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Critics call for trains to be rerouted from urban areas

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Posted by solzrules on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 3:47 PM

Come on now, you are hurting my one feeling!  It is a feeling that is only reserved for the trains forum.  It is very fragile.  I am going to go sit in the corner and cry for awhile .......Sad [:(]

This country has a choice to make.  Either we are going to protect our way of life (this means that we don't train railroaders to fight terrorism and instead train them to be railroaders) or we are going to accept terrorism as a way of life.  If the latter is the case then all of us will have to be trained to deal with terrorism.  And all of us will be targets.  Personally, I'd rather let the US Marines deal with the matter with two free hands and the biggest guns we can make. 

 dsktc wrote:

Then both of you are imbeciles.

Dave 

 

 solzrules wrote:
 dsktc wrote:

Great idea.  We could invade a Middle Eastern country.

But we've already done that.

Dave 

 

 solzrules wrote:

Here's a novel idea, stop me if you've heard it, but let's say we kill the pricks before they have the chance to blow up a cyanide tank car or truck. 

Now I realize this may involve some proactive decisions, but I am confident that if we kill the terrorists before they kill us we won't have to worry about any of this.  We could hold a Barbra Streisand concert in the middle of Houston with a million tanker cars all around have the greatest day of our lives! 

Just a thought from yours truly. 

I agree with FM.  Maybe if we invaded a few more and actually conducted the invasion as a war and not a police action we wouldn't need to worry about things like this. 

Perhaps Babs could lead the charge in a stretched, pimped-out tank. 

Paris could bring up the rear and scare anyone who may think of a sneak attack.

You think this is bad? Just wait until inflation kicks in.....
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 12:35 PM

Or Jakarta, Cairo, Islamabad...

Dave 

 

 carnej1 wrote:

QUOTE: "Once the funding source is nuked, those of the Satanic mindset will have nothing but rocks to throw, and that'd be the end of that."- So futuremodal is advocating nuking the Saudis? Methinks that plan won't go over too well in Houston and Dallas (let alone DC)......................................

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Posted by carnej1 on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 11:46 AM

QUOTE: "Once the funding source is nuked, those of the Satanic mindset will have nothing but rocks to throw, and that'd be the end of that."- So futuremodal is advocating nuking the Saudis? Methinks that plan won't go over too well in Houston and Dallas (let alone DC)......................................

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 9:43 AM
 spokyone wrote:

If a city wants to relocate tracks, that city should pay at least 90% of the cost. No federal or state grants allowed. Then let the voters decide.

I agree 100%.
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 9:23 AM

Then both of you are imbeciles.

Dave 

 

 solzrules wrote:
 dsktc wrote:

Great idea.  We could invade a Middle Eastern country.

But we've already done that.

Dave 

 

 solzrules wrote:

Here's a novel idea, stop me if you've heard it, but let's say we kill the pricks before they have the chance to blow up a cyanide tank car or truck. 

Now I realize this may involve some proactive decisions, but I am confident that if we kill the terrorists before they kill us we won't have to worry about any of this.  We could hold a Barbra Streisand concert in the middle of Houston with a million tanker cars all around have the greatest day of our lives! 

Just a thought from yours truly. 

I agree with FM.  Maybe if we invaded a few more and actually conducted the invasion as a war and not a police action we wouldn't need to worry about things like this. 

Perhaps Babs could lead the charge in a stretched, pimped-out tank. 

Paris could bring up the rear and scare anyone who may think of a sneak attack.

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Posted by CANADIANPACIFIC2816 on Wednesday, January 17, 2007 7:11 AM
 solzrules wrote:

Here's a novel idea, stop me if you've heard it, but let's say we kill the pricks before they have the chance to blow up a cyanide tank car or truck. 

Now I realize this may involve some proactive decisions, but I am confident that if we kill the terrorists before they kill us we won't have to worry about any of this.  We could hold a Barbra Streisand concert in the middle of Houston with a million tanker cars all around have the greatest day of our lives! 

Just a thought from yours truly. 

Barb's last name is actually Strei-Censored [censored].

