I've enjoyed reading CSXEngineer's posts for the past two years. It's great that we have professional railroaders on this forum. The more the better.
However, GP40-2, why the flaming torpedoes? Totally unnecessary, uncalled for, and does not contribute to the high quality of this forum. Your intentions may be honorable, but you seem to be coming off as a bit "arrogant and self-absorbed" especially since this involves a fellow professional. You seem to be thoughtful so hopefully you're not in this category.
Relax.
Your comment: "I have absolutely zero tolerance for sloppy employees...." brings something to mind.
I've been fortunate to know a couple of CSX management employees. One very down to earth gentleman shared this with me in a conversation:
Sadly, there are a few blue and white collar CSX employees in Florida that are inflexible, inconsiderate, hard nosed, and don't care whose life they make miserable. These few make it hard on everyone else trying to do their jobs, union and non-union. While they may move up the ladder, sooner or later they challenge the wrong manager or employees and in due time are eventually gone from the payroll. The cycle repeats itself.
Interestingly these types of people are never missed by the employees or management. Being a sharp minded professional should always include "respect for others". Persons that don't understand this are seldom ever missed by others when they leave the job.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
We've had "forum etiquette" threads on spelling and punctuation before. I'm in favor.
But I'm not going to call valuable Forum members on mistakes unless (a) like SJ, I have a real problem understanding what they are trying to say, (b) they leave me with an opening that, as a wordsmith and one-time journalist, I find irresistable, or (c) I really have poster-specific vitriol in my system. Some of our most valued Forum members can't type well, but still can speak volumes. GP40-2, I daresay that if you met these fellow railroaders in person, they'd use their knowledge of the job and send you slinking away with your tail between your legs.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
I used to teach English grammar and composition in a business school, but these recent exchanges don't seem to be getting us anywhere (and besides, I don't issue tickets!).
To me a much more interesting topic came up before all the back-and-forth: do you engineers prefer engines from GE, or from EMD?
al-in-chgo
GP40-2 wrote:So, are you this sloppy on the job? Do you rush through safety issues in the same way? If you want to call yourself "csx engineer" in a public forum, then show some pride in yourself and the company. i dont know you gp40...Trust me, if you screw up on the job because you like to rush through things, I'm the last person at CSX you want to know. I have absolutely zero tolerance for sloppy employees. Have a good day yourself.
So, are you this sloppy on the job? Do you rush through safety issues in the same way? If you want to call yourself "csx engineer" in a public forum, then show some pride in yourself and the company.
i dont know you gp40...
Trust me, if you screw up on the job because you like to rush through things, I'm the last person at CSX you want to know. I have absolutely zero tolerance for sloppy employees.
Have a good day yourself.
Oh a big shot eh????
Don't tell me...let me guess...You are the guy that parks the executives cars in the parking lot in Jacksonville....right?
You are not impressing anyone here Junior.
CShaveRR wrote:GP40-2, I daresay that if you met these fellow railroaders in person, they'd use their knowledge of the job and send you slinking away with your tail between your legs.
GP40-2, I daresay that if you met these fellow railroaders in person, they'd use their knowledge of the job and send you slinking away with your tail between your legs.
Really? Considering my employment started on the B&O when it was still an independent company--pre Chessie System and and pre CSX--I daresay I have worked in railroading longer than many of "these fellow railroaders" have been alive on this planet. If somebody wants to get into a pissing contest about job knowledge, bring it on. I won't be the one "slinking" away.
Maybe you care to share your vast years of railroad experience with all of us.
GP-40, your .
Lighten up. Go get drunk. Watch a game. Maybe eat the whole cheesecake. You need to get out more. Or at least think about swtiching to de-caf
Best Regards, Big John
Kiva Valley Railway- Freelanced road in central Arizona. Visit the link to see my MR forum thread on The Building of the Whitton Branch on the Kiva Valley Railway
POPCORN ANYONE???
I do have something to say here. I am glad most of you shot down what was said eariler in this thread against the attacks on csxengineer. I quite hoestly have never thought that someone's spelling should reflect the intellengence (sp?) a person has. There are many intellegent people that do have problems with "little" or basic things, it depends on the individual. For instance I have always had problems with spelling, due to one little thing dislexia. However, I never use that has an excuse and I do try to work on my "problems".
