Re: Flashing lights and/or Rotating Beacons on loc

[locomutt]

I've been wondering if anybody knows (or cares) when railroads or industrial operators started using flashing lights or rotating beacons on locomotives. I would guess around the mid 1950's but maybe someone else could shed some light on this?(no pun intended)

locomutt [?]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by locomutt

I've been wondering if anybody knows (or cares) when railroads or industrial operators started using flashing lights or rotating beacons on locomotives. I would guess around the mid 1950's but maybe someone else could shed some light on this?(no pun intended)

locomutt [?]

I can't answer your question. I like the used of these light on locos because I think they helped at night for side views. I don't think they really helped much for an oncoming view but at night when the trains was near a crossing I think they helped some. Other lights along this line were the Graylight and the Mars light. They didn't have any effect on a side view but did for an oncoming view. Now the ditch lights have replace both of the later lights. Being a little old fashioned I would still like to see them used. (AND BRING BACK THE CABOOSE).

[tree68]

I can't speak for the history of the Mars light and its peers, but the Federal Beacon Ray, the original bubble gum machine, was created in 1948, according to an industry history I just read.

[Modelcar]

....Can't add to any original dates when these lights were brought to life but while working on a project in Kingman, Az...I used to have a chance to watch several passenger trains coming in and stopping at their Depot and some had Mars light and some had rotating lights...This was 1969. Of course that was a main line of the Sante Fe.

[edblysard]

Flashing beacon or rotating lights on locomotives are there to draw attention to them in yards.
When between cars down in a track, the headlight is blocked by the cars in the track.
The flashing light reflects off of the other cars in the yard, and can give the yard crews a good idea where the locomotive is.
We have very high intensity flashing lights on our MK1500Ds, for that very reason, it makes them easy to find in the yard at night, not only from the ground but from other locomotives and the tower.
Here at the PTRA, if you have a MUed set, the beacon is turned on, on the locomotive the engineer is operating from, and left off on the trailing unit so you know which end is occupied.
They are almost useless as warning devices to the public at crossings, the headlight and ditch lights "drown" them out, and most of the time, you cant see far enough on top of the locomotive to see the beacon anyway.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tree68

I can't speak for the history of the Mars light and its peers, but the Federal Beacon Ray, the original bubble gum machine, was created in 1948, according to an industry history I just read.

Bubble Gum? Isn't that litlle off the topic?

[Modelcar]

....In my watching the passenger trains coming into kingman as I noted above....I did note at that time they all had the Mars light.....Was that possibly to get the attention of passengers milling around on a platform at a depot, etc...and allow them to move behind the line to safety.

What I should have said in above post...as I remember, the freights had the rotating orange lights on top of the cab and the Mars light would be on the passenger trains.

[Anonymous]

As a teen growing up in the country right next to a busy Frisco mainline I remember the Frisco engines has Graylights. The beacon made a circle pattern that projected out in front of the loco, when the pattern was at the top, the light would shine up into the sky. During a chilly or cold night you could hear the engines coming a long way off. As they got a little closer you could begin to make out the "search light" shinning in the sky as it made its loop around the light. Many of the Frisco engines also had the yellow rotating beacons and some had the 4 bulb flashing kind. The bulbs for and aft would light then go out and the two side lights would light then go out. These did not rotate just alternate flashes. (I like the rotating ones better, but I understand the vibrations were not good for the inside moving parts.) The Frisco would have EVERY light on. I liked that. When many of the fields next to the track were pastures it made seeing the train on a moonless night much easier. And trust me on a moonless night out in the country (with no streetlights) IT IS DARK.

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Alaskaman

QUOTE: Originally posted by tree68

I can't speak for the history of the Mars light and its peers, but the Federal Beacon Ray, the original bubble gum machine, was created in 1948, according to an industry history I just read.

Bubble Gum? Isn't that litlle off the topic?

Bet your law enforcement posters will know what it is.

Mook

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

QUOTE: Originally posted by Alaskaman

QUOTE: Originally posted by tree68

I can't speak for the history of the Mars light and its peers, but the Federal Beacon Ray, the original bubble gum machine, was created in 1948, according to an industry history I just read.

Bubble Gum? Isn't that litlle off the topic?

Bet your law enforcement posters will know what it is.

Mook

Just wanted to give you something to chew on...[:D]

IC ran Mars-type lights in the 70s on freights, as did SP (as part of their unique 3 device lighting package). Those lights had a sort of wig-wag, figure-8 pattern. I also recall some lights on IC that didn't move - they alternated between the top and bottom lamp, much like ditch lights in intersection mode, but in one vertical housing.

