HIGH-SPEED RAIL SERVICE

[Anonymous]

I BELIEVE THE UNITED STATES SHOULD BUILD A NATIONAL NETWORK OF NEW, DEDICATED, HSR LINES COAST-TO-COAST AND NORTH TO SOUTH. I WOULD RECOMMEND THREE E/W LINES (I.E., NORTHERN TIER OF CITIES, CENTRAL US DC/BALT. TO SAN FRANCISCO, SOUTHERN TIER OF CITIES, AND THREE NORTH-SOUTH LINES--WEST COAST, MISSISSIPPI VALLEY CHICAGO-NEW ORLEANS, EAST COAST.

CONNECTIONS WOULD BE ESTABLISHED AT KEY NODAL POINTS FOR INTEROPERABILITY. LINES WOULD BE PRIVATELY OPERATED, OVER PUBLICLY-OWNED RIGHTS-OF-WAY CREATED BY GOVERNMENT LAND CONDEMNATION AND RE-USE OF EXISTING ROW IN URBAN AREAS (LIKE FRANCE, FOR EXAMPLE).

TECHNOLOGY WOULD BE STEEL-WHEEL-ON-STEEL-RAIL, WITH THREE TIERS OF SERVICE: NONSTOP COAST-TO-COAST, EXPRESS BETWEEN KEY CITIES, AND EVERY-CITY SERVICE. LINES WOULD BE DOUBLE-TRACKED WITH HIGH-SPEED CROSSOVERS.

FINANCING WOULD BE PUBLIC-PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP (LIKE ORIGINAL RRS IN 19TH CENT).

YOUR THOUGHTS?

JOSEPH J. SNYDER
SHEPHERDSTOWN, WV
E-MAIL: [e-mail]

[Anonymous]

FANTASITIC!

Anyone got $9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999.99 ?

[Anonymous]

Mr. ICETRAIN is being snide in his reply, but I can be Snyder....In any case, preliminary estimates indicate the cost to build a coast-to-coast HSR line DC/Baltimore through to San Francisco, connecting all major cities enroute (i.e. Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Louisville, St. Louis, Kansas City, Denver, Salt Lake, Reno, Sacramento) would be in excess of $100 billion. The trainsets (10-car, off the shelf Alsthom/bombardier HSR units) would run about $30 million each.

This is a lot of money. But it is doable with a combination of long-term public and private financing. That is how the existing rail lines were built (and those lines will still be needed for freight and commuter lines).

Consider that we are at a crossroads in the USA. We must EITHER build massive new airports even further from the cities they serve (and only two new ones have opened in the last 30 years, Dallas/Ft. Worth and Denver), OR build HSR lines to serve the burgeoning urban areas of the US in the long-term future. Given that oil is a rapidly diminishing and finite-supply commodity (world peak production passed in the year 2000, according to the ASSN FOR THE STUDY OF PEAK OIL, see website), is it not prudent to begin a system that can use a variety of sources of electrical energy supply for power (i.e. nuclear, conventional, wind, geothermal, etc. etc.)?

Transportation is 20 % of the economy, and is the key to it. Unless we prepare for the future (as Japan and Europe have done), we will be behind the curve, permanently, with all the consequences that entails.

J. Snyder

[Anonymous]

We all bemoan the fact that this country is not building a HSR serving the whole country. The facts are simple. The studies have shown what it would costs would be to build it and it is true it is high, so where would the money come from. For starters, we could take the 5 billion a year that goes to Israel, add the 4 billion to Egypt and have a nice little fund to start building, after all, what have these countries ever done for us. Congress are now debating the President's request for 87 billion for Iraq with more to come. If the government can find the money to fight uncalled for wars[except Bush] and to maintain the life styles of other countries, if they wanted, they could find it to build our HSR.

[Anonymous]

To Pop of "Scottydog" (and all who think similarly):

While I appreciate your point (i.e., that Iraq is taking all the money), I do not think that is the case at all, regardless of the politics of that war.