GP40-2.Just curious.What is your title at CSX ? Care to share that with us ?I know the Chessie was formed in what,1979 if my memory is correct ?So yes,me being born in 1969 is most likely as mentioned,a few years,or decades differance in our ages.
Myself ,I hired in as a brakeman in 1991,and was promoted as an Engineer in 1993.I will be working for the NS,16 years in May of this year.
My Dad hired on the C&O in 1962.And he retired in 2002 as a Machinist on the CSX,42 years total.
My Granddad hired on the Virginian in 1909,and passed away in 1965,an was still an active employee of the C&O.He had worked some on the Southern and DT&I r.r.'s,due to layoffs and the depression.Minus a few years being laid off,53 years of actual work
My GreatGranddad was an Engineer,starting out as a Fireman,for 45 years on the Virginian r.r..
And countless Uncles,Great Uncles and second cousins also worked for the Virginian and N&W and NS r.r.'s,with too many years to count
A total of 156 years though,from my GreatGranddad to myself.
My Mothers Dad and Granddad both worked for the C&O and Seaboard r.r. for a combined total of 45 years.
All together a total of 201 years,that I can count right off, of railroading in my family and in my blood.
That explains why "we railroaders" stick up our guns for one another.And take a little offense to someone "picking" on another brother.
If you have a family tradition of railroading in your family,like many of us on here may have,I'm sure you'll understand why some take a defensive stand when someone attacks another forum member,even if it was an unintentional "poke in the eye" .
It's sorta like a small community on here.You start to learn everyone's life,their likes and dislikes.And also what hurts someone's pride.
Collin ,operator of the " Eastern Kentucky & Ohio R.R."
As long as you asked, though not very politely, I've probably been a railroader as long as you have. Read some of the other threads. I'm just waiting for sixty to roll around.
Now I'm going to go to work. I hope, when I return, that this thread has either been locked or returned to normalcy.
And since I am an engineer in the vast expanse of my mind - I prefer EMD's - up to the SD70's. After that - it all went to pieces.
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
GP40-2 wrote: CShaveRR wrote: GP40-2, I daresay that if you met these fellow railroaders in person, they'd use their knowledge of the job and send you slinking away with your tail between your legs.Really? Considering my employment started on the B&O when it was still an independent company--pre Chessie System and and pre CSX--I daresay I have worked in railroading longer than many of "these fellow railroaders" have been alive on this planet. If somebody wants to get into a pissing contest about job knowledge, bring it on. I won't be the one "slinking" away.Maybe you care to share your vast years of railroad experience with all of us.
CShaveRR wrote: GP40-2, I daresay that if you met these fellow railroaders in person, they'd use their knowledge of the job and send you slinking away with your tail between your legs.
You know Palie, they have support groups for people like you.
And its a pretty sad state of affairs when you have to come onto a railfan posting board to boast about what an "important job" you have.
You're not impressing me...you not impressing anyone else. But I will have you to to know that I have known csxengineer98 for many years, and even if you are an CSX employee (which I highly suspect at this point), you should consider yourself lucky to have such a good competant, dedicated and dependable worker as he.
Now run along and go play with your toy trains...you're a railroad big shot remember???
First, about csxengineer, although I haven't been on these boards as much as I'd like, I have gotten lots of useful info from his posts. I also see that many people make minor mistakes with spelling and grammar. Whoop-de-dooooooooooooooo! I can still understand what they're saying, so as long as csxengineer doesn't ty[pe something like "DoSe GuYs LiKe HaD tO LiKe MaKe a G3n3r!c 10c0mot!v3 MoVeMeNt-Lahl!!!!!11!!!1eleventy-one...", I don't have any problem with him. : )
Now on topic, a few questions to you loco engineers. How does pay differ from your last days as a conductor to your first as an engineer? I'm curious how much a change is made to your paycheck. Of course, as with most jobs, the worker usually receives just over 1/2 of their gross earnings, so there's not too much difference here and the 40% thingy makes sense. Now the next question is about the taxes. From what I understand, if correct, railroaders don't pay social security, but a railroad retirement tax. How much does this tax differ from social security? Finally, what is the typical salary for 1st-year conductors? Thanks.
