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The Railroads will be paying more attention to trespassers

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Posted by CANADIANPACIFIC2816 on Monday, October 30, 2006 1:37 PM
 chad thomas wrote:

I would say the ice on which he stands has been cracking up for a long time.

Allan, it's fools like you that give railfans a bad name. Do us all a big favor and find another hobby.

Dittos!! I told him yesterday morning that he doesn't need to talk to ANYONE in the manner in which he implied. I got an e-mail response from him, the contents of which I will not repeat, but it was most certainly uncalled for. And while it is not too late for him to make an apology to all of us for his behavior, I doubt that he's man enough to do it.

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Posted by PBenham on Monday, October 30, 2006 4:18 PM
Getting back to the topic, NS and Amtrak will appeal this crackpot ruling, but it will be a while going through such a busy set of courts. It'll be settled some time around 2010. The Supreme Court ought to look this over, the last time I looked, trespassing was still a crime, minor, yes but it carries penalties, too. Then, too one is not supposed to profit from breaking the law, are they?
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Posted by route_rock on Monday, October 30, 2006 4:27 PM

  Snickers wow what a loon! I am ashamed he likes my road ( I also have jewish friends who would say oy-vey! to this knuckle head) So anyways this is sad the way legal issues are going ga ga. No offence to any soldiers out there but two guys claiming to be that stupid not to know that those wires were dangerous and we give them M-16's?

 

 We had a case here that made dateline ( Adrianne Reynolds murder in the Quad Cities) and the main suspect (the male one) claimed he was too stupid to understand what Guilty meant! Makes me want to drag people like this out in the street cover em in peanut butter and let the ddogs loose!

Yes we are on time but this is yesterdays train

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, October 30, 2006 4:43 PM

Highjacked the topic badly did we?

SIGH.

That money can never relieve the punishment sustained by the injuries inflicted by the electric wires.

I am not happy with the verdict against the railroad as it sends a wrong message to others who might consider trespassing to get a jackpot.

Whatever happened to the railcar below the trespassers after the nuking started? Did the voltage to into ground or along the rails and other cars until it disappaited?

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Posted by solzrules on Monday, October 30, 2006 6:41 PM

I am guessing that the voltage that injured the two lunatics probably wasn't enough amps to even warm up the rail....

The current would eventually find a ground through the spikes and tie plates. 

 

 

You think this is bad? Just wait until inflation kicks in.....
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, October 30, 2006 8:05 PM
Isnt those lines 700 amps? Or am I off way big?
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Posted by stmtrolleyguy on Monday, October 30, 2006 10:43 PM
If we increased the voltage in the lnes, this lawsuit would have solved itself.
I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but these two kids (and I do mean kids) did something stupid.  You don't just go climb up the side of some random tractor trailer do you?  I know these lessons are ones that you can only learn once, but there are limits.

The only other thing I could see is reducing the cash award, but having the railroad spend it on sinage warning of high current in the overhead catenary.  It may be pointless, and, assuming the boys are telling the truth, that they didn't know, good, that settles that.  And if they really did know better....a few million that could have been theirs, going instead to some signs they would have ignored anyway....now that would be torture.
StmTrolleyguy
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 1:16 AM

 stmtrolleyguy wrote:
If we increased the voltage in the lnes, this lawsuit would have solved itself.
I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but these two kids (and I do mean kids) did something stupid.  You don't just go climb up the side of some random tractor trailer do you?  I know these lessons are ones that you can only learn once, but there are limits.

The only other thing I could see is reducing the cash award, but having the railroad spend it on sinage warning of high current in the overhead catenary.  It may be pointless, and, assuming the boys are telling the truth, that they didn't know, good, that settles that.  And if they really did know better....a few million that could have been theirs, going instead to some signs they would have ignored anyway....now that would be torture.

In the old truck stop in Jersey City they do climb up there while you're asleep in the bunk. A quick cut of a power tool and they are in and no one the wiser until after breakfast. If yer smart you waited until you were in either Connecticut or Delaware before sleeping.

In a grim way, I second the power boost. I prefer those lines to hum and crackle threatening to fry anyone dumb enough to get up there. Pass a construction zone in the highway and pass multitudes of "POWER LINE" warning signs positioned precisely under each and every line.