The plain fact, as you suggest, is that it could be done. Congress would have to put its back into it, rather than spinning like a top in overdrive at each new will-o-the-wisp that surfaces on the journalistic radar screen.

Money is available in the private capital markets, and the vast majority of it would have to be private money, not public money, in any case (perhaps an 80/20 ratio).
The French rail system, SNCF, gets 70% of its financing from private capital, with govt. guarantees. This could be done here as well.

In 1992 we (our group) incorporated the APHSR, the Atlantic and Pacific High-Speed Rail Corp., with the goal of building and operating the coast-to-coast mid-USA line from DC/Baltimore to San Francisco. We get polite letters from the politicians, but little else.

If you believe this should be done, stop "bemoaning" and start contacting all the political representatives you can get hold of, locally, regionally, and nationally. The political machinery does not respond to leadership, only to a groundswell of public support and interest. Let your voice be heard.

J. Snyder
Chairman, APHSR
106 Ashley Drive
Shepherdstown, WV 25443 USA
[phone]

[mudchicken]

I hope I live long enough to see it happen. For all the noise generated, mating elephants would be easier to get results...

[Anonymous]

I would love to see HSR in the USA, and here in Canada. But I know it isn't feasible. You can't compare these countries to Japan and Europe. There, the distance between cities are very short. The airplane is hardly competition for the train. The train is more convinient there, because the system is more established. Also, the time it takes to get to the airport and wait in line and fly the 200 km, you'd be already at your destination if you had taken the train.

However, that's not the case here in North America. While small sections of HSR (Northeast Corridor, Florida, between Edmonton - Calgary) is possible, cross-country HSR is not very realistic. Even if you took the Acela Express at its top speed on brand new tracks from New York to Los Angeles, it would still take about 3 times as long as a plane. Seeing that the cost of plane and train tickets are about the same in North America, the rail is hardly competition for the plane, especially in long distance runs.

Here in Canada, there's a train, called the Canadian. It goes from Toronto to Vancouver in 3 days and 3 nights. 99% of its travellers take the train for pleasure, not for the purpose of getting somewhere. My point is, rail in north america (long distance at least) is becoming more of a tourist attraction, rather than a form of transportation. This may be sad to hear, but it's the har***ruth.

[Anonymous]

Everyone at this web site knows I support HSR. However, I think it would be best to concentrate on building HSR between the four major population areas first, with a line or two on the west coast. I have even drawn lines on a map of the United States dealing with county population using the 2000 Census. The dark blue color counties have population larger than 100,000. Surely we can build something similar and close to these lines. My map is basically a parralegram with a line from the NEC to Chicago, to Texas, to Florida, and back, around 4,500 miles. I have added other lines which are bascially branches off the backbone parralegram. Some lines on my map are duplicated, I drew them to show that there are choices, for example we really don't need two lines running from Texas to Florida/Georgia, one lline will do. Its the same with the east coast line, one line will do. I prefer a line down to Raleigh and then west to Charolotte on the way to Atlanta(which by the way is not drawn on my map).

As for the price, I have come to the conclusion after serious study that HSR will run around $15 million a mile, less in rural areas and probably more in urban areas. As one can readily see on my map, the population of counties are not very great on the Great Plains and in the Rocky Mountains, whereas east of Kansas City and Dallas the population is quite dense, enough to support HSR.

As for distance, each leg of my parralegram will be in the neighborhood of 800-900 miles. Most of the branches are below 600 miles. Considering that a HSR TGV type train averages over 150 mph, with speeds up to 186 mph, each leg can easily be traveled in 6 hours or less. One trainset on each leg can make 4 trips in a day, two trainsets can make 8 trips in a day, three trainsets can make 12 trips in a day. Instead of the daily service we have today, we can have service in each direction every 2 hours.....Great! This is airline service frequency!

