Shovel Nose

[BigJim]

Gotta love that shovel nose.

 I saw a F unit on another thread refered to as "Shovel Nose". That's a daggone good name for 'em. Just the other night I saw the F unit referred to as "bulldog" looking and about threw up. Where in the heck did that come from?

And "Shark nose"! OK people, everyone raise their hands, How many of you have ever seen a shark that swam perpendicular? Come on, don't be shy, raise your hands. I DIDN'T THINK SO!

I've seen the PRR T1 referred to as "Shark Nose"! Looks more like a WWII U.S. Fleet Sub to me.

[Randy Stahl]

I always called F units covered wagons , I don't think it mattered if it were an E or an F unit or an Alco, Baldwin etc. The T-1 just looks tough to me . We had an E-6 on a former employer and I recall it had quite a slanted front end , I'm not sure what analogy would work , all I know is from the front it looks good !!!  ( but it was still a covered wagon)

Randy

[nanaimo73]

The Shovel Nose name has been widely used for the White Pass GE locomotives.

[BigJim]

I always called F units covered wagons , I don't think it mattered if it were an E or an F unit

Yeah, that's what I have known the entire unit as too. What I was talking about and maybe didn't make clear was that the nose of the unit had been refered to as a bulldog look, which I don't see at all and totally disagree with..

[trainfan1221]

Mostly called Bulldogs and Covered wagons.  A shark nose was a very angular unit from Baldwin.

[Modelcar]

.....Just saw a photo recently of a "shovel Nose" diesel electric engine that was pulling the 1935 Chief {I believe it was}.  I suppose it was used up until they started the F and E type design units.  The front end design was very flat slightly rounded side to side and slanted forward.

[tomikawaTT]

IMHO the whole "shovel nose" thing started with some of those misguided eforts to "streamline" steam locomotives by hiding their curvy contours under sheet metal shrouds.  More than a few had front ends that looked like the hind side of a grain scoop.  Early EMD P-cabs followed suite.

As for "bulldog," I think that award should go to the Alco covered wagon cabs.  "Rounded rectangle," would be equally valid.

Anyone who has watched the Shark Week lineup on the Discovery Channel has seen sharks swimming at every possible angle.  None of them looked like a Baldwin locomotive (which, to my eye, looks more like a Moray eel.)

At least one modeler has built a live steam T1 with a nameplate on the nose - "The Admiral."  (If he was thinking about a WWII Gato class sub, "The Commander" would have been more appropriate - but less impressive.)

Chuck

[rrandb]

I beleive the "shovelnose" name was given to the Zephyr type engines. The nose is round, very slanted and looks simular to an inverted/insideout shovel. When EMD flatened the angle of the nose (think pug/bulldog) it now had a bulldog look to it compared to a TA-EA-EA1. When they were parked beside each other they were obviously different. The same type(FT/F) nose on a Baldwin was a "babyface".

[Anonymous]

Gotta love that shovel nose.

 I saw a F unit on another thread refered to as "Shovel Nose". That's a daggone good name for 'em. Just the other night I saw the F unit referred to as "bulldog" looking and about threw up. Where in the heck did that come from?

And "Shark nose"! OK people, everyone raise their hands, How many of you have ever seen a shark that swam perpendicular? Come on, don't be shy, raise your hands. I DIDN'T THINK SO!

I've seen the PRR T1 referred to as "Shark Nose"! Looks more like a WWII U.S. Fleet Sub to me.

It's very subjective. You have to remember that the guys who coined this names were probably not english lit majors nor industrial designers. Also, the lighting conditions present and the angle of view might have had something to do with it. When we see pictures in magazines, they tend to have optimized lighting, and an ideal perspective, whereas the men that worked around them all day, in various light and passing by view points saw quite another.

U-Boat is one that has always perplexed me, I mean I can VAGUELY see where they got that impression, but can only conclude that their perception must have been impaired by alcohol at the time. Which might carry over to some of the other names as well.

Crocodile?...sure, I can see where the name comes from, and I think the engines are cool to look at themselves, but again, why someone decided to apply that name to ANY locomotive seems questionable to me.

I've never heard anyone refer to an F unit as a shovel nose...The Burlington Zephyr was the "shovelnose"




I can see where the face of the engine resembles a scoop where the bottom edge would be the business end, while the upper, rounded end resembles the heel of a shovel where it is rounded to join with the handle.

As far as the "bulldogs" go,  well I guess they see the windshields as eyes, the headlight as a snout,  Where faces are concerned, all bets are off, since it has been shown that most people can look at a cloud (or a pile of rocks on mars) and think they see a face.