CANADIANPACIFIC2816

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Posted by jimrice4449 on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 11:54 PM
This is a typical media Chicken Little who probably has the Freedom of the Press clause of the first amendment tatooed on the inside of his eyelid but is totally ignorant of the rest of the Constitution, like that part of Article 1, Section 8 delegating the regulation of interstate commerce to the Congress (which was the basis of the DC Nimby law being thrown out, as mentioned above)
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Posted by solzrules on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 10:13 PM
 dsktc wrote:

Great idea.  We could invade a Middle Eastern country.

But we've already done that.

Dave 

 

 solzrules wrote:

Here's a novel idea, stop me if you've heard it, but let's say we kill the pricks before they have the chance to blow up a cyanide tank car or truck. 

Now I realize this may involve some proactive decisions, but I am confident that if we kill the terrorists before they kill us we won't have to worry about any of this.  We could hold a Barbra Streisand concert in the middle of Houston with a million tanker cars all around have the greatest day of our lives! 

Just a thought from yours truly. 

I agree with FM.  Maybe if we invaded a few more and actually conducted the invasion as a war and not a police action we wouldn't need to worry about things like this. 

Perhaps Babs could lead the charge in a stretched, pimped-out tank. 

Paris could bring up the rear and scare anyone who may think of a sneak attack.

You think this is bad? Just wait until inflation kicks in.....
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Posted by solzrules on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 10:10 PM
 KCSfan wrote:
 solzrules wrote:

Here's a novel idea, stop me if you've heard it, but let's say we kill the pricks before they have the chance to blow up a cyanide tank car or truck. 

Now I realize this may involve some proactive decisions, but I am confident that if we kill the terrorists before they kill us we won't have to worry about any of this.  We could hold a Barbra Streisand concert in the middle of Houston with a million tanker cars all around have the greatest day of our lives! 

Just a thought from yours truly. 

Hi Sol,

I am still laughing. I share your logic, truly admire your ability to cut through the BS, and greatly appreciate your humor. Keep it up Big Guy.

Mark

Thanks a bunch Mark.  It's good to know that I am not the only one everyone thinks is nuts.....Big Smile [:D]

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Posted by wallyworld on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 9:38 AM
Instead of rerouting railroad trains, trucks or advocating extermination, none of which are realistic, to say the least, we all have to exercise a prudent awareness of unusual behaviors, even if this means some mistaken but well intentioned mistakes will occur. There will always be alarmists with a childishly simple answer that flys in the face of logic. We would have to have such a huge security force to police random acts that if it were true, you might as well try to eliminate 90% of all automobile accidents, or thefts...it's absurd. Why don't we just vacate the urban areas and avoid the problem altogether?

Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has.

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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, January 16, 2007 4:09 AM
 solzrules wrote:

Here's a novel idea, stop me if you've heard it, but let's say we kill the pricks before they have the chance to blow up a cyanide tank car or truck. 

Now I realize this may involve some proactive decisions, but I am confident that if we kill the terrorists before they kill us we won't have to worry about any of this.  We could hold a Barbra Streisand concert in the middle of Houston with a million tanker cars all around have the greatest day of our lives! 

Just a thought from yours truly. 

Hi Sol,

I am still laughing. I share your logic, truly admire your ability to cut through the BS, and greatly appreciate your humor. Keep it up Big Guy.

Mark

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 15, 2007 11:17 PM
The prolem here is where do you run the trains? I'm sure the rural folks don't want dangerous gases and explosives moving through their area either. Plus the enviromentalists won't be too happy about it especially if to build the new rights of way means cutting through forests or wetlands or what have you. It's a lose lose proposition no matter which way you cut it. 
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Posted by RudyRockvilleMD on Monday, January 15, 2007 8:45 PM

Carl Prine is wrong. If I recall correctly a Federal Appeals Court judge overturned an earlier District Court judge's ban on CSX trains running through Washington, DC with hazmat materials. 

The rest of the country recently got a taste of what a ban on CSX freight trains running through Washington, DC would be like, even trains that don't carry hazardous materials. When the bridge over the Anacostia River was closed for repairs CSX was forced to reroute many of its trains from the via circuitous routes over its own lines as far west as Cincinnati while a few trains detoured over the NS H Line (formerly the Norfolk & Western Shenandoah Division) and the NS B Line, Manassas - Riverton Jct., VA. These detors were expensive and time consuming  so just think what would happen if CSX had to permanently reroute all of its freight trains with hazardous material around Washington, DC.