Now regarding something I thought was mentioned earlier, though maybe in a different thread, was the difficulty of hanging onto cars for long times. I hear that people seem to have more trouble with this than teh coupler-lifting. For me, hanging onto a car was pretty easy. The hard part was holding the cold ladder, and the fact that it was rusty and was virtually ripping my hands apart (another question-does the railroad provide gloves?). I hadn't taken the foficial test yet, but this is past experience. So, I'm wondering why a lot of people fail at it. It does help to change positions from time to time, and it also seems that riding with one foot a rung higher than the other, and one hand higher one rung than the other, makes long rides much easier.
I make about $40.00 bucks more then a cornductor.
zapp wrote: I make about $40.00 bucks more then a cornductor.
I'll tell you what, I love this thread for what it is intended to be. As a non-railroader (although I am an avid train fan and model railroader), I enjoy learning a bit more about the profession. I'm not sure what the intentions of GP-40 really are. He seems to be someone in need of attention. However, I do respect CSXEngineer's contributions to this thread and these forums in general.
Thanks to all that have taught me a bit more about life in the cab.
Jeff
Reno Sparky wrote:I sure wish he would use a spell checker. He may know his job but half of what he writes I can't understand because of the poor spelling. I hope the spelling in his train logs are a whole lot better than what's online. And no, this isn't a personal slam. I really would like to be able to understand clearly what he is saying as he seems to have a lot of good information. Bill
I sure wish he would use a spell checker. He may know his job but half of what he writes I can't understand because of the poor spelling. I hope the spelling in his train logs are a whole lot better than what's online. And no, this isn't a personal slam. I really would like to be able to understand clearly what he is saying as he seems to have a lot of good information.
Bill
what a total PANTLOAD !!! I've been reading CSX Engineer's posts here for 4 years, and NEVER has his spelling caused even the slightest confusion on my part as to what he's saying.
He's also pretty generous offering explanations to questions and other RR related complexities. I am most beholden to him for much info, I hope he never changes.
5 more guys just like him, would make this place a better forum
The hard part was holding the cold ladder,
Speaking of cold! It was -25 degrees F, riding the end of a set of hoppers back about a mile and a half. I was bundled up nice and warm, but, the moisture from my breath was escaping from my ballaclava and condensating on my eyelashes. When I blinked my eyes, they would freeze shut!
BTW, EMDs for me please.
BTW Pt.2, GP40s (the engines) were pretty good.
.
AntonioFP45 wrote: I've enjoyed reading CSXEngineer's posts for the past two years. It's great that we have professional railroaders on this forum. The more the better. However, GP40-2, why the flaming torpedoes? Totally unnecessary, uncalled for, and does not contribute to the high quality of this forum. Your intentions may be honorable, but you seem to be coming off as a bit "arrogant and self-absorbed" especially since this involves a fellow professional. You seem to be thoughtful so hopefully you're not in this category.Relax. Your comment: "I have absolutely zero tolerance for sloppy employees...." brings something to mind.I've been fortunate to know a couple of CSX management employees. One very down to earth gentleman shared this with me in a conversation: Sadly, there are a few blue and white collar CSX employees in Florida that are inflexible, inconsiderate, hard nosed, and don't care whose life they make miserable. These few make it hard on everyone else trying to do their jobs, union and non-union. While they may move up the ladder, sooner or later they challenge the wrong manager or employees and in due time are eventually gone from the payroll. The cycle repeats itself. Interestingly these types of people are never missed by the employees or management. Being a sharp minded professional should always include "respect for others". Persons that don't understand this are seldom ever missed by others when they leave the job.
WERD! I work for Sperry Rail Service, which by no means is a real railroad company, but none the less without us and our services trains flop over on a daily basis. One thing that rings true is the sqeaky wheel gets the grease. Take for instance with the gradual downfall of the SP in the late 60's and 70's that eventually led to it being taken over time and time again. Many college grads brought down in my opinion one of the best railroads, by ousting people that could do the job and replacing them with ones that had no idea how to run a railroad but none the less had a college degree. The focus shifted from running a good company that focused on employee's as well as the customer to one of driving stocks and profit sharing. Trains are driven and railroads operated by seat of your pants skills not by executive hooie. The SP lost out on many a great things because people with degrees had no sense of good customer relations, people skills, or good employee ethics. I feel that the every day railroader are some of the greatest people out there and they deserve respect and I applaud them for the services and work they do. Degree or not.
wow...i never knew i had a fan club of this size... i want to thank you all for your suport and kinds words... i guess in a way this place is a brotherhood in some respects too... nice to know that my input is looked apon with good reviews...(dispite my poor spelling..and my bullheaded additued about not useing spell check..lol)
THANKS EVERYONE!!!!!!
csx engineer
csxe - I am married to someone who misspells, types lousy and has a tendency to be a little bullheaded and I wouldn't trade him for all the world!