If we built every line I drew, the distance is only 9,000 miles. Cut a few duplicated lines, and the distance will be close to 8,000 miles. Maybe the feds should just build the parralegram and let the states build lines to it. A lot of ifs. But 5,000 miles of HSR rail @ $15 million per mile is $75 billion, 9,000 miles of HSR rail is $135 billion.

I SUPPORT HSR SO MUCH, I SUPPORT A MORATORIUM ON HIGHWAY AND AIRPORT SPENDING FOR TWO YEARS TO BUILD THIS NETWORK. Once it is built quickly, we won't need to spend so much on highways and airports.....

http://homepage.mac.com/donclark/.Public/DonHSR.jpg

[Anonymous]

Mr Snyder,
If you would care to see all my e-mails to my Congressman Henry Hyde on this very subject, I would be happy to send them to you. I do not just 'bemoan' on this forum, I moan straight to D.C. and if you have read any of my other postings on this forum, you would know I have urged others to do so too.

[Anonymous]

In addendum,
I would strongly urge readers of this forum to read Mr Don Clark's postings on this subject. This is a man who posts facts and not just opinions. Read Ed's thoughts, folks this could be done, find your congressman's name and write. By the way Mr Snyder, who is your congressman.

[Wdlgln005]

I think the key to building a HSR system is to have state compacts & concentrate on key corridors, making sure it is done correctly. The NEC still need massive investment, and should not compete with other needs. The Midwest & Chicago hub is another key one. It should not take over an hour for a train to leave the metro area! The work on the Chicago-Detroit and Chicago-St Louis lines must be continued. I'd like to see another leg built Chicago-Indy-Louisville-Nashville. The Kentucky Cardinal was a big joke. Amtrak should have painted it blue & called the thing Thomas.

Next spring, Nashville will begin construction on the first leg of a commuter rail system. We haven't had Amtrak service since the Floridian stopped in the Carter years! It's been fun to see the outer counties pick up their share of the 20% nonfederal cost. The first leg will run east from Nashville to Lebanon, TN, on the tracks of the Nashville & Eastern. THe track thru the mountains east of there have been torn up so there is no direct route to Knoxville.

The powers that be here re looking for a name for the new service. So far, they are undecided between T-Rail or T-Rex. What do you think??

[RudyRockvilleMD]

I am in favor of high speed rail where it is practical. You need a method to credibly predict ridership. In order for high speed rail to be effective the door-to-door travel time must be equal to or less than that of air travel for the same journey. Trips should be no more than 400 miles, or 500 miles with faster trains. Stops should be few and widely spaced. You need motive power that can accelerate rapidly, and whose top speed is 180 mph or more. At the present time this would dictate the use of electric locomotives since there is no off-the-shelf internal combustion motive power capable of this high a speed or acceleration that I know of. Aside from highly populated corridors high speed rail in the United States is more of a never-never land,

[Anonymous]

Glad to see the comments, a positive sign. I don't think the long-distance argument against US HSR is valid (icetrain)--Europe will have an HSR one of these days that will take passengers overnight to Moscow from London--comparable to DC-SF in US. Lots of cities enroute. Germany is getting rid of all intra-German flights as a matter of State policy. Wake up and smell the coffee....

Remember there are three phases to every project:
1. It won't work
2. It will cost too much money
3. I thought it was a great idea all along.

(I've experienced all three in the projects I've done, incidentally)

Mr.Don Clark's ideas are good, a sensible starting point. But we need a whole national network, why not plan for it from the start? As Enrico Fermi once said, "we know our plans are crazy, but are they crazy enough?" HSR travel can beat the pants off the flying cattle-cars any day of the week, for safety, comfort, city-to-city convenience, and travel time and cost. AMTRAK even does modestly well in the NE corridor, living on a shoestring.

For Mr. Glen Woodle: Given all the past wrangling, why not bow to a historic transportation corridor and call it the Natchez Truce?