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 15, 2007 8:18 PM
 dsktc wrote:

Great idea.  We could invade a Middle Eastern country.

But we've already done that.

Dave 

 solzrules wrote:

Here's a novel idea, stop me if you've heard it, but let's say we kill the pricks before they have the chance to blow up a cyanide tank car or truck. 

Now I realize this may involve some proactive decisions, but I am confident that if we kill the terrorists before they kill us we won't have to worry about any of this.  We could hold a Barbra Streisand concert in the middle of Houston with a million tanker cars all around have the greatest day of our lives! 

Just a thought from yours truly. 

One mideast country isn't enough.  We'll need to dispatch a few more before we see real results regarding terrorism.  Once the funding source is nuked, those of the Satanic mindset will have nothing but rocks to throw, and that'd be the end of that.

BTW - Any chance we could get Rosie O'Donnell to sing a duet with Babs for the *climantic ending*?Mischief [:-,]

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 15, 2007 7:28 PM

Great idea.  We could invade a Middle Eastern country.

But we've already done that.

Dave 

 

 solzrules wrote:

Here's a novel idea, stop me if you've heard it, but let's say we kill the pricks before they have the chance to blow up a cyanide tank car or truck. 

Now I realize this may involve some proactive decisions, but I am confident that if we kill the terrorists before they kill us we won't have to worry about any of this.  We could hold a Barbra Streisand concert in the middle of Houston with a million tanker cars all around have the greatest day of our lives! 

Just a thought from yours truly. 

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 15, 2007 6:47 PM
 Datafever wrote:

Perhaps, but I dare say that it would be more difficult to determine in advance exactly what route a truck was going to take.  And I would think that getting access to a truck to plant explosives would be more difficult than it would be to gain access to a train.

 

Good point, and by the same token it's easier for the alarmists to finger point against a RR with a fixed plant .

 

My local community recently passed a "no thru truck" ordianance, allowing local deliveries inside the city limits only.

I think that is aimed more towards noise and congestion than it is a matter of safety, but it still parallels the spirit of the 'all non essential freight must detour around' idea, so I don't think the trucks are being ignored completely in this matter. 

 

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, January 15, 2007 6:15 PM
 Datafever wrote:
 Murphy Siding wrote:
 Datafever wrote:

There are significant differences between trucks and railroads.  If you are going to worry about terrorists driving a truck into a metropolitan area and then exploding it, well, the terrorists would have to be able to procure the hazmat first.  If a train is trundling through a metropolitan area, the bad guys only have to figure out how to cause extreme damage - they don't need to procure the hazmat because it is already where they want it. 

     I'd have to say this same arguement would hold true for hazmat material in a truck too.  Wouldn't it? 

Perhaps, but I dare say that it would be more difficult to determine in advance exactly what route a truck was going to take.  And I would think that getting access to a truck to plant explosives would be more difficult than it would be to gain access to a train.

But your point is well taken anyway. 

 

Trucks can be realitively easily hijacked and stolen at any truck stop and most any commodity that is transported will eventually pass through any truck stop.  Hazmat placarding, while giving emergency personnel an idea of what they are facing, also give terrorist an insight of what to hijack without having to have any inside information.

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The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist
Posted by solzrules on Monday, January 15, 2007 6:07 PM

Here's a novel idea, stop me if you've heard it, but let's say we kill the pricks before they have the chance to blow up a cyanide tank car or truck. 

Now I realize this may involve some proactive decisions, but I am confident that if we kill the terrorists before they kill us we won't have to worry about any of this.  We could hold a Barbra Streisand concert in the middle of Houston with a million tanker cars all around have the greatest day of our lives! 

Just a thought from yours truly. 

You think this is bad? Just wait until inflation kicks in.....
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Posted by cprted on Monday, January 15, 2007 4:08 PM
Anyone else think this guy has seen too many episodes of 24?
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Posted by Murphy Siding on Monday, January 15, 2007 4:06 PM
 n012944 wrote:
 Datafever wrote:
 Murphy Siding wrote:
 Datafever wrote:

There are significant differences between trucks and railroads.  If you are going to worry about terrorists driving a truck into a metropolitan area and then exploding it, well, the terrorists would have to be able to procure the hazmat first.  If a train is trundling through a metropolitan area, the bad guys only have to figure out how to cause extreme damage - they don't need to procure the hazmat because it is already where they want it. 