It was stated earlier in the thread that one of the people overcame thier injuries to join the US Army and serve overseas. Did I read that right?

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Posted by JayPotter on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 4:04 AM
 solzrules wrote:

I am guessing that the voltage that injured the two lunatics probably wasn't enough amps to even warm up the rail....

It was approximately 12,000 volts; and the injuries might have occurred through arcing, as opposed to actual contact with the catenary.

Jay Potter

 

 

 

 

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Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 7:03 AM
 JayPotter wrote:
 solzrules wrote:

I am guessing that the voltage that injured the two lunatics probably wasn't enough amps to even warm up the rail....

It was approximately 12,000 volts; and the injuries might have occurred through arcing, as opposed to actual contact with the catenary.

Jay Potter

And I'm sure there were plenty of amps available, too (hundreds, thousands?).  If they had solidly contacted the conductor, and had a good path to ground, they would have ended up looking like "Debbie" in the movie "Addams Family Values."

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Posted by vsmith on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 10:19 AM
Now maybe I'm just uninformed about these things but are there or are there not NO TRESPASSING signs usually posted along RR ROWs, and isnt there an inherent understanding that climbing on top of someones elses RR cars is a clear violation of said trespassing laws, and is again inherently very dangerous in its own right, and that knowingly trespassing on top of these cars on an electrified ROW was not only trespassing but also not just dangerous but insanely dangerous?
 
Either the RR needs a new legal team or the courts need to stop pooling jury members from the Jerry Springer Show audience...
 
Is common sense dead in America?, Was Mike Judge right in his latest film? Are we truely on our way from Democracy to Idiocracy?
 
Appeal...now!

   Have fun with your trains

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Posted by Limitedclear on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 10:21 AM
 vsmith wrote:
Now maybe I'm just uninformed about these things but are there or are there not NO TRESPASSING signs usually posted along RR ROWs, and isnt there an inherent understanding that climbing on top of someones elses RR cars is a clear violation of said trespassing laws, and is again inherently very dangerous in its own right, and that knowingly trespassing on top of these cars on an electrified ROW was not only trespassing but also not just dangerous but insanely dangerous?
 
Either the RR needs a new legal team or the courts need to stop pooling jury members from the Jerry Springer Show audience...
 
Is common sense dead in America?, Was Mike Judge right in his latest film? Are we truely on our way from Democracy to Idiocracy?
 
Appeal...now!

One would normally say "Yes". Unfortunately, many of the "normal" rules don't seem to apply (or be enforced) in PA.

LC

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Posted by e_m_frimbo on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 10:45 AM
Having been the jury foreman on a personal injury case some years ago, I was amazed at how freely people wanted to award money to a plaintiff who, in the opinion of most of us, did have a case. Apparently people think that because these cases usually involve insurance companies, it's OK to just throw money at the plaintiff. Don't they realize that it comes out of all of our pockets one way or the other?

There may well have been negligence involved, but the size of the awards seems greatly disproportionate, especially given that one of the young men is now fit enough to serve in the army.

One wonders if this means that someone can climb a utility pole, grab a powerline, and then sue the utility company. I think there is an analogy here.

Jerry
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Posted by miketx on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 11:08 AM

Bergie:

How many times are you going to lock Allen's  account for a week?  This has been going on for years with him, and is the reason I quit coming back.  These one week slaps on the wrist have done nothing.  You know as well as I that he'll quiet down for a while, then start up with the same old stuff again.

 

 

mike

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Posted by jwinter on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 12:09 PM
Netx thing you know they will want all rail car companies to put fences on top of railcars so trespassers don't fall off.  How dumb can this get!!!!
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Posted by samfp1943 on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 12:26 PM
 clarkbar04 wrote:
 BNSFrailfan wrote:
SOME D@MN BNSF MofW GUY ASKED ME. YOUR NOT A TERROST ARE YOU YESTERDAY. I SOULD HAVE SAID.....NO YOU F*CKN JEW. DO I LOOK LIKE A TERRORST. PEOPLE LIKE THAT REALY **** ME OFF. AND I WAS MORE THAN 2,000FT FROM THE TRACKS. SORRY FOR THE RANT.


