zapp wrote: We still have Brakeman/Switchman on the MP properties. We also have Brakeman/ Switchman local chairperson's.
We still have Brakeman/Switchman on the MP properties. We also have Brakeman/ Switchman local chairperson's.
That's true for protected pre-1985 employees. While a post 1985 employee may hold a switchman/brakeman position, he or she will be still be a fully qualifed Conductor, and not a switchman or brakeman.
Nick
Take a Ride on the Reading with the: Reading Company Technical & Historical Society http://www.readingrailroad.org/
nbrodar wrote: zapp wrote: As long as there is a junior man below you, who will except the promotion to engine service, they can't force you to accept it. That is true on some roads (Conrail). But remember, each time you pass on the promotion you will lose senority to those that take the promotion. You live and die by your senority. Other roads (CSX) you must take the promotion when your turn comes up to keep you senority. CSX contract states that as long as you accept promotion to engineer when your slot first comes up, your conductor's senority becomes your engineer's senority. Pass once, you'll go to the bottom of the engineer's roster, pass twice and your out on the street. If you get the position, learn the rule book and the agreements that you work under. You can make alot of money on penalty claims, because management either doesn't know the agreements, or doesn't care. Work Smarter, not Harder. I fully agree with this. However, depending on the circumstances of the claim, it can take several years to get them paid. Nick
zapp wrote: As long as there is a junior man below you, who will except the promotion to engine service, they can't force you to accept it.
As long as there is a junior man below you, who will except the promotion to engine service, they can't force you to accept it.
That is true on some roads (Conrail). But remember, each time you pass on the promotion you will lose senority to those that take the promotion.
You live and die by your senority.
Other roads (CSX) you must take the promotion when your turn comes up to keep you senority. CSX contract states that as long as you accept promotion to engineer when your slot first comes up, your conductor's senority becomes your engineer's senority. Pass once, you'll go to the bottom of the engineer's roster, pass twice and your out on the street.
If you get the position, learn the rule book and the agreements that you work under. You can make alot of money on penalty claims, because management either doesn't know the agreements, or doesn't care. Work Smarter, not Harder.
If you get the position, learn the rule book and the agreements that you work under. You can make alot of money on penalty claims, because management either doesn't know the agreements, or doesn't care.
Work Smarter, not Harder.
I fully agree with this. However, depending on the circumstances of the claim, it can take several years to get them paid.
NS also forces employees to LETS based upon seniority. I was in one of the last real Conrail LETS classes at Conway even though it was after the split. We had many older guys in the class who were all forced. One even hired on the EL in 1974. His mistake. He changed crafts from track to T&E in 1987...they forced him to LETS...
LC
jeffhergert wrote: Any prescription glasses are accepted for the personal protective equipment/safety glasses requirement for train engine and yard service employees. Yes, I know there are some out there with small lenses and I wonder if or how they would be OK. I wear glasses and the vision insurance will pay $100 for frames every 2 years. Anything over and you pay the remaining balance. Jeff
Any prescription glasses are accepted for the personal protective equipment/safety glasses requirement for train engine and yard service employees. Yes, I know there are some out there with small lenses and I wonder if or how they would be OK. I wear glasses and the vision insurance will pay $100 for frames every 2 years. Anything over and you pay the remaining balance.
Jeff
Yes, most regular perscription glasses are acceptable. However, if you choose the railroad will provide you with one free pair of clear and one free pair of tinted glasses - from a limited selection of frame and lens styles. This is completely seperate from the eyewear provided for by the vision insurance.
Limitedclear wrote:NS also forces employees to LETS based upon seniority. I was in one of the last real Conrail LETS classes at Conway even though it was after the split. We had many older guys in the class who were all forced. One even hired on the EL in 1974. His mistake. He changed crafts from track to T&E in 1987...they forced him to LETS...
nbrodar wrote: jeffhergert wrote: Any prescription glasses are accepted for the personal protective equipment/safety glasses requirement for train engine and yard service employees. Yes, I know there are some out there with small lenses and I wonder if or how they would be OK. I wear glasses and the vision insurance will pay $100 for frames every 2 years. Anything over and you pay the remaining balance. Jeff Yes, most regular perscription glasses are acceptable. However, if you choose the railroad will provide you with one free pair of clear and one free pair of tinted glasses - from a limited selection of frame and lens styles. This is completely seperate from the eyewear provided for by the vision insurance. Nick
Maybe at your company, but all I've ever been told is they will pay for eye surgery, if available to restore vision.