ScottyDog: Send me your emails [e-mail]. My congresspersons are Sen. Byrd (who funded my project to save the Shepherdstown RR station, here where I live in WV), Sen. Jay Rockefeller (the old oil family, not much interest in competitor rail there), and Congresswoman Capito, rep. the 2nd WV district (of three, all gerrymandered east-to-west)..

J. Snyder, AAAS, ASCE

[vsmith]

Why can I take a TGV from Lyon to Paris (300+ miles) in 2 hours but it takes 3 1/2 hours to go from LA to San Diego (only 120 miles) via train?

Because NOBODY cares about HSR until the politicians get there greedy little paws greased with "reelection campaign fund contributions".

In the US the policy is "no lobbiest, no $$$, no project" or they said in the movie"The Right Stuff" ... "no bucks, no buck rodgers"

When go from the the land of the free to the land of the special interest? No one cares about doing things logically, or in THE PEOPLES interest. Its all special interest groups that push policy.

Why isnt Amtrack being pushed more as an alternative to jammed east-coast airports or crumbling west-coast freeways? Because the airlines, lousy service, cancelled flights and all, still wants ALL of your business regardless of what you want, and the auto and gas industry would rather see you have to drive that Ford Exploder (at $2 a gallon for gas) the 7 hours to Aunt Minnies house than leave that SUV parked somewhere while you relax (cant have that) on your trip.

Sure I'm Cynical, thats what happens when you keep your eyes open for too long.

HSR should focus on intercity for now (LA to SF, or NY to Chicago, for example), get that infrastucture built then extend nationally.

[Anonymous]

I still think HSR in North America is only feasible in certain corridors and between certain cities. Once these sections of HSR are well-used and prove succesful, then the plan of connecting the east and west coast can be looked at.

Mr Snyder, notice how in your statement you said "one of these days there will be a train that will take passengers overnight to Moscow from London". Now for how many years had France already have the TGVs and for how many years did Germany have the ICE already? Exactly! You have to start from the ground up.

High speed trains in Europs started between major cities (ie. Frankfurt - Munich, Berlin - Leipzig, Paris - Lyon, etc.). Then they expanded into "short" international serivce (Paris - Zurich, Brussels - Cologne, London - Paris, Amsterdam - Frankfurt, etc.). Now, with all these lines completely in tune and working in harmony with each other, maybe they can expand service to farther destinations, such as Moscow.

That's what we have to do in North America. Start with serivices such as New York - DC, Toronto - Montreal, San Francisco - Los Angeles, Chicago - Detroit. Then we can expand and connect these lines so that the Atlantic and Pacific is connected. To start out building 3 parallel lines from east to west is just not very realistic. What if it's a failure? What if no one wants to ride it? What about all the money wasted? That's why you have to start small, then grow big.

Just my 2 cents

[tree68]

Perhaps it would do well to look at the current airline model when considering the topography of a national HSR system. For Instance, could not Toledo be a hub? Feeders from Detroit and environs, Cleveland, Cincinatti, Indianapolis, Dayton, etc, etc. Just a thought.

Consider, too, that many travellers figure on a day for travel. When I'm headed to a conference, I figure in a travel day on either side of the event. If you can get me from central NY to Tampa in a day, I'm all set. HSR might get me into Las Vegas (another recent conference) from CNY in about a day. If the cost is comparable to flying, my employer isn't going to question it for a moment.

And I wouldn't be happy if I didn't mention the "toll road" concept - which is how the airlines work now. Apply the same concept to HSR and soon you have the Greyhounds and Gray Lines of the world putting HSR on the tracks, in addition to the "traditional" rail passenger folks we think of now.

[Victrola1]

Hauling people never pays. Tax subsidies to the airline industry are so large it should qualify their being administered by the Department of Agriculture.

Rail passenger service in its glory was heavily subsidized by mail and express. The 19th century rail system was never built just to move people. It would have been economically impractical without freight.