But this topic leads me to - the difference between a GP and an SD (the names imply about the same thing except for the wheel arrangement. (for the unitiated and to see if I have my facts correct - GP is general purpose and a 2 wheel axel and SD is special duty and a 3 wheel axel - am I correct or incorrect?)
I assume that the GP would be a little less power? The SD40 is what we see the most of and they may have been over the roads at one time while GP's were more yard engines? Someone want to enlighten me? (probably for the 4th or 5th time - so I have a memory problem! So get over it. I am bullheaded, too!)
Hi Mookie,
Others here have more info, but I'll try this in a nutshell:
EMD introduced the 3,000 horsepower, 16 cylinder 4 axle GP40 and 6 axle SD40 during the mid 1960s. This was the era of the famous "Horsepower Wars" primarily between EMD, ALCO, and GE. Because of the "hood" design, they were designated as road switchers by EMD, but most railroads that purchased these units used them for road service.
In 1972, EMD updated the electrical systems on their model lines which included the elimination of the DC generator, and replacing it with an A/C alternator (which is what our automobiles use to recharge the battery ). So the new units were designated as "Dash 2" or "2nd Generation" models.
Though horsepower was the same, the 6 axle units had 2 additional traction motors compared to the GP units. Very helpful for starting long, heavy trains. The GPs, from what I've read, were faster on the takeoff and were favored for use in runs where there were a lot of curves. Still, there are plenty of photos depicting GPs and SDs in the same lashup.
BTW: Amtrak's F40phs were essentialy modified GP40-2s with streamlined carbodies. They proved to be Amtrak's most successful locomotives, logging millions of miles.
By far the SD40-2 proved to be the most popular U.S diesel with Class 1 freight railroads from the mid 1970s throughout the 80s. It was not unusual to see 4 or 5 unit lashups of these monsters hauling 65 mph manifests on the high iron. Though their ranks are thinning, they can still be seen running in mainline and secondary service. Some end their careers switching long batches of cars in hump yards. Interestingly, a number of SD40-2s and GP40-2s have been sold off to regional railroads where they continue in service today.
CSX, at least here on the Florida west coast, still uses GP40-2s in mainline and local jobs. I saw one recently that, to my surprise, was repainted into the darkblue scheme.
AntonioFP45 wrote:Though horsepower was the same, the 6 axle units had 2 additional traction motors compared to the GP units. Very helpful for starting long, heavy trains. The GPs, from what I've read, were faster on the takeoff and were favored for use in runs where there were a lot of curves. Still, there are plenty of photos depicting GPs and SDs in the same lashup.
I'll tell you what, AntonioFP, you did a great job of summarizing this. You laid out the historical perspective and everything is just at the level that I need in order to understand it. I get the feeling that if I keep reading this forum long enough, I might actually learn to appreciate the differences between locomotive types.
Now I have a question related to what you said. You talked about GPs and SDs running together. You also say that the GPs were faster on the takeoff. I don't know if that means starting from zero, or if it also applies to powering up after slowing down (say, for a curve).
The picture I get is that if the units are in the same consist, you throttle up, and the GPs want to take off before the SDs do. With a long, heavy train, the GPs in the consist may not be able to move the train all alone, but the SDs aren't ready to help out yet. The SDs are still thinking about it.
From a standstill, could that cause the GPs to "spin their wheels"?
And during mid-journey acceleration, say after a curve, how does that difference affect train handling?
Thank you DataFever, but wow! That's definetly a good question I'm sure that the professional railroaders here can answer. All I know is that units in MU mode work together electrically and power is distributed in a manner enabling the units traction motors to respond simultaneously.