Datafever wrote: Limitedclear wrote: NS also forces employees to LETS based upon seniority. I was in one of the last real Conrail LETS classes at Conway even though it was after the split. We had many older guys in the class who were all forced. One even hired on the EL in 1974. His mistake. He changed crafts from track to T&E in 1987...they forced him to LETS... LETS???
Limitedclear wrote: NS also forces employees to LETS based upon seniority. I was in one of the last real Conrail LETS classes at Conway even though it was after the split. We had many older guys in the class who were all forced. One even hired on the EL in 1974. His mistake. He changed crafts from track to T&E in 1987...they forced him to LETS...
Locomotive Engineer Training School
I agree, if you decide you want to go into engine service, alot of folks will get around you, but if you don't (and I ahve alot of friends that haven't) want ot go into engine service it really doesn't matter.
Yes, that's true we've been working on one batch of claims for years now. It stems from the carrier (UPRR) not adjusting the boards (extra boards in particular) per the local chairman and mileage agreements. We had folks running 8000 miles a week! When the board called for 32, UP would cap it at, say, 24. The guy's on the board were making $4000-5000 a half! But, on the downside, fatique was a serious problem. They would climb on the engine and go to sleep before they even departed the terminal! The engineer's, for the most part, understood and covered down on the guy's.
We finally got the International's ear into it and they in turn got the Federal Goverment (FRA) into it, which got Omaha to "play nice". We found out this wasn't just a local thing, but a system wide offense. Now conductors can, as hogheads have been able to do for along time now, get undisturbed rest. It's not great, but it's a heck of alot better.
Zapp,
I'm surprised UP hasn't taken the CSX and NS stance on engine school....you go or you're fired. After all, the contract you "sign" when you hire states that you understand you must accept promotion to engineer. Then again, CSX's contract allows for a single senority date, rather then seperate Conductors and Engineer dates.
Datafever wrote:Is there really that much of a shortage of people willing to be engineers?
It's not about a shortage of people willing to be engineers - there isn't. It's about what the contract says, and the contract says everyone will eventually be an engineer.
Which is what the carriers want...the Universal Service Employee. The engineer, being able to work both as a conductor and engineer, is the more versatile employee.
I'll probably be vilified for saying this...but I think the USE is inevitable. Sooner or later, probably sooner, the carriers will force the unions to accept this issue. Just like they did with the fireman, brakeman, and flagman.
Most of the new hires want to be engineers eventually in my experience. Also, some guys who are traimen for a while and don't care for being on the ground in the weather gravitate towards engine service eventually. What holds people back is often that they gain some seniority as trainmen and the quality of life and paycheck that goes with holding a regular assignment and they understandably don't want to give that up to take a pay cut as an Engineer Trainee and upon promotion probably go to the bottom of the Engineer's extra board or worse, be bumped back to right where they were, working in train service until engineer openings (which have shrunk with the advent of RCL) become available in their terminal or district.
Limitedclear wrote: Datafever wrote:Is there really that much of a shortage of people willing to be engineers? Most of the new hires want to be engineers eventually in my experience. Also, some guys who are traimen for a while and don't care for being on the ground in the weather gravitate towards engine service eventually. What holds people back is often that they gain some seniority as trainmen and the quality of life and paycheck that goes with holding a regular assignment and they understandably don't want to give that up to take a pay cut as an Engineer Trainee and upon promotion probably go to the bottom of the Engineer's extra board or worse, be bumped back to right where they were, working in train service until engineer openings (which have shrunk with the advent of RCL) become available in their terminal or district. LC
If they gave me a oppertunity to promote to engineer I guess I would go but you hit the nail on the head with workers and thier accustomed life style. If I drove a steam locomotive a short distance under reasonable control I would feel very happy. However considering the challenges facing those who might be operating a engine over the road or in the yard not everyone can or should do it. I consider myself one of those people who should stick to running model trains and out of the cab of the real thing.
