can call american workers "lazy". 

 

 

 

[csxengineer98]

What can we start to do to reverse this situation...

 

Put people back to work. In jobs that pay more than a walmart greeter.

 

As much as I have some issues with Henry Ford and his positions on matters, he was a genius, as far as I'm concerned in his understanding of economics.  He paid his employees enough money so that they could buy his cars, putting more money back in his pocket.

Why do so few American companies try this method any more?

Short sighted greed. Long range planning in Corporate America has become the year end report.

Paul 

ironrooster, you just about hit the spike on the head with the that.. economics 101 now says that try and make as much profit as you can by selling one unit of product for as much as you can get for it with as little expence at manufactoring it as possable... the old corp. model of making profit by selling product my volume for a cheeper retal price has gone by the way of the steam locomotive for the most part in the corp world....

csx engineer 

[Murphy Siding]

Wouldn't the additional jobs that the DM&E expansion would create fall under your plan?

 

Bert

 

Just how many jobs are GUARANTEED by the DME expansion ?  Last I checked it was all being attributed to "trickle down effect?

 

What, 2 dozen miners for an extra shift and 30 more T&E guys to haul the coal?  50(+/-)  jobs? 

Any assumption that line side industry will immediately start to thrive, is just that. An assumption 

 

     To be honest, DM&E won't add any jobs.  It will only transfer jobs from one tranportation company to another.  The coal or grain that moves now on UP, BNSF, or truck, will still move, even if there was no DM&E.

[Poppa_Zit]

What can we start to do to reverse this situation...

Put people back to work. In jobs that pay more than a walmart greeter.

Here we go again off the tracks (mandatory railroad reference to remain somewhat on topic).

OK, I'll play Devil's Advocate...

Fine. Better pay, then.

But in return, how about providing employers with potential employees who are qualified to do more than simple, basic manual labor? Employees who can speak English? That know how to do something as simple as count money accurately and make change? Or put the right order in the bag every time at the drive-up window at fast food joints? The ability to type into a business-specific software program?

Employees at the very least have to generate their salary for their employer so he can pay them. At the very least. That's how business works. Today, the U.S. does not have a very good record of this. Why should workers be the only ones "getting more?"

While workers may not always be offered the best salaries and benefits, they don't always offer a good package to the employer, either.   

 

[wallyworld]

While there are a couple neglected buildings in downtown Scranton, you really cannot compare that to Gary and Detroit, which are for all intents gone in many places.  Scranton's just an old time city trying to hold on and doing its best.

I apologize if I gave the wrong impression..I really liked Scranton and enjoyed my visit there..some great folks..that's why it bothered me..it was just odd to look up at twenty story building and then as I walked toward it..to realize it was pretty much a shell...I went over to Scranton Hobby...stayed at the old Lackwanna Station which has to have one of the most impressive interiors of any station I have ever entered...I hope Scranton gets some of it's lifeblood back...I just came away feeling..is'nt that a d_____n shame...? 

[Datafever]

As much as I have some issues with Henry Ford and his positions on matters, he was a genius, as far as I'm concerned in his understanding of economics.  He paid his employees enough money so that they could buy his cars, putting more money back in his pocket.

Why do so few American companies try this method any more?

It's easy to do when you are the only one making cars.  If you have competition, and you have to sell your product for 20% more because you pay your employees more, then you can bet that those employees will gladly take their generous salaries and buy your competitor's product.

[Anonymous]

It's easy to do when you are the only one making cars.  If you have competition, and you have to sell your product for 20% more because you pay your employees more, then you can bet that those employees will gladly take their generous salaries and buy your competitor's product.

 

Here's an idea, let's level the playing field with tariffs on goods manufactured offshore , and use the proceeds to revitalize Amtrak?

[Datafever]

Here's an idea, let's level the playing field with tariffs on goods manufactured offshore , and use the proceeds to revitalize Amtrak?

Heh.  It really doesn't take tariffs.  What will tariffs accomplish, except to raise the prices of imports?  If people are serious about it, they can always "buy American" regardless of any price/quality differential that may exist.  In fact, if all union members always bought American whenever they had the choice to do so, the American economy would be quite revitalized, with a resulting increase in wages to boot.

[Modelcar]

 

....Finding the products you care to buy in America {made in USA}, might be a problem.  Many are history.

[Anonymous]

Here's an idea, let's level the playing field with tariffs on goods manufactured offshore , and use the proceeds to revitalize Amtrak?

 What will tariffs accomplish, except to raise the prices of imports? 

 

Tariffs will place the incentive upon corporations to repatriate production and assembly jobs 

 hint: GE didn't move their refrigerator plant to mexico because they were looking for a workforce  that spoke english.

 Right now many firms that would  have kept their means of production in the USA, couldn't and expect to remain competitive with outfits that don't care if their workforce lives in a sewer.

 Tariffs  (if placed correctly) would work wonders towards bringing jobs  back to these shores.

 

Sometimes a little protectionism is a good thing, and IMO is warranted in this instance. 

[Murphy Siding]

 it's also sad to note the appearance of new ghosts towns out in Nebraska and the Dakotas.  

     Most new or "future" ghost towns in South Dakota. northwest Iowa, and southwest Minnesota have something else in common, besides the loss of farms and farmers.  Most used to have a railroad running through the middle of town.