[dharmon]

Does Amtrak still use the Xenon strobes on it's locos?

[dekemd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

QUOTE: Originally posted by Alaskaman

QUOTE: Originally posted by tree68

I can't speak for the history of the Mars light and its peers, but the Federal Beacon Ray, the original bubble gum machine, was created in 1948, according to an industry history I just read.

Bubble Gum? Isn't that litlle off the topic?

Bet your law enforcement posters will know what it is.

Mook

My first patrol car had one!

Derrick

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dekemd

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

QUOTE: Originally posted by Alaskaman

QUOTE: Originally posted by tree68

I can't speak for the history of the Mars light and its peers, but the Federal Beacon Ray, the original bubble gum machine, was created in 1948, according to an industry history I just read.

Bubble Gum? Isn't that litlle off the topic?

Bet your law enforcement posters will know what it is.

Mook

My first patrol car had one!

Derrick

While I was reading this, the Google ad on the right was telling me about strobe lights and Police Fire and EMS lights. Guess you gotta watch what you say!
Big brother is watching!

Mookie

[dharmon]

Now if Limitedclear's device flashes we're in there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Anonymous]

We ahd soem on the F7's we used to run, no wetaher their origanls or add ons, that beats me.

[zardoz]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

Does Amtrak still use the Xenon strobes on it's locos?

On Amtrak 7&8, plus on the Hiawatha service, there are no longer strobes on the trains, but the ditch lights flash alternately when the bell is on, same as on the Metra trains around Chicago.

locomutt:
When I started on the CNW in '73, there were no beacons on the units yet. Soon after, however, the damn annoying lights started to appear. Also, right around the time I hired on, the Mars lights were removed from the suburban train units. Only the passenger locomotives had them on the CNW, with two exceptions. There were two SD-40 locos from another railroad that the CNW bought. If memory serves, the unit numbers were 923 and/or 925. Those units were the only freight locos that I knew of on the CNW that had a Mars light

Ed mentioned that the lights helped the ground crew see where the loco was, and that is good. But the bright beacon flashing off the sides of cars or buildings would ruin my night-adapted vision, made it hard to see the dark ground (for motion reference), and made it hard for me to see the ground crew. I hated them beacon lights, but I never realized they were helpful to the ground crew.

[kenneo]

Flashing roof mounted lights, ditch lights or oscilating lights (Mars or Gyralite) are FRA mandated. An engine MUST have ditch lights unless excepted by permit (for each unit seperately and individually) and then only for historic purposes. The bubble gums were required by Feds until ditch lights were mandated.

Willamette and Pacific and Portland and Western use several GP9 and SD9 units from SP and use the oscillating lights. Mars and Gyralite equipment are much superior to ditch lights for crossing warning because the provide a flash of bright light and then complete "lack of light" which is very noticable to the human eye. Mars made these lights first for Police, ambulance and fire equipment.

Both Mars and Gyralight made figure 8 (layed on its side and also vertically) and the eliptical pattern (a circle that is flat on the bottom) used in later years. The figure 8 was standard for the red "Emergency Warning" light (when used) and also when used as a marker (both UP and SP on passenger trains - others probably too). At first, the figure 8 was used on the steam (SP and CBQ) and early diesels, but later was replaced with the eliptical because it was easier to maintain and has a much lower road failure rate. SP's F units had a triangular plate in the upper headlight that had a red on top and two whites layed horizantilally below, and it operated in a horizontal figure 8 pattern. You got four white flashes per side - 2 lights plus bottom loop and then top loop of pattern. Got your attention.

The comment by ZARDOZ about light polution while switching is very true. On the Oregon Division the yard crews operated with only the train indicators lit (the 2 small white lights that could also be made green or red - they are no longer on locomotives) for that reason. Then along came the FED with road dim, high and yard dim. Any time a locomotive was manned, it had to have its headlight on on both ends except for the end that was coupled to cars, if any. Accident rate went up because the hogger couldn't see what he was getting into. Sounds strange, but it is very very true. Even when you are looking away (as in opposite direction of direction that headlight is pointing) it ruins your night vision.

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

Now if Limitedclear's device flashes we're in there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[:0] Gasp!

moo

[Mookie]

Little off the subject, but point of interest - Really large Budweiser Truck has flashing yellow lights up and down the sides of the rear, plus regular flashing red lights. We saw it from about 1/2 mile away and wondered if it was a firetruck, an ambulance, maybe a garbage truck until we saw the Budweiser Beer logo! Something that well-lit should have a spigot on the side.

OO.....kie

[Modelcar]

....If they'd install a spigot...the cash register would be right behind it...