Cheers.
Safety Valve wrote: nbrodar wrote: Bob-Fryml wrote: If you're being hired for Milwaukee here's a very important question to ask: "Am I being hired as a switchman?" or "Am I being hired for train service?" Milwaukee United Transportation Union work rules are under the jurisdiction of the C.& N.W. General Committee and I don't think you'll be allowed to hold dual rights? If you're hired as a switchman, you may not be able to establish conductor/brakeman seniority. If you're hired as a brakeman, conductor promotion will happen eventually; but, you may not be able to hold any jobs that are protected by the switchmen craft. Everywhere I've worked - Conrail/CSX/NS, the craft of switchman exists on paper only. No one is hired as a brakeman or switchman anymore. You will establish universal trainman's senority...which covers the crafts of Conductor, Brakeman, Switchman, Yard Foreman, and RCO Operator. Essentially, you'll be a "fully qualified" conductor the day you mark up. Eventually, however you will have to accept promotion to engineer. Nick Eventually?! Have to Accept?! Hmm. I gotta tell ya if they stick me fresh from training in front of a 40 car train and hand me a stack of Lading with rules etc and tell me "Mush!" Im gonna turn to mush. It takes special people to drive a train. Not everyone can do it or live that life.
nbrodar wrote: Bob-Fryml wrote: If you're being hired for Milwaukee here's a very important question to ask: "Am I being hired as a switchman?" or "Am I being hired for train service?" Milwaukee United Transportation Union work rules are under the jurisdiction of the C.& N.W. General Committee and I don't think you'll be allowed to hold dual rights? If you're hired as a switchman, you may not be able to establish conductor/brakeman seniority. If you're hired as a brakeman, conductor promotion will happen eventually; but, you may not be able to hold any jobs that are protected by the switchmen craft. Everywhere I've worked - Conrail/CSX/NS, the craft of switchman exists on paper only. No one is hired as a brakeman or switchman anymore. You will establish universal trainman's senority...which covers the crafts of Conductor, Brakeman, Switchman, Yard Foreman, and RCO Operator. Essentially, you'll be a "fully qualified" conductor the day you mark up. Eventually, however you will have to accept promotion to engineer. Nick
Bob-Fryml wrote: If you're being hired for Milwaukee here's a very important question to ask: "Am I being hired as a switchman?" or "Am I being hired for train service?" Milwaukee United Transportation Union work rules are under the jurisdiction of the C.& N.W. General Committee and I don't think you'll be allowed to hold dual rights? If you're hired as a switchman, you may not be able to establish conductor/brakeman seniority. If you're hired as a brakeman, conductor promotion will happen eventually; but, you may not be able to hold any jobs that are protected by the switchmen craft.
If you're being hired for Milwaukee here's a very important question to ask: "Am I being hired as a switchman?" or "Am I being hired for train service?" Milwaukee United Transportation Union work rules are under the jurisdiction of the C.& N.W. General Committee and I don't think you'll be allowed to hold dual rights? If you're hired as a switchman, you may not be able to establish conductor/brakeman seniority. If you're hired as a brakeman, conductor promotion will happen eventually; but, you may not be able to hold any jobs that are protected by the switchmen craft.
Everywhere I've worked - Conrail/CSX/NS, the craft of switchman exists on paper only. No one is hired as a brakeman or switchman anymore. You will establish universal trainman's senority...which covers the crafts of Conductor, Brakeman, Switchman, Yard Foreman, and RCO Operator. Essentially, you'll be a "fully qualified" conductor the day you mark up.
Eventually, however you will have to accept promotion to engineer.
Eventually?! Have to Accept?! Hmm.
I gotta tell ya if they stick me fresh from training in front of a 40 car train and hand me a stack of Lading with rules etc and tell me "Mush!" Im gonna turn to mush.