SO, what can you really do? scratch your head and wonder why they never thought about urine testing in the workplace decades earlier, I guess.

[nanaimo73]

  U-Boat is one that has always perplexed me, I mean I can VAGUELY see where they got that impression, but can only conclude that their perception must have been impaired by alcohol at the time. Which might carry over to some of the other names as well.
 

Doesn't the U-Boat name come from the U and the B in the U25B and U28B names ?

[Anonymous]

Doesn't the U-Boat name come from the U and the B in the U25B and U28B names ?

I have no doubt that what you say has a great deal of bearing on how the name was derived.

But I've also read that the name was inspired by the "submersible looking" appearance of the snout.

One probably contributed to the other, would be my guess.

[TrainFreak409]

I think the term "Shark Nose" is appropriate for the Baldwin RFs. Sharks have a fast, angular nose, usually with the point of the nose being closer to the top of the shark than the bottom of some species. Baldwin RFs follow the same suit...Just in a way that is practical to railroading.

See the resemblance?

Shark = http://www.aloha.com/~lifeguards/sharkint.jpg

Sharknose = http://www.litomysky.cz/N/imm/Dscn4992.jpg

[eolafan]

This is what most around here refer to as a shovel nosed diesel, not the F units you refer to.

[Poppa_Zit]

This is a shovelnose:

 

It was owned by the B&O and assigned to the Chicago & Alton RR's Abraham Lincoln passenger trains in the early 1940s. It sits in a later incarnation at the St. Louis Museum of Transporatation.

[Modelcar]

....Yes, the rendition Poppa showed in his post is almost the same type of design I'm referring to used on the Chief back in 1935....Shovel Nose in design is the description I've seen in print regarding it quite a few times.

[coborn35]

Gotta love that shovel nose.

 I saw a F unit on another thread refered to as "Shovel Nose". That's a daggone good name for 'em. Just the other night I saw the F unit referred to as "bulldog" looking and about threw up. Where in the heck did that come from?

And "Shark nose"! OK people, everyone raise their hands, How many of you have ever seen a shark that swam perpendicular? Come on, don't be shy, raise your hands. I DIDN'T THINK SO!

I've seen the PRR T1 referred to as "Shark Nose"! Looks more like a WWII U.S. Fleet Sub to me.

It's very subjective. You have to remember that the guys who coined this names were probably not english lit majors nor industrial designers. Also, the lighting conditions present and the angle of view might have had something to do with it. When we see pictures in magazines, they tend to have optimized lighting, and an ideal perspective, whereas the men that worked around them all day, in various light and passing by view points saw quite another.

U-Boat is one that has always perplexed me, I mean I can VAGUELY see where they got that impression, but can only conclude that their perception must have been impaired by alcohol at the time. Which might carry over to some of the other names as well.

Crocodile?...sure, I can see where the name comes from, and I think the engines are cool to look at themselves, but again, why someone decided to apply that name to ANY locomotive seems questionable to me.

I've never heard anyone refer to an F unit as a shovel nose...The Burlington Zephyr was the "shovelnose"




I can see where the face of the engine resembles a scoop where the bottom edge would be the business end, while the upper, rounded end resembles the heel of a shovel where it is rounded to join with the handle.

As far as the "bulldogs" go,  well I guess they see the windshields as eyes, the headlight as a snout,  Where faces are concerned, all bets are off, since it has been shown that most people can look at a cloud (or a pile of rocks on mars) and think they see a face.

SO, what can you really do? scratch your head and wonder why they never thought about urine testing in the workplace decades earlier, I guess.

The "U" stands for universal, and boat was just  a moniker.

[BaltACD]

This is a shovelnose:

 

It was owned by the B&O and assigned to the Chicago & Alton RR's Abraham Lincoln passenger trains in the early 1940s. It sits in a later incarnation at the St. Louis Museum of Transporatation.

The rendition of B&O engine #50 is a modification of the original configuration which was just a simple (and ugly) box cab arrangement.



The Burlington Pioneer Zephyr was the 'original' shovel nose arrangement; several of the early Zephyr trainsets use the shovel nose arrangement until it was realized that it made locomotive cab occupants vunerable in road crossing accident.  EMD was concurrently developing the sloping nose of the early E-units as well as the 'Bulldog' nose used on the FT's as well as succeeding F-units.

[mudchicken]

Poppa is referring to Santa Fe's 1 & 1A (Amos & Andy) and B&O's 150 and 151 of similar heritage, the first of EMD's twin engined E-units....