[Anonymous]

For Your Beer

Go Here:

http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7594

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

Little off the subject, but point of interest - Really large Budweiser Truck has flashing yellow lights up and down the sides of the rear, plus regular flashing red lights. We saw it from about 1/2 mile away and wondered if it was a firetruck, an ambulance, maybe a garbage truck until we saw the Budweiser Beer logo! Something that well-lit should have a spigot on the side.

OO.....kie

Must be the Budweiser Emergent Emergency Response team (BEER). Part of Bud's support of the homeland security program. Ensures that fresh, uncompromised American beer gets to the American people in times of need, so they won't venture out on the roadways or assemble in public locations that might be susceptable to terrorist attack. Undoubtably some frat house ran out of beer during a party necessitating calling them out.

[mistercivil]

I didn't see anybody mention this so I thought I better. Up here in Canada, (I don't know if it's the same in the US) you can tell when a yard switcher is remote controlled by the conductor because of the flashing yellow light.

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

Little off the subject, but point of interest - Really large Budweiser Truck has flashing yellow lights up and down the sides of the rear, plus regular flashing red lights. We saw it from about 1/2 mile away and wondered if it was a firetruck, an ambulance, maybe a garbage truck until we saw the Budweiser Beer logo! Something that well-lit should have a spigot on the side.

OO.....kie

Must be the Budweiser Emergent Emergency Response team (BEER). Part of Bud's support of the homeland security program. Ensures that fresh, uncompromised American beer gets to the American people in times of need, so they won't venture out on the roadways or assemble in public locations that might be susceptable to terrorist attack. Undoubtably some frat house ran out of beer during a party necessitating calling them out.

Ah-ha - you saw it too!

Moo

[dharmon]

.....911, What is your emergency?

.....Uhh Like we're out of beer. The keg is tapped man, it's awful, we got these people all over and they're getting outta control, you gotta do something!!!!

...stay calm sir, where are you calling from?

.....the Delta Chi house on Elm St. You gotta do something, like now!!!

.....please sir, stay calm, I'm alerting the Bud BEER team. They'll be there shortly.

.....thanks, you're a lifesaver

[locomutt]

Well, when I first brought this subject up,I was wanting to know if I put a rotating beacon on my o scale 44 tonner it would be prototype. But with all the fun going on I'm really enjoying it. I'm thinking I should put a tank car with a spigot right behind the loco and have it marked BEER and maybe the rotating beacon should be on the tanker and not the engine. Or was that MOOKIE'S comment? Oh well live and learn.

[locomutt]

By the way, what the heck is graylight? I'm figure whom ever means GYROLIGHT! I know what a MARS light is. My former firedepartment had them on the engine co's. I know of a drunk who ran his vehicle off the road due to a fire run. It seems tha the main line of the L&N ran along side the main road that our engines from one of our stations had to use. The pumper was making a run with all lights on(including the mars light)and had the siren going,and then hit the airhorns. The drunk swore he must have been on the rrtracks,because he thought a train was coming right at him. Said he was going on the wagon,he could'nt take that. Mookie that was not you was it!

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by locomutt

By the way, what the heck is graylight? I'm figure whom ever means GYROLIGHT! I know what a MARS light is. My former firedepartment had them on the engine co's. I know of a drunk who ran his vehicle off the road due to a fire run. It seems tha the main line of the L&N ran along side the main road that our engines from one of our stations had to use. The pumper was making a run with all lights on(including the mars light)and had the siren going,and then hit the airhorns. The drunk swore he must have been on the rrtracks,because he thought a train was coming right at him. Said he was going on the wagon,he could'nt take that. Mookie that was not you was it!

Mookie gets on no wagons!

[}:)]

[zardoz]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

QUOTE: Originally posted by locomutt

By the way, what the heck is graylight? I'm figure whom ever means GYROLIGHT! I know what a MARS light is. My former firedepartment had them on the engine co's. I know of a drunk who ran his vehicle off the road due to a fire run. It seems tha the main line of the L&N ran along side the main road that our engines from one of our stations had to use. The pumper was making a run with all lights on(including the mars light)and had the siren going,and then hit the airhorns. The drunk swore he must have been on the rrtracks,because he thought a train was coming right at him. Said he was going on the wagon,he could'nt take that. Mookie that was not you was it!

Mookie gets on no wagons!

[}:)]

Maybe no wagons, but certainly a soapbox occasionally.....[:D][;)]

[Mookie]

Mookie has a very big soapbox and her co-workers are very sympathetic to the forum posters!

Now Mook is taking her toys and going home! Driver has day off and I plan to go home and ruin it for him!

CU Mon...

Moo