It takes special people to drive a train. Not everyone can do it or live that life.
Mike WSOR engineer | HO scale since 1988 | Visit our club www.WCGandyDancers.com
nbrodar wrote: Zapp, I'm surprised UP hasn't taken the CSX and NS stance on engine school....you go or you're fired. After all, the contract you "sign" when you hire states that you understand you must accept promotion to engineer. Then again, CSX's contract allows for a single senority date, rather then seperate Conductors and Engineer dates. Nick
A single senority date, WOW! I didn't know that, I've never even heard of it.
UP doesn't care who is behind the throttle, as long as there is a body up there.
zapp wrote: nbrodar wrote: Zapp, I'm surprised UP hasn't taken the CSX and NS stance on engine school....you go or you're fired. After all, the contract you "sign" when you hire states that you understand you must accept promotion to engineer. Then again, CSX's contract allows for a single senority date, rather then seperate Conductors and Engineer dates. Nick A single senority date, WOW! I didn't know that, I've never even heard of it. UP doesn't care who is behind the throttle, as long as there is a body up there.
Yeah, it's one of the few smart things CSX has done. However, to get your conductor's date as your engine date, you MUST take promotion when your slot comes up the first time.
LC, single craft, single roster is still the goal. Some roads are just more aggressive about then others.
CSX got the single seniority because the unions asked for it. There were alot of complaints about people going to other terminals (that were promoting engineers) to qualify as engineers, and then returning to their home terminal (which wasn't promoting engineers). Thereby "running around" many people senority wise.
timmytrainman wrote:I have been invited to interview for a Transportation Management Associate position. I am red/green color deficient. Will the railroad disqualify me for this position based on my vision limitations? I need to know before I take three days off from work and spend a bunch of money traveling to Salt Lake City. Any information would be great.
I'm not saying that it would, but it really should.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
A red/green color deficiency probably will get you disqualified from any field operations position in the transportation department. After all if you can't distinguish the differences among the red, yellow, and green block signal aspects, you wouldn't be a very safe employee. But, to make sure, see if you can arrange with a local optometrist or ophthamologist for a pseudoisochromatic plate test for color blindness. Also I should think that any physician licensed to give flight physicals would be able to perform this color blindness test as well.
Good luck, and I hope everything works out for the best!
/s/ Bob
Hello everyone,
It is difficult to ascertain detailed info pertaining to the work environment of UP. Does anyone (first line supervisor and up) know what the physical requirement are for management trainee positions (transpo)? I have allergy induced asthma and I am concerned about how much of my day (as a supervisor) would be spent outdoors?
Thanks for any and all info...
Thanks for the replies! But I am still unclear what happens "in the yard"? What are the "Joes" doing? Loading/unloading freight? If someone could give me an example of a "typical day" in the yard, then I would appreciate it.
Sincerely,
You're looking for serious answers but you wouldn't be loading or unloading freight, you'd be supervising yard operations, which consists of switching cars, i. e., transferring cars from one track to another to make up blocks of cars that get assembled with other blocks of cars that make up trains, as well as trains that enter and leave yards, making up their trains by coupling one track to another (doubling), making required air tests, and other operations.
I don't know, the health issues might be a drawback, especially in the beginning, you'd be outside a lot.
ValleyX,
Thanks for the informative reply!
Question regarding call-outs. Is that a cell phone-age invention, or has it been around forever ?
I.e., in the days before cell phones, how did it work ? Employee couldn't have been expected to sit around the house *every* day and night.
Mailman56701 wrote: Question regarding call-outs. Is that a cell phone-age invention, or has it been around forever ? I.e., in the days before cell phones, how did it work ? Employee couldn't have been expected to sit around the house *every* day and night.
That's exactly how it worked! One could call in to the "Crew Caller" and find out where you stood on the Extra Board. That info could give you a general idea how long it would be until you would be called and you could plan your activities accordingly.
In those days, when you knew you were close to being called, you stayed by the telephone if you wanted the work.
Mike
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