I've been a railroader for 8 years and a 3rd generation Conrail man. - Conductor, RCO Operatior, Training Conductor/RCO Operation, Yardmaster, and Trainmaster. Philadelphia is notoriously slow at promoting Engineers, so I haven't gotten my Engineer ticket yet. And now that I'm management, I probably won't.
It's a tough life. I've missed countless Birthdays, Thanksgivings, and Chirstmases. I've had rocks thrown at me, and been shot at. I've walked trains, in the dead of night, blazing sun, pouring rain, and driving snow. I've seen 2 co-worked injured so badly, they can't return to work. 10 others had time-loss injuries, but have returned to work. And worst of all, I've buried one co-work killed on the job.
There have been months that I haven't seen my wife more then a few hours. There have also been months when work was slow, I saw TOO much of her.
It is a strain on the family, especially at the beginning. I know many divorced co-workers. On the other hand, I have also have many co-workers that have life-long marriages.
I've also made a lot of money. For the most part, I work with a great bunch of guys, who when the chips are down, will give you the shirt off thier back. We really are a family. And there's nothing like the feeling of seeing the little kids waving as you go by.
Be wary of your reputation. Railroaders gossip worse then old women. Not everyone will know your face, but everyone, and I mean everyone will know your reputation.
You don't have to kiss the Yardmasters, Trainmasters, and Dispatchers tooshies. But being on good terms with them can prevent a lot of headaches.
Know your rules and union agreement. And know what the jobs do. If you don't know, don't be afraid to ask questions. Better to look stupid by for asked the question, then to do something really stupid, because you didn't know and didn't ask.
Oh and the higher up you get promoted, the more BS there is to deal with.
Nick
Take a Ride on the Reading with the: Reading Company Technical & Historical Society http://www.readingrailroad.org/
Remember it's YOUR train, not the hoghead's, dispatcher, or anybody else. YOUR name is at the top of the trainlist.
YOU tell the engineer what to do and when (since it's YOUR *** between th' cars!!). Ask if you questions. These guy's know alot of stuff. I've learned hand signals from several different railroads!
...I don't think they teach alot of hand signals anymore, but if you can find someone who knows them it wouldn't hurt to learn them. There are times when you really don't want to advertise what just happened over the air waves!
Learn the lingo. If someone tells you to line the "Tiger Tooth" you might want to know what that is.
KNOW THE GCOR. It might save your job, and hoggers will respect someone more if they KNOW what they're talking about.
IF YOU KNOW THE GCOR, THEN LIVE BY YOUR AGREEMENTS! BE ACTIVE IN YOUR LOCAL!
MAKE SURE YOU VOTE IN LOCAL ELECTIONS. DON'T LET OTHER PEOPLE CONTROL YOUR LIFE AND YOUR FUTURE.
MANAGERS ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS. THEY HAVE A JOB TO DO AND SO DO YOU.
And lastly....HAVE FUN! IT'S NOT A JOB, IT'S A CAREER.
First, remember the old saw that one bad apple will spoil the entire barrel.
You will run into bad yardmasters, bad trainmasters and jerks as superintendents.
But the flip side is you will also meet really good yardmasters, trainmasters, and excellent supers.
The good guys do outnumber the bad, trust me.
As was pointed out, most of the guys you work with will give you the shirt off their back, a place to sleep and buy you a few meals if you down and out…but they also expect you to do the same for someone else.
The engineer works for you, but…
He also has been in your shoes, has been around long enough to know who to trust and who not to.
He knows most of the tricks that will make your job easier and safer.
He has been there and done that, so use his knowledge to keep both of you safe and happy.
If you don’t know, ask.
Yes, you might be asking a silly question, but it beats getting hurt or fired.
Yes, you will get picked on, mercilessly, you will get a nickname that is not too friendly, and you will be expected to joke and pick back…the joking “insult” is standard railroad humor, don’t take any of it personally.
And we can’t stress this enough…ask questions.
A lot of what you assume is right is, in fact, not the way things really work out here.
Some old heads will treat you as an intruder, but most will answer your questions, because that is how you learn the jobs…no school room training or student trips can ever cover it all, only first hand experience will teach you what you need to know, so don’t be afraid to ask the guys around you what to do…even if you’re the conductor, remember, your engineer, and often your brakeman have years of experience on you, they are a source of knowledge, use that knowledge to make it work for all of you.
Know the rules, you will work under the GCOR…keep it with you, read it, know it as much as you can, because somewhere along the line, in the first year or so, you will run into a yardmaster or trainmaster who will recognize you as a newbie, and try and get you to violate a rule or two just to speed up the job.
Don’t let them buffalo you into doing something you are not sure about…make them order you to do it, and make sure you let them know you are doing it under protest…that covers your fanny if something goes wrong.