There are some thoughts we keep in our heads, because our brain tells us not to say it.  This is called an inside thought.  Posting on the internet is no different.  You are an idiot.

“Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.”


-A. Lincoln

Here He goes[BNSF railfan] , One More Time!

    He is truly a masochist in search of a saddist. He needs to get off the merry-go-round he lives on....Rant, apologise. Rant, apologise. Hopefully one day he will understand he is getting nowhere quickly.My 2 cents [2c]

 

 


 

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Posted by Limitedclear on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 12:44 PM

Swat that bug...

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Posted by edbenton on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 1:01 PM
Better yet hit it with a MACK truck.
Always at war with those that think OTR trucking is EASY.
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Posted by Mookie on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 1:03 PM
I am so embarrassed!  We really aren't like that here in Nebraska - at least most of us aren't.  Disapprove [V]

She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw

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Posted by CANADIANPACIFIC2816 on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 1:48 PM

 Mookie wrote:
I am so embarrassed!  We really aren't like that here in Nebraska - at least most of us aren't.  Disapprove [V]

It doesn't really matter where this drip lives, he is an embarrassment to all of us in this hobby. And like someone has already said, he needs to get off the merry-go-round of rant - apologize, rant - apologize. He needs to break this cycle and stop doing it. Bergie already pointed out that his use of racial slurs can effect his future with others. And that's my My 2 cents [2c]worth.

CANADIANPACIFIC2816

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Posted by solzrules on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 2:02 PM
 JayPotter wrote:
 solzrules wrote:

I am guessing that the voltage that injured the two lunatics probably wasn't enough amps to even warm up the rail....

It was approximately 12,000 volts; and the injuries might have occurred through arcing, as opposed to actual contact with the catenary.

Jay Potter

 

12000V?  Wow, I bet that left a mark!Big Smile [:D]

Voltages that high tend to blow chunks of skin out similar to a gunshot wound.... they are very damaging.  Hopefully our darwins in training will not attempt a similar stunt again.  They are lucky they are even alive to get a cent of that money.

You think this is bad? Just wait until inflation kicks in.....
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 3:41 PM

I was taught that 440 volts can strike a person 10 feet from a open or unprotected building main box. That is bad enough.

At 12000 I would not want to survive the experience. =)

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Posted by Andrew Falconer on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 4:24 PM
 Safety Valve wrote:

I was taught that 440 volts can strike a person 10 feet from a open or unprotected building main box. That is bad enough.

At 12000 I would not want to survive the experience. =)

How does 12000 volt compare to being electrocuted by the Criminal Justice system in some states?

Because they were electrocuted the thoughts of the lawyers and jury might be that they should be allowed to get away with anything they want.

Andrew

Andrew

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Posted by Datafever on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 5:06 PM
 solzrules wrote:
 JayPotter wrote:
 solzrules wrote:

I am guessing that the voltage that injured the two lunatics probably wasn't enough amps to even warm up the rail....

It was approximately 12,000 volts; and the injuries might have occurred through arcing, as opposed to actual contact with the catenary.

Jay Potter

12000V?  Wow, I bet that left a mark!Big Smile [:D]

Voltages that high tend to blow chunks of skin out similar to a gunshot wound.... they are very damaging.  Hopefully our darwins in training will not attempt a similar stunt again.  They are lucky they are even alive to get a cent of that money.



I'm not sure that voltage is the key measure.  Electric fences for livestock enclosures run at something like 3000 to 5000 volts.  It produces one heck of a shock, but that's about it.
"I'm sittin' in a railway station, Got a ticket for my destination..."
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Posted by Limitedclear on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 5:13 PM

 

Holding down the fort from all those plaintiff attorney barbarians...

LC

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Posted by solzrules on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 10:12 PM
 Datafever wrote:
 solzrules wrote:
 JayPotter wrote:
 solzrules wrote:

I am guessing that the voltage that injured the two lunatics probably wasn't enough amps to even warm up the rail....

It was approximately 12,000 volts; and the injuries might have occurred through arcing, as opposed to actual contact with the catenary.