What is the market for high speed, light weight, time critical freight to move over the same system? 200+ MPH should make every major market between St. Louis and the Atlantic overnight points. Fed Ex and all the rest of the fly guys do not haul coal for a living. Those little packages are worth advertising for during NFL games.

What was true 150 years ago remains so today. People alone will not make it go.

[dehusman]

If France funds its railroad with private funds, then why is the APHSR bothering to write all those letters to Congress? If it can be done with private funds, raise the money and build the railroad.

The real answer is it can't be done without government funding. BIG government funding. Big government funding forever.

[Anonymous]

Many good points. Yes, gummint must be involved. True, passengers alone won't do it--that is why we plan to have trains daily between, say, ten pm and 6 am that haul mail and express exclusively (as the SNCF does). Like the original passenger trains (and AMTRAK too) mail and express will be a crucial underpinning of the financing to operate. Even so, such service won't be any more "profitable" than an airline is now--which is zilch, as we see. A basic service has little margin for profit, esp. when the costs are high as in rail service. But private operating companies can do it better than a gummint behemoth, we believe.

Fast freight is a realistic possibility. That will have to be part of the planning, but that, of course, brings the HSR into direct conflict with the existing rail lines, which haul about 40% of the intercity freight currently. HSR can do better than that, and faster than the trucks--another entity that doesn't want its rice bowl broken by HSR, nor does it want to lose its grotesque subsidies from the taxpayers.

The system must be built, opened, and operated incrementally--so that each segment operates effectively, and each new increment piggybacks on the ones built--as Icetrain suggests.

But nothing can happen until and unless gummint makes it possible. AMTRAK presently has a legally exclusive mandate to operate interstate passenger trains, which precludes anybody raising money or doing anything else.

A basic problem is the massive subsidy for oil use (not true in Europe), with cheap gasoline, that does not come close to paying its true costs of use. This suppresses transport alternatives.

The world passed its peak of oil production three years ago, in AD 2000, according to the experts in the ASPO (Assn. for the Study of Peak Oil). Time to create practical alternatives, which will take time and financing both public and private. Hence the need to get Congress off the dime.

The heavy dependence on cheap oil of the past century and a half is headed for the scrapheap of history. Time for some new thinking.

J. Snyder
Chairman, APHSR

[oltmannd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Victrola1

Hauling people never pays. Tax subsidies to the airline industry are so large it should qualify their being administered by the Department of Agriculture.

Rail passenger service in its glory was heavily subsidized by mail and express. The 19th century rail system was never built just to move people. It would have economically impractical without freight.

What is the market for high speed, light weight, time critical freight to move over the same system? 200+ MPH should make every major market between St. Louis and the Atlantic overnight points. Fed Ex and all the rest of the fly guys do not haul coal for a living. Those little packages are worth advertising for during NFL games.

What was true 150 years ago remains so today. People alone will not make it go.

You absolutely, positively, have it nailed! High speed freight service would CREATE a new market, the same way FedEx CREATED the market for overnight letters.

The other missing igredient for HSR is a feeder network. Outside of the NEC, Chic, and Calif., a transit/suburban rail feeder network does not exist. So, the Japanese/European service model would have to be adjusted to fit the autocentric/suburban sprawl of the US.

-Don (who is 47 yrs old and is still hoping to see some sort of HSR in the US before he dies - what a Pollyanna!)

[vsmith]

I think we should all remember that when we point to Japan or Europe as models for American HSR we should be aware that they have been concentrating on HSR since 1945! Thats a 55 year head start to overcome.

