Datafever wrote:As I listen to all of the problems that people have encountered with Amtrak's dining service, I wonder if it would make sense to dispose of the attendants and just go with vending machines.
And for that suggestion, you are sentenced to 2 1/2 days locked in a room with vending machines to provide your only source of food and drink. If you complain, the microwave will be out of order and the change machine will be empty.
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics
jeaton wrote: Datafever wrote:As I listen to all of the problems that people have encountered with Amtrak's dining service, I wonder if it would make sense to dispose of the attendants and just go with vending machines.And for that suggestion, you are sentenced to 2 1/2 days locked in a room with vending machines to provide your only source of food and drink. If you complain, the microwave will be out of order and the change machine will be empty.
In my younger days...
Datafever"As I listen to all of the problems that people have encountered with Amtrak's dining service, I wonder if it would make sense to dispose of the attendants and just go with vending machines.
As I listen to all of the problems that people have encountered with Amtrak's dining service, I wonder if it would make sense to dispose of the attendants and just go with vending machines.
Essentially, that is what Amtrak has already created -- vending machines with human operators. Something of a uniquely Amtrak solution -- the lowest service for the highest cost.
It's the passenger version of the captive shipper. The customers aren't going anywhere -- we don't need to break our backs serving them.
The employees are union, there is little incentive for them in tips, even as they are fairly ruthless in demanding them. There is low accountability for customer satisfaction. I've done a few restaurant business plans in my day and I can say with some certainty, Amtrak has it backwards. The cost of food -- and a perceived need to cut corners on food -- is not the major part of the costs for any kind of food service operation, let alone on a train. The idea that cutting corners will save money is exactly wrong -- they will sell less food, lose more money, and stutter along for another while, wondering why they keep losing money.And there will be no more corners to cut, everything will be round --- as in big fat red zeroes.
A private operator, given the wonderful uniqueness of the facilities and the circumstances, would turn handstands to be able to turn those facilities and circumstances into something that would be, frankly, tons of fun for passengers, a central part of the experience, and profitable. I have no doubt.
Walking through the Dining Car and the Lounge, my impressions always are as follows: 1) no mission, these guys are here for a paycheck, nothing more 2) no pride, who develops a pride in a plastic wrapped burger?, 3) no menu -- the typical truck stop -- no, a poor truck stop -- has a better menu, 4) no leadership -- nobody's in charge that wants to make it work, 5) no marketing -- there is nothing to market, 6) no innovation -- the menus are dead, dead, dead, no restaurant on the planet could survive if they actually tried to sell that stuff to anybody but a captive audience, 7) no "use" of the environment to promote the product.
The Tip Top Tap used to be a real seller Chicago-Twin Cities. Now, on Amtrak if you want a beer or a coffee, it is handed to you by some guy stuck in a closet -- it's a manned vending machine!! -- but, that's not how any business makes money on those items in the real world.
And I think that is a key to Amtrak's thinking -- they have a railroad accountant in charge, and they are trying to make money on the item, whereas experienced food/beverage operators will tell you they make money on providing the experience -- then people buy more items.
Cripes, create an environment, play off the strong points of railroading -- make it memorable -- people will pay for it. Even airport lounges figured out that, to make money, you had to create an atmosphere, offer some quality -- and when they did -- they made money at it.
MichaelSol wrote: Datafever"As I listen to all of the problems that people have encountered with Amtrak's dining service, I wonder if it would make sense to dispose of the attendants and just go with vending machines.Essentially, that is what Amtrak has already created -- vending machines with human operators. Something of a uniquely Amtrak solution.It's the passenger version of the captive shipper. The customers aren't going anywhere -- we don't need to break our backs serving them.The employees are union, there is little incentive for them in tips, even as they are fairly ruthless in demanding them. There is low accountability for customer satisfaction. I've done a few restaurant business plans in my day and I can say with some certainty, Amtrak has it backwards. The cost of food -- and a perceived need to cut corners on food -- is not the major part of the costs for any kind of food service operation, let alone on a train. The idea that cutting corners will save money is exactly wrong -- they will sell less food, lose more money, and stutter along for another while, wondering why they keep losing money.And there will be no more corners to cut, everything will be round --- as in big fat red zeroes.A private operator, given the wonderful uniqueness of the facilities and the circumstances, would turn handstands to be able to turn those facilities and circumstances into something that would be, frankly, tons of fun for passengers, a central part of the experience, and profitable. I have no doubt.Walking through the Dining Car and the Lounge, my impressions always are as follows: 1) no mission, these guys are here for a paycheck, nothing more 2) no pride, who develops a pride in a plastic wrapped burger?, 3) no menu -- the typical truck stop -- no, a poor truck stop -- has a better menu, 4) no leadership -- nobody's in charge that wants to make it work, 5) no marketing -- there is nothing to market, 6) no innovation -- the menus are dead, dead, dead, no restaurant on the planet could survive if they actually tried to sell that stuff to anybody but a captive audience, 7) no "use" of the environment to promote the product. The Tip Top Tap used to be a real seller Chicago-Twin Cities. Now, on Amtrak if you want a beer or a coffee, it is handed to you by some guy stuck in a closet -- that's not how any business makes money on those items in the real world. And I think that is a key to Amtrak's thinking -- they have a railroad accountant in charge, and they are trying to make money on the item, whereas experienced food/beverage operators will tell you they make money on providing the experience -- then people buy more items.Cripes, create an environment, play off the strong points of railroading -- make it memorable -- people will pay for it. Even airport lounges figured out that, to make money, you had to create an atmosphere, offer some quality -- and when they did -- they made money at it.