     I'd have to say this same arguement would hold true for hazmat material in a truck too.  Wouldn't it? 

Perhaps, but I dare say that it would be more difficult to determine in advance exactly what route a truck was going to take.  And I would think that getting access to a truck to plant explosives would be more difficult than it would be to gain access to a train. 

Seems pretty easy to me.  All the terriorists would have to do would sit outside a chemical factory that is shipping the hazmat that they want to use.  As the trucks leave they have someone with a fake police car pull over the truck and make the driver get out. Once the truck is pulled over it is very easy for a terrorist to take control and take the truck to a target of choice.

Bert

Or your local truckstop.  If a guy is going to be paranoid, he should at least do a thorough job of it.

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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Posted by n012944 on Monday, January 15, 2007 3:48 PM
 Datafever wrote:
 Murphy Siding wrote:
 Datafever wrote:

There are significant differences between trucks and railroads.  If you are going to worry about terrorists driving a truck into a metropolitan area and then exploding it, well, the terrorists would have to be able to procure the hazmat first.  If a train is trundling through a metropolitan area, the bad guys only have to figure out how to cause extreme damage - they don't need to procure the hazmat because it is already where they want it. 

     I'd have to say this same arguement would hold true for hazmat material in a truck too.  Wouldn't it? 

Perhaps, but I dare say that it would be more difficult to determine in advance exactly what route a truck was going to take.  And I would think that getting access to a truck to plant explosives would be more difficult than it would be to gain access to a train. 

Seems pretty easy to me.  All the terriorists would have to do would sit outside a chemical factory that is shipping the hazmat that they want to use.  As the trucks leave they have someone with a fake police car pull over the truck and make the driver get out. Once the truck is pulled over it is very easy for a terrorist to take control and take the truck to a target of choice.

 

Bert

 

 

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Posted by Poppa_Zit on Monday, January 15, 2007 3:34 PM
 Murphy Siding wrote:
 Datafever wrote:

There are significant differences between trucks and railroads.  If you are going to worry about terrorists driving a truck into a metropolitan area and then exploding it, well, the terrorists would have to be able to procure the hazmat first.  If a train is trundling through a metropolitan area, the bad guys only have to figure out how to cause extreme damage - they don't need to procure the hazmat because it is already where they want it. 

     I'd have to say this same arguement would hold true for hazmat material in a truck too.  Wouldn't it? 

The G is fully aware of such "opportunities." The U.S. Open golf tournament was held in Chicago in 2003, at Olympia Fields country club. Along the western edge of the course runs the former IC mainline (density 5 -- now CN, also used by NS, Amtrak and Metra electric trains) on a high fill. The golf course used to have its own train station, and there is a Metra station within 200 yards of the clubhouse, which has a 15-acre footprint. There were in excess of 60,000 people a day attending that golf tournament.

I am told over 60 percent of the hazmat that moves through Chicago via rail passes that location. Any hazardous materials shipments on that line that week were run at night, when the area was empty of spectators. And during the day, the trees on the fill and adjacent to the tracks were filled with federal agents wearing full camo and carrying automatic weapons. The G wanted to make sure that some sicko didn't use this international event as a stage to "make a statement."

Of course, once the event was over, the security level in the area was lowered back to normal levels. 

  

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Posted by rrnut282 on Monday, January 15, 2007 3:34 PM

 Poppa_Zit wrote:
This writer's last "save-the-world-from-itself" effort was to outlaw selling gasoline within 50 miles of a populated area. Big Smile [:D] 

Sounds like he's a Greenpeace recruit in the making.Black Eye [B)]

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Posted by rrnut282 on Monday, January 15, 2007 3:31 PM
 bobwilcox wrote:
 rrnut282 wrote:

How much do you want to bet that "they" didn't think about that. 

 

Many cities have dedicated truck routes to keep trucks in defined corridors away from residential neighborhoods and downtown.  Now someone thinks that they can apply the same to railroads.  I'm with Tree68, it's WAY TOO EASY do drive a truckload right to the target.  Remember, it was only a small to medium sized straight truck parked on the street that brought down the building in Oklahoma City.