The infrastructure needed here is something I think is undo-able for purely socio-political reasons, no one will stick their neck out and take a stand. Earlier this year Caltrans (the people out here responsible for the interstates and freeways) announced plans to widen a badly overcrowded freeway her in LA. The response was so violently negative that the idea was shelved, now they worried that ANY changes will be NIMBY'd to death by people complaining to their representitves. A much needed Orange County airport got NIMBY'd to death, the residents would rather slug it out in a 2 to 3 hour drive to LA international than have the airport in "thier" backyard. Of course when they get to LAX they complain about how crowded it is. A light rail system in OC was also voted down, I think it was by the NIMBY's who were afraid that the "people of a lesser economic bracket" would take the trolleys down to their onclaves of privilege. (OC is a REALLY screwy place)

While we here were building interstate highwaysat the behest of the trucking lobbies during the 50's and 60's, Europe and Japan were focusing on improving an already effecient rail system. No one would allow them to build "freeways" thru the hearts of their major cities so none were built until the late 60's. Meantime their trains got faster, they learned to seperate their frieght lines from the HSR lines and everyone living there just got used to not having to own a car and taking the train.

Its a hugely different mindset from the wide open spaces of the US. New York City is the closest comparison. The rest of us live spread out all over the place. HSR will work but it has to overcome the hurtles of an airline industry that wants a monopoly on travel even as they are bleeding cash and bankrupcy, and an appethetic government that would just assume if you cant afford to fly, then you're a nobody. Its really ridiculous.

No one in our government even wants to think about rebuilding our infrastructure, even as billions of $ are sent overseas. I guess it will take a few major bridge disasters, some dam failures, or a couple more major blackouts to get them to consider the idea. Then they wont want to pay for it.

OK, meandering rant is over, back to pushing my rock up the hill.

[mudchicken]

VSMITH:

Pacific Electric won a battle but lost the war over there in Southern California in the late 1950's vs. GM and Firestone plus others in a now classic lawsuit about collusion to supplant the PE red cars with GM busses. Interesting reading if you can find the book and published articles that even had the attention of "60 Minutes" in its early years.

Mudchicken

[vsmith]

I am very aware of that troubled history here in LA. Seen the 60 minutes story, PBS did a knock-out show on the subject a couple of years ago, I wish I could find that on tape. I still will never buy a GM product (but mostly cause they build ugly-lousy cars)

Its taken 50 years for people to pull thier heads out and realize what a priceless commodity we lost went PE was destroyed. I find it supremely ironic that the existing and proposed Metro light-rail lines are almost on top of the old PE rights of way.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Juniperhouse

The system must be built, opened, and operated incrementally--so that each segment operates effectively, and each new increment piggybacks on the ones built--as Icetrain suggests.

We finally have found common ground! And call me Will, please.

Now, let's start buildin! [;)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith

A light rail system in OC was also voted down, I think it was by the NIMBY's who were afraid that the "people of a lesser economic bracket" would take the trolleys down to their onclaves of privilege. (OC is a REALLY screwy place)

If you are talking about Ottawa-Carleton, you are totally right!

In 2001, our OC Transpo decided to start a pilot project light rail. Using existing freight lines not being used, they established a north-south service from nowhere to nowhere with 5 stations. The plans were to later on expand it to the airport, downtown, accross the river north to Hull and Gatineau, east to Kanata (where I live), and west to Orleans. All these areas already have rail-lines going through them, and not being used. They planned to double-track and electrify all these lines and build a complete light-rail system.

Saying the price was too high, this plan was quickly gotten rid of. Instead they planned to electrify and double-track the current section. But even this short little section 'costs too much' for them. So now, instead of expanding the network, they are thinking of shutting it down...

Once the light rail is gone, we are back to the Transitway. Hooray! [:(!] (sarcasm)
*Transitway is a network of bus-only roads <--- a big failure and waste of money
Other cities, don't follow Ottawa's model! Unless you want to see public transit ridership go down.... [V][:(!][xx(]

As you can see, I'm really angry about this! But I'm done, so...uhm...back to HSR

btw, if you want to see pictures of the light rail in Ottawa:

Click Here

[vsmith]