Essentially, that is what Amtrak has already created -- vending machines with human operators. Something of a uniquely Amtrak solution.
The Tip Top Tap used to be a real seller Chicago-Twin Cities. Now, on Amtrak if you want a beer or a coffee, it is handed to you by some guy stuck in a closet -- that's not how any business makes money on those items in the real world.
Well, here's the rub. The trains Amtrak operates have to employ the people they employ, or they get "bought out", which can be very expensive. I am currently reading "The Men who Loved Trains". Labor protection is very,very harmful if the jobs protected are unproductive. Amtrak is still the same hopeless case it was 36 years ago. Some of it's creators knew that, yet there are some who think it can make a profit. It's creators knew it would always be on welfare. This is why labor protection is dying a slow death in all industries that are unionized, except one. MichaelSol put it up. Now find a way out of the cul-de-sac that Amtrak is in. If you can, then go to Washington and see how far you don't get!
OOOOKKKK. Does this mean that maybe next month,the corner of the Lounge car
will be turned into that so-called coffee shop known as Starbucks??? Then put
their sign on the outside of the Diner. They have done it in Banks and trying
every where else... Dave br,
RXRon wrote:And what do you make an hour? and do you think everybody else thinks your worth it? Lay off bashing the worker, it's a fair wage
How is your question relevant? If you come to me for work, and I offer you $15/hr do do a list of things each shift, no matter the order, and you accept, we have an agreement. You do the work, and I pay you. If the work is unacceptable, you wouldn't agree to it at the time of the job offer, right?
When she collects the pay, but over time begins to neglect to perform any of the work she originally agreed to do, "bashing" would be the least of the worker's worries.
Don't you think so? Would you continue to pay someone who unilaterally decided that some of the tasks simply didn't fit into her gestalt, but threatened to go to her union if you withheld a single cent of her salary? Smells different on the other foot, doesn't it?
selector wrote: RXRon wrote:And what do you make an hour? and do you think everybody else thinks your worth it? Lay off bashing the worker, it's a fair wageHow is your question relevant? If you come to me for work, and I offer you $15/hr do do a list of things each shift, no matter the order, and you accept, we have an agreement. You do the work, and I pay you. If the work is unacceptable, you wouldn't agree to it at the time of the job offer, right?When she collects the pay, but over time begins to neglect to perform any of the work she originally agreed to do, "bashing" would be the least of the worker's worries. Don't you think so? Would you continue to pay someone who unilaterally decided that some of the tasks simply didn't fit into her gestalt, but threatened to go to her union if you withheld a single cent of her salary? Smells different on the other foot, doesn't it?
I agree with you. Back when I owned my own company, I never had a problem with customer complaints, but if there had been any (and they were justified), the responsible employee would have soon found themselves facing a choice - either do the job you are being paid for, or hit the street.
Spokyone: Do you think that I have any answers? I have some influence, but nothing whatsoever in the direction of Amtrak operations. If the supervisor/manager/.../VP doesn't care to do anything about it, I doubt that there is anything that we can do except vote with our feet. And I kind of suspect that abandoning Amtrak would be throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
Ps. Where I come from, a scab is a person that crosses a picket line.
One solution that I can think of: Every time that you ride Amtrak, write a letter to some higher up. Be specific. List what was wrong (in your opinion), but also list what was right. Provide feedback. And CC several people while you are at it.
If enough people did this, upper management would soon get the message.
spokyone wrote:OK. Poor choice of words. I meant non-union personnel
Spokyone, I will have to apologize. My mind totally zoned out there. For some reason, I was thinking of the poor service that one finds on Amtrak trains, and that is what my response was related to.
Whew! I think I need a vacation.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.