Jay Potter

12000V?  Wow, I bet that left a mark!Big Smile [:D]

Voltages that high tend to blow chunks of skin out similar to a gunshot wound.... they are very damaging.  Hopefully our darwins in training will not attempt a similar stunt again.  They are lucky they are even alive to get a cent of that money.



I'm not sure that voltage is the key measure.  Electric fences for livestock enclosures run at something like 3000 to 5000 volts.  It produces one heck of a shock, but that's about it.

Fencers are a little different.  They can be a high voltage but they can also run at a higher frequency.  I've gotten nailed on a 90 volt fencer that was operating at something like 300hz.  It felt like someone took a baseball bat and hit me in the back with it as hard as they could.   

You think this is bad? Just wait until inflation kicks in.....
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Posted by solzrules on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 10:19 PM
 Safety Valve wrote:

I was taught that 440 volts can strike a person 10 feet from a open or unprotected building main box. That is bad enough.

At 12000 I would not want to survive the experience. =)

440V won't arc ten feet out to you, but I wouldn't want to be near unprotected energized parts with voltage that high (it is a very deadly voltage because people think it is low compared to a power line or in this case a catenary line) unless I had insulating gloves on. 

I was taught that 1000 volts will arc 1 inch.  12,000 volts would arc 12 inches, but I certainly wouldn't want to test that one out.  It also depends on the humidity of the air - the more moisture in the air the more likely it is to ionize and pass an arc.

In this case a 12000 volt line would be more than enough potential to put all kinds of current through a human body.  25mA of current can kill you.  A 12000 volt line will push AMPS through you (2500mA).  These two putzes are lucky they didn't turn into hot dogs.   

You think this is bad? Just wait until inflation kicks in.....
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 10:43 PM
 Andrew Falconer wrote:
 Safety Valve wrote:

I was taught that 440 volts can strike a person 10 feet from a open or unprotected building main box. That is bad enough.

At 12000 I would not want to survive the experience. =)

How does 12000 volt compare to being electrocuted by the Criminal Justice system in some states?

Because they were electrocuted the thoughts of the lawyers and jury might be that they should be allowed to get away with anything they want.

Andrew

The CJS does not work perfectly. It will stumble at times and squash those unlucky enough to be underfoot. The best course was not to have gotten up onto those railcars. I dont have much faith in our broken justice system and Corperations will write off the losses once a final number is whittled down and paid to the lawyers involved.

Life goes on until another person gets nuked by live wire. The sleepy courts will mobilize the tons of paperwork while the lawyers gleefully scurry about drawn by money like moths to a flame. The nuked person should he or she survive is just a small pawn in our system. The forums fill with outrage and the world turns as usual.

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Posted by MikeSanta on Friday, November 3, 2006 9:27 PM
The main problem here is that they need to pass a CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT that says that if you're hurt trespassing on someone else's property it is ILLEGAL to sue!!! Pennsylvania is very backwards about things like letting a burgular sue the homeowner if he gets hurt breaking into someone's house. Where this affects us is that some railroad cop with nothing better to do starts hassling us or some hobo for being around the trains instead of staying in the yards and guarding them. Of course with a $24 million booby trap out there it makes sense for the railroads to do what BNSF does and have zero tolerance policies on hoboes and patrol the tracks out in the middle of nowhere.
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Posted by mudchicken on Thursday, April 12, 2007 3:42 PM
 Datafever wrote:
 solzrules wrote:
 JayPotter wrote:
 solzrules wrote:

I am guessing that the voltage that injured the two lunatics probably wasn't enough amps to even warm up the rail....



It was approximately 12,000 volts; and the injuries might have
occurred through arcing, as opposed to actual contact with the catenary.


Jay Potter




12000V?  Wow, I bet that left a mark!Big Smile [:D]


Voltages that high tend to blow chunks of skin out similar to a
gunshot wound.... they are very damaging.  Hopefully our darwins
in training will not attempt a similar stunt again.  They are
lucky they are even alive to get a cent of that money.





I'm not sure that voltage is the key measure.  Electric fences for
livestock enclosures run at something like 3000 to 5000 volts.  It
produces one heck of a shock, but that's about it.

IT'S NOT THE VOLTS, IT'S THE AMPS THAT KILLS YA!

Summary Judgement for LC - Case dismissed (Like that ever happens.)

 

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west

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