There will be days when you work your fanny off.
You will have to line what seems like every switch in the yard, tie a dozen hand brakes, make a dozen couplings, and lace up air hoses on a long, long train in the middle of a thunderstorm.
But there will also be days when you might line two switches in an eight hour shift, so…
You will screw up somewhere along the line…the odds are way too much in favor of you making a mistake not to, so buy job insurance.
See your union rep for that.
If you are married, understand that your wife will have to be the one who does all the getting the kids to school, shopping, most of the bill paying and home management…cut her slack and buy her roses every once in a while.
She will be under as much stress as you are, and not too thrilled with it all, even though the money is good, it doesn’t buy happiness.
Lastly, you will know in a week or two if this is for you or not…if it isn’t, don’t stick it out.
You will end up bitter and angry, or getting hurt or hurting someone else.
Nothing out here is worth getting hurt over.
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Your world will revolve around your ability to sleep when you can and stay awake when you can't!
dd
GOOD WORDS ED !
I couldnt agree more,you always seem to be good at giving good advise...Thank You, Danny
Hi Anthony,
My uncle Lynn Thomas works out of Roseville on the Dunsmuir pool. I'm going to see him next week. Mabee you guys will work together.
Oh, and welcome to the board.
When I hired out, one of the instructors told us:
- You WILL hit and kill someone- You WILL have a coworker killed- You WILL be injured
From an old head (that I greatly respect):
- Quit- Don't live on your overtime- Don't put your life on hold for the railroad.
Alot of these post describe your relationship with your engineer. According the rule book the conductor is in charge. Practically, however, that is only true while making switching manuvers.
Out on the open road, you are a figure head, and subject to the whims of the engineer. He controls the speed, and there-fore the trip. I've also seen engineers purposely use rough train-handling, so air hose come apart, just to make the conductor has to walk the train.
If something goes wrong, both the engineer and conductor are likely to go down together. So pay your job insurance.
You will get a nickname, everyone does. So are more flattering then others. I've been called: Slick Nick (for my switching ablity); Nick at Night (because I worked 3rd shift for many years); 3 Gs (I'm a third generation railroader); and Nick the Di** (when I became management, and some people felt I was unfair to them).
nbrodar wrote: Alot of these post describe your relationship with your engineer. According the rule book the conductor is in charge. Practically, however, that is only true while making switching manuvers. Out on the open road, you are a figure head, and subject to the whims of the engineer. He controls the speed, and there-fore the trip. I've also seen engineers purposely use rough train-handling, so air hose come apart, just to make the conductor has to walk the train. If something goes wrong, both the engineer and conductor are likely to go down together. So pay your job insurance. You will get a nickname, everyone does. So are more flattering then others. I've been called: Slick Nick (for my switching ablity); Nick at Night (because I worked 3rd shift for many years); 3 Gs (I'm a third generation railroader); and Nick the Di** (when I became management, and some people felt I was unfair to them). Nick
I totally disagree with this post.
Being an engineer for UP for several years, I know it's his train.
Yes there are some guy's out there that'll bunch a train then let it run out just to break a knuckle. I've had two do it to me. They assumed that I didn't know what they were doing, but being a third generation railroad, well I guess I was actually paying attention when me dad was telling those "stories of the road". That's when you tell your hogger he's got 3 choices: (1.) You can stop that crap right now, and it never happened. (2.) You can break the train in two and when we tell the dispatcher we're in two we'll have them send a limo out for you. or (3.) You can stop the train and we'll roll around in the ballast for awhile until one of us wins, period. Now I'm a union officer so I really don't like truning anything over to management. This sort of thing should be handled within the brotherhood. As far as option (3.) I'm a big guy so we've never used this option.
It doesn't take a real smart manager to download an engine and figure out that the "break in two" was intentional.
And by the way, If you think an engineer is unsafe or your personalities continually clash, you have the right, on UPRR, to talk to your union rep and MTO about not being called with that person. Like I said I've had this happen to me, and it sucks, but when it's coming down to a physical altercation (in which you both get fired) you need to tell someone something.
Main thing is to work safe, don't hurry, understand the rules, keep rulebook updated.Some of these rules out there are crazy but follow them or else good way to get fired. Understand that even if you do follow everything to the letter, it still will not be good enough for the company officers who opt test. They are required to opt test 4 different crews per day. Also learn your union contract and what work is outside your scope of duties where you will be entitled to a pay claim. Good way yo makes good extra money. Do not obtain an ego, just do your job treat it as that and you will do okay espically in relation to coworkers. Best wishes.
Anthony Scalleri wrote:I just hired on for train service with Union Pacific in Roseville. Anybody got any advice? I go to train school in Sacto (most likely modoc) october thirtieth. Any advice, widsom, cynicism, things to watch out for and expect? Let me know, it'd be greatly appreciated.