Think about trucks delivering gasoline.  Gasoline is about as hazordous as it gets and their is a gas station near you. 

Isn't that my point?  Why worry about RR's which require specific knowledge to operate and/or bypass the fail-safes built into the system when it's much easier to (learn how to )drive a truck.  By the way, the nearest gas station is about 1.7 miles away.  It would have to be a big boom to break out the windows of my house.  One year from now, I'll have a 100M gallon/year ethanol plant .25 miles away on the other side of the mainline.  What, me worry?Shock [:O]

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Posted by Datafever on Monday, January 15, 2007 3:20 PM
 Murphy Siding wrote:
 Datafever wrote:

There are significant differences between trucks and railroads.  If you are going to worry about terrorists driving a truck into a metropolitan area and then exploding it, well, the terrorists would have to be able to procure the hazmat first.  If a train is trundling through a metropolitan area, the bad guys only have to figure out how to cause extreme damage - they don't need to procure the hazmat because it is already where they want it. 

     I'd have to say this same arguement would hold true for hazmat material in a truck too.  Wouldn't it? 

Perhaps, but I dare say that it would be more difficult to determine in advance exactly what route a truck was going to take.  And I would think that getting access to a truck to plant explosives would be more difficult than it would be to gain access to a train.

But your point is well taken anyway. 

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Monday, January 15, 2007 3:17 PM
 Datafever wrote:

There are significant differences between trucks and railroads.  If you are going to worry about terrorists driving a truck into a metropolitan area and then exploding it, well, the terrorists would have to be able to procure the hazmat first.  If a train is trundling through a metropolitan area, the bad guys only have to figure out how to cause extreme damage - they don't need to procure the hazmat because it is already where they want it. 

     I'd have to say this same arguement would hold true for hazmat material in a truck too.  Wouldn't it? 

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Posted by Poppa_Zit on Monday, January 15, 2007 3:11 PM
This writer's last "save-the-world-from-itself" effort was to outlaw selling gasoline within 50 miles of a populated area. Big Smile [:D] 
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They are not entitled, however, to their own facts." No we can't. Charter Member J-CASS (Jaded Cynical Ascerbic Sarcastic Skeptics) Notary Sojac & Retired Foo Fighter "Where there's foo, there's fire."
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 15, 2007 2:41 PM
 futuremodal wrote:

If only AG's fantasy about the predecessors to those aforementioned railroads having also paid at least 90% of their construction costs, then at least he'd have a leg to stand on with his DM&E bashing.

AG, you're legless.

 

Legless?  I think you've become totally detached.

 

If the other poster wants to play "let them pay as they go", in angst against  the nimbys then lets level the playing field completely, and treat RR's the same way. One good turn deserrves the other.

 

As for your speculation that i was trying to favor the other railroads you list ,FM you are  baseless as well as toothless . I was just making an "anti-anti-nimby" rant, nothing more

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Posted by Datafever on Monday, January 15, 2007 2:12 PM

There are significant differences between trucks and railroads.  If you are going to worry about terrorists driving a truck into a metropolitan area and then exploding it, well, the terrorists would have to be able to procure the hazmat first.  If a train is trundling through a metropolitan area, the bad guys only have to figure out how to cause extreme damage - they don't need to procure the hazmat because it is already where they want it.

And while gasoline may cause quite an explosion, there is little cause for concern beyond the immediate blast area.  For many chemicals, the problem is not the explosiveness, but the airborne pollution. 

"I'm sittin' in a railway station, Got a ticket for my destination..."
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Posted by bobwilcox on Monday, January 15, 2007 2:04 PM
 rrnut282 wrote:

How much do you want to bet that "they" didn't think about that. 

 

Many cities have dedicated truck routes to keep trucks in defined corridors away from residential neighborhoods and downtown.  Now someone thinks that they can apply the same to railroads.  I'm with Tree68, it's WAY TOO EASY do drive a truckload right to the target.  Remember, it was only a small to medium sized straight truck parked on the street that brought down the building in Oklahoma City.

Think about trucks delivering gasoline.  Gasoline is about as hazordous as it gets and their is a gas station near you. 

Bob

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