Interesting sidebar regarding wheel slippage:
A friend of mine recently shared with me of an interesting problem that one CSX's predecessors, Seaboard Coast Line, often encountered back in the 1970s. Their 4 axle GE U36Bs were rated at 3,600 horsepower. Engineers had to be "extra gentle" after stretching out and then taking off with heavy trains in MU lashups. Apparently these GEs developed so much torque when taking off with loads that their wheels would literally spin like a car burning rubber.
Hey Antonio, Dittos to what Datafever said... nice concise post.
I just love SD40-2's, they are far and away my favorite locmotive.... My photo collection is replete with examples of them.... I often wondered about the sound they make, it's different from even the SD-70's (My other favorite) and the GE's like the Dash 9's and AC4400's. I love the deep thrum the SD's make when they are winding up, and also, the sound when they are at speed is different then the others too. Does anyone else know what I mean? I love standing trackside when a lash up of SD40's comes through. You can "feel" the locomotive as it goes by, the air itself seems to vibrate.
AntonioFP45 wrote: Engineers had to be "extra gentle" after stretching out and then taking off with heavy trains in MU lashups. Apparently these GEs developed so much torque when taking off with loads that their wheels would literally spin like a car burning rubber.
Engineers had to be "extra gentle" after stretching out and then taking off with heavy trains in MU lashups. Apparently these GEs developed so much torque when taking off with loads that their wheels would literally spin like a car burning rubber.
The GP units divided their horsepower between four traction motors, the SD between 6 traction motors. If we use the "40" series for our example, it would mean that each traction motor on a GP would have 1500hp to work with, whereas a SD would have only 1000hp. The best (but not very good) analogy I can come up with is a comparision to your vehicle if you are driving on wet or snowy roads. Give your accelerator too big a push, and your wheels spin.
Before the fancy wheel-slip controls on the new locomotives, we frequently had to use the independent brake to help control wheel-slip. I generally found that a 10-15 psi application was sufficient (with a light touch on the throttle) to keep the wheels from spinning too much. The light independent application also serves to clean and dry the wheels, which also increases traction. However, this method does not work, and should NOT be used on anything newer than the '50' series locomotives (if memory serves).
On the other hand, sometimes it was fun to try to get the #2 axle to slip intentionally just to see how fast we could get the spedometer to indicate (the older locomotives used a cable connected to the #2 axle for the speed reading). One time I had the spedometer showing 75mph as the train was moving all of about 3mph; unfortunately, the speed indication caused the overspeed relay to trip, causing a penalty brake application (I had a tough time explaining to the yardmonster yardmaster what happened). This practice is frowned upon by management because it is hard on the traction motors (especially if you hit a dry spot and the wheel suddenly grips the rail) and also really bad for the railhead.
Regarding the combining of SD and GP locomotives, the biggest difference is when the lead unit is a SD and some trailing units are GP. Your lead SD might be just barely holding the rail while your trailing GP might be slipping. Unless you notice the wheel-slip indicator flashing, you might not realize the rear unit(s) are slipping unless you feel them bucking.
Everything I've ever read has indicated that the GP-40's are/were a bit slippery. On the other hand, they have the horsepower to move a priority freight along at track speed - a popular application. Speed takes horsepower. Given the traction, gearing, etc, you could move a 100 car coal drag with a 3 HP Briggs and Stratton. But not very fast!
Z - a minor correction: 3000 HP divided by 4 traction motors=750 HP each. 3000/6=500 HP per axle. The rest of the explanation is right on, though.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
tree68 wrote: Z - a minor correction: 3000 HP divided by 4 traction motors=750 HP each. 3000/6=500 HP per axle. The rest of the explanation is right on, though.
My typing and grammar might be good, but my math sure sucks!!!
My Dad mentioned this once.According to the C&O/CSX power management recommendations your suppose to place the lowest horsepower locomotive in the lead.Because most generally they will try to "outrun" the bigger,slower loading higher horsepower units.
Now I have found this to be true on the line of road,because were always getting a mesh mash of locos. when getting run thru trains.
Also it's better to have an EMD in front of a GE account of the way the two different locomotive brands load.
You'll really notice this when you've been on a slow order,say 10-25 mph,then you start pulling back on the throttle to get back to track speed.If the EMD is in the rear ,and the GE in the front,the EMD will try to run all over the GE in the lead.
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