A lot of good advice. Let me add a few things without taking away from the wisdom already expressed.
Railroading is about handling people. Treat each with respect. Use good judgement with people. Take time to learn what they have to teach you. It could save your life. Lessons like, make sure the slack has really run before you step into the zone to tie those hoses. Basic rule, but if you have a 60 car train with 35 loaded propane tanks that slack takes several moves to shake out...that nice old conductor you treated with respect will help you there...
Don't be a carpet. Learn to differentiate between a good natured ribbing or nickname and one which is hurtful. I nearly had a knockdown with an old (40+ years) conductor who insisted on calling me "Junior" when I worked with him. Even after I was his engineer! If he was a more decent guy I probably would have let it go...
Follow the rules. They are there to keep you out of trouble. If you have a question, ask. Don't be afraid to ask. Better to ask before you are on your own. Even then, call the DS. Better to ask than find out the hard way.
Learn the railroad. Memorize signal locations, interlockings, important milepost locations, yard track numbers especially anything that doesn't flow naturally. There are quire a few places where track numbers don't make sense due to rebuilding, relocation or past mergers. If you know your railroad, nobody will be able to get one over on you, not supervision, not the FRA. I can remember well my qualifing ride for my promotion to engineer with the cranky old Division Road Foreman. As we came off the big (2% for 6 miles) hill (25mph) and into a higher (40mph) track speed on an approach medium indication at the distant signal I started winding the dynamic up higher. We had a short heavy train. He gave me a look and growled "Hey this is 40 here". As we rounded a bend and crossed the river we could see the home signal a mile away showing medium clear (medium speed 30mph). As we watched the signal cycled from medium clear to medium approach to stop signal twice and failed safe to stop signal. He said "S**t". I already had 10 lbs of air out and was in #8 dynamic by the time he spat that out. I then made the split to full service. We stopped about two cars from the signal. Train crews had been complaining about that signal problem for several weeks. Know your territory, it can save you.
Hope this helps a bit.
LC
nbrodar wrote: If something goes wrong, both the engineer and conductor are likely to go down together. So pay your job insurance. Nick
What is job insurance?
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Get the coffee and other things ready, you might need it for several people besides yourself that day. It is a little thing but might help form the basis of a good crew willing to stand up to the worst the workday can throw at em.
Settle the conflicts ON THE SPOT. Yes I come from trucking, not trains but when you have two people in a small cab with problems and bad feelings about something or each other... you need to fix it asap... or you will be eaten by the system.
You want your workday to be with people you can trust, not having to worry about so and so giving you a hard time. There will be fun and games.. if you search out postings on these forums you might see humor in the job. I recall one Engineer likes to drop a tool box while running out of the cab on the new conductor while approaching a crossing.
I refuse to go into the various options availible to a trucker to fix personal issues against another team driver or worker. They are similar to the railroads. I think lead piping and a quiet spot was one of them with very loud and forceful language added for effect as one option...
I particularly like the post about sleeping when you can and not needing it when you aint got time for it.
Never turn your back on a train leaving a yard you are standing in. One of the cars might be ready to cut you in half with a stray cable.
Murphy Siding wrote: nbrodar wrote: If something goes wrong, both the engineer and conductor are likely to go down together. So pay your job insurance. Nick What is job insurance?
We purchase job insurance through our unions and there a couple of other companies.
When we screw up (and you will!) or get a bad test from management. Depending on the severity of the incident, sometimes management will offer a deal. Say for example you misline a switch and run through it. They (Managerment) may come to me (a Union Officer) and say "...if he'll sign off we'll give him a level two instead of a level three, with no time off, six months probation," Then I'll call you and you decide weather or not to take the deal or go to a investigation.
If your an engineer and you get past a red block it's automatic 30 days off. So yu go home call your union rep and turn in a claim on your job insurance. Then you go home for 30 day's and your job insurance will pay you however much you bought per day (for me it's $250.00 a day).
Well worth the investment. We used to have hoggers run a red block at the beginning of deer season every year until they enough senority to get NOV. or DEC vacations!
OH the good ol' day's!!!
Job Insurance is just what it sounds like…
Insurance that pays your salary when you are off work “Fired” and serving days off suspended.
Fired is a relative term on railroads.
Unless you cause a major accident, that results in deaths and big losses, the normal discipline is to be given a set number of days suspended without pay, from 30 to 60, 90, and 180 days.
Depending on the rule infraction or the type of incident, days off can be an automatic discipline.
Running a red signal will get the engineer at least 90 days off, the conductor the same most places.