ICEman,

Sorry I was referring to Orange County, California, called locally, OC. Theres even a really bad TV show on the WB network called "The OC" ( it STINKS!!! ) And the OC down here is one of the screwiest places on Earth, When I worked down there, my impression was of a land of BMWs Hummer's Benz's, $1M homes where no one knows who there next door neighbors are and if they did they would consider them evil child molesters, a bunch of self-absorbed-self-rightious-self-concerned twits who drive with "I love dolphins" bumper stickers on there 2 car wide 9 mpg SUV's while complaining how hard there lifes are cause they cant go to the Celine Dion concert after dark because the OC Performing Arts Center is too close to Santa Ana and all those "gang banging foriegners" ( I heard this) might rob me and take my Benz from me" even thought Santa Ana is a good two miles away and perfectly safe. OC aint far enough from Pasadena for me. "The Heart of Whiteness" to paraphrase Joseph Conrad as a good friend of mine called his neighborhood after moving there. Now he's turning Orange around the edges, there drugging the water, I know it.

Sorry to hear you have similar problems with light rail in Canada.

PS I Apologize if any readers live in Orange County, OC is a nice enough place it just that when I worked there, I had to deal with a bunch of jerks, so my opinion got pretty tainted.

[Anonymous]

Yes, my map is a good place to start. We can always add more lines later, hopefully after the first lines are a huge success! When I ride Amtrak I have noticed that more than half of the passengers are going all the way and more. Therefore, I suggested building to the four major population areas east of the Rockies: the NEC, the Midwest, Texas, and Florida. The best hubs in my opinion are New York City, Chicago, Dallas, and Atlanta. We need to get this parralegram built first, adding legs off of it later, although I think its essential to finish all three legs into Florida out of Atlanta....from Dallas, Chicago, and Washington DC.

Why stop at Detroit from Chicago, why not go half way to Cleveland? And if we are going to go half way from New York City, why not go all the way to Chicago and through Detroit even if its a bit out of the way from Toledo? Sixty miles at 186 mph is around 20 minutes. Its the same with the other legs of my parralegram, especially to Atlanta. Atlanta is only two thirds of the way to Florida.

The map again:
http://homepage.mac.com/donclark/.Public/DonHSR.jpg

[Anonymous]

oh, that's OC...hehe

I actually watched that show on TV, only like the first 2 episodes, then it got repetitive and boring

but a lot of people in my school are obsessed with it <---- guys and girls!

[Anonymous]

I SENSE THAT VSMITH IS JUST A TAD FRUSTRATED BY THE "APPARENT" ATTITUDES IN THE USA AND IN GOVERNMENT TOWARD HSR AND INFRASTRUCTURE.

CLEARLY, THE INFRASTRUCTURE PROGRAM OF THAT LAST 60 OR SO YEARS HAS BEEN IN SUPPORT OF THE OIL INDUSTRY SPECIFICALLY, AND NOT AIMED AT ANY SORT OF TRANSPORTATION, ENERGY, OR ECOLOGICAL BALANCE. NOT ONLY THAT, IT HAS UNDERMINED US CITIES SEVERELY, WHICH HAVE HAD TO RESORT TO EXTRAORDINARY FINANCING PROCEDURES, WHICH HAS, IN TURN, FORCED EVEN MORE PEOPLE TO FLEE THE URBAN ENVIRONMENT. THIS, I SUBMIT, IS IMPRACTICAL AND DESTRUCTIVE OF URBAN CIVILIZATION, WHICH IS THE HEART OF WESTERN CIVILIZATION, AND HAS BEEN SINCE THE DAYS OF ANCIENT ROME.

FURTHERMORE, THE OILIGARCHS AND THEIR FRONT MEN IN THE POLITICAL REALM ARE EMBARKING ON COSTLY, RISKY, UNCERTAIN-OF-OUTCOME ASIAN ADVENTURES IN THE PURSUIT OF EVERY LAST DROP OF CRUDE (AND, OF COURSE, EXPANDED MARKETS, WHICH LOOK LIKE THEY WILL BE EXPANDED MARKETS FOR CHINESE/ASIAN MANUFACTURES, NOT AMERICAN OR EUROPEAN, AS THINGS ARE GOING).