There are several benevolent associations that sell job insurance, and it is usually available through your union, the UTU does a brisk and profitable business this way.
zapp wrote: nbrodar wrote: Alot of these post describe your relationship with your engineer. According the rule book the conductor is in charge. Practically, however, that is only true while making switching manuvers. Out on the open road, you are a figure head, and subject to the whims of the engineer. He controls the speed, and there-fore the trip. I've also seen engineers purposely use rough train-handling, so air hose come apart, just to make the conductor has to walk the train. I totally disagree with this post. Being an engineer for UP for several years, I know it's his train.
nbrodar wrote: Alot of these post describe your relationship with your engineer. According the rule book the conductor is in charge. Practically, however, that is only true while making switching manuvers. Out on the open road, you are a figure head, and subject to the whims of the engineer. He controls the speed, and there-fore the trip. I've also seen engineers purposely use rough train-handling, so air hose come apart, just to make the conductor has to walk the train.
Zapp,
I didn't mean to suggest that all or even most engineers are this way. But it's an unfortunate fact, that it does happen. Especially to conductors with bad reps. Most engineers I know, have no problem with the conductor being in charge, providing he stays awake, knows where he is, what that next signal is, and isn't constantly yakking on his cell phone. It's the conductors that fall asleep as soon as they get on the engine, haven't a clue where they are or what that signal is, or don't hang the phone up, that have to worry.
I'm not sure where you work, but with our train make up, and the roller coaster profile of the division, it's relatively easy to pop an air hose, and not have it look intentional. Breaking a knuckle is something else. You break a knuckle, everyone and their brother comes out to see.
Murphy Siding wrote: [ What is job insurance?
Job insurance is suppose to pay you when you're held out of service. However, you have to read your policy closely. I know the UTU policy doesn't cover Rule G violations (that's Drugs and Alcohol), insuboardination (which seems to get tacked on to every charge sheet), theft (of property or money by falsifing timesheets), knowingly submitting a false report, and failure to report an injury. I also think, the UTU policy no longer covers stop signal violations - any unions guys out there know for sure?
4884bigboy wrote:Do you have to join the Union when you hire on the railroad?
If the railroad is a closed shop (as all of the Class 1s and many smaller roads are) then the answer is yes.
nbrodar wrote: zapp wrote: nbrodar wrote: Alot of these post describe your relationship with your engineer. According the rule book the conductor is in charge. Practically, however, that is only true while making switching manuvers. Out on the open road, you are a figure head, and subject to the whims of the engineer. He controls the speed, and there-fore the trip. I've also seen engineers purposely use rough train-handling, so air hose come apart, just to make the conductor has to walk the train. I totally disagree with this post. Being an engineer for UP for several years, I know it's his train. Zapp, I didn't mean to suggest that all or even most engineers are this way. But it's an unfortunate fact, that it does happen. Especially to conductors with bad reps. Most engineers I know, have no problem with the conductor being in charge, providing he stays awake, knows where he is, what that next signal is, and isn't constantly yakking on his cell phone. It's the conductors that fall asleep as soon as they get on the engine, haven't a clue where they are or what that signal is, or don't hang the phone up, that have to worry. I'm not sure where you work, but with our train make up, and the roller coaster profile of the division, it's relatively easy to pop an air hose, and not have it look intentional. Breaking a knuckle is something else. You break a knuckle, everyone and their brother comes out to see. Nick
I know what your saying, and yes they're (Engineers with blown up ego's) out there. I guess learning from those old heads I know where the lines are drawn.
If we have a pick up and we're running short on time, I enjoy having a conductor with enough gruff to say " high ball the pick up" and he'll take the butt chewing! It doesn't happen as much with these "new dudes". When I was a conductor, I used to love to mix it up with the trainmaster. I remember working the LGN41 (a local TSE that switched a Fina refinery in Big Spring, Texas. (12 hours+ tow in, 7 days a week $$$$)). It went on duty at 1600, and after you finished "pickling the train" and "tying up" it would be around 0600. Well this particular morning the MTO couldn't find the paperwork from the previous nights work and St.Louis (at this time that's where UP's clerk's were stationed) hadn't set the train yet. So retard calls me, at home, in the bed, violating my hours of service! I told him where the paperwork was (it fell behind his door!) and that he violated the HOS regulation and I was calling CMS to reset my rest and my local chairman to put a claim against him. He SLAMMED the phone on me. Now this was in 1997-1998. Remember those years for UPRR? The extraboard was depleted, and guess what, I wasn't rested! So the refinery didn't get switched that night and he never called anyone else at home until they were rested.
All Class Is, Amtrak, most Super Regionals and some Regionals are union shops. So you will have to join a union. Usually the United Transportation Union or the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers & Trainmen. On some roads you have a choice between the two, and some have only one or the other.
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