WE ARE COMING TO THE POINT THAT THE PRIMARY AMERICAN EXPORT WILL BE WAR. IS THIS WHAT WE WANT?

YOU MIGHT WANT TO CHECK THE ASCE (AMERICAN SOCIETY OF CIVIL ENGINEERS WEBSITE). THEIR RECENT STUDY GIVES A GRADE OF ABOUT "D+" TO US INFRASTRUCTURE, WITH A HEFTY PRICE TAG, AS YOU WILL SEE, FOR CORRECTING THE SITUATION ACROSS THE BOARD.

IF WE DO NOT REVERSE GEARS AND START REBUILDING THE US AND ITS LONG-TERM INFRASTRUCTURE, WE WILL SOON FIND OURSELVES TALKING ABOUT THE COUNTRY IN THE PAST TENSE....

J. SNYDER

PS--VSMITH'S HISTORY IS A BIT OFF THE MARK. WHAT REALLY GOT HSR GOING WAS OLD MAN SHINJI SOGO IN JAPAN, WHO BAMBOOZLED THE JAPANESE DIET INTO BUILDING AN HSR (HE GAVE A COST ESTIMATE HALF OF WHAT WAS NEEDED), AND IT GOT GOING IN THE LATE 1950S, AND OPENED IN 1964. I RODE THAT SYSTEM--THE TOKAIDO LINE, BETWEEN TOKYO AND KYOTO (IT GOES FURTHER, TO OSAKA) IN 1971, WHILE I WAS ON LEAVE FROM THE ARMY IN VIETNAM. THE LINE HAS BEEN UPGRADED AND IS FASTER AND BETTER NOW THAN IT WAS 32 YEARS AGO.

YES, JAPAN IS A VERY POPULOUS ISLAND, AND THE US IS, COMPARATIVELY, LAND-RICH. BUT OUR SPRAWL POLICIES (OR IS THE ABSENCE OF A POLICY?) OF THE LAST 6O YEARS HAVE LED TO ENDLESS PROBLEMS, MANY OF WHICH CAN BE DEALT WITH (AND REVERSED) BY GOING IN AN URBAN-SUPPORT DIRECTION--WHICH MEANS WALKABILITY, LIGHT-RAIL, HSR AND GENERALLY MORE RATIONAL PLANNING.

[Anonymous]

I agree with you, Juniper. And a problem is that "Big Auto" (who happen to be real good friends of the oil industry, because no fuel cells are out yet, and companies are dragging their heels on hybrids) encourages this mentality.....one where the solution to crowded highways is more highways.....and one where people get the "bigger is better" mentality (if it wasn't for certain laws, everyone who could afford to would be driving tanks) And too many people believe a)that if the US gets into wars because of its policies, SO WHAT, they'll always win.....a kind of mentality that there are always just two sides and everything's black and white...just because Hollywood and even the Bible present the world that simply......and b)that it's always more FUN FUN FUN to GET AROUND in a LITTLE DEUCE COUP or a CUSTOM MACHINE, advocating some to SHUT DOWN transit systems....the group I'm kinda poking fun at, they wrote those songs BEFORE people realized such things as traffic jams and the point of saturation (which, except for a few remote places, has pretty much been reached all over the US, as well as around major metropolitain areas in Canada.

VSmith, there's an area like (Clockwork) Orange County around Montreal, called Senneville....big estates, use of Artisian wells and septic tanks (heaven forbid they have to share water with "the masses" of the rest of the island), and generally don't like outsiders. Before Senneville was swallowed up into the city of Montreal in 2002, they had a law prohibiting buses from running on their streets. However, a limited "taxibus" service is run to get around that....and possibly for the benefit of some servants or something. Only difference is Senneville is French speaking. But I guess it's pretty much an "OC" in many other ways.

~Ra'akone