Crossing Maintenance

[Bedfordtony]

Who is responsible for crossing maintenance? There are some Wheeling and Lake Erie crossings that are in poor repair and can damage passing vehicles.

Thanks

[Bedfordtony]

Who is responsible for crossing maintenance? There are some Wheeling and Lake Erie crossings that are in poor repair and can damage passing vehicles.

Thanks

[tree68]

Always an ongoing debate, but I believe the municipality is responsible for the roadway crossing the tracks.

[tree68]

Always an ongoing debate, but I believe the municipality is responsible for the roadway crossing the tracks.

[Bedfordtony]

Thank you for the information.

[Bedfordtony]

Thank you for the information.

[jchnhtfd]

When I was working with CN (some years back!) it was whoever had title to the road -- state/province, municipality, federal government in some cases. That being said, however, it was not unknown for our forces to help out now and again. The railroads signal forces are responsible for the operation and maintainance of any 'live' crossing guard apparatus -- gates, lights, etc. -- but it is the road owner's responsibility to decide what is required at a given crossing and to pay for it. It is quite possible that other railroads have other arrangements...

As tree68 says, though, always a sticky issue. And the general public usually thinks that it is the railroad's responsibility -- so we catch all the flack.

[jchnhtfd]

When I was working with CN (some years back!) it was whoever had title to the road -- state/province, municipality, federal government in some cases. That being said, however, it was not unknown for our forces to help out now and again. The railroads signal forces are responsible for the operation and maintainance of any 'live' crossing guard apparatus -- gates, lights, etc. -- but it is the road owner's responsibility to decide what is required at a given crossing and to pay for it. It is quite possible that other railroads have other arrangements...

As tree68 says, though, always a sticky issue. And the general public usually thinks that it is the railroad's responsibility -- so we catch all the flack.

[Bedfordtony]

Thank you for the information. This is a much more complicated issue than I had thought.

[Bedfordtony]

Thank you for the information. This is a much more complicated issue than I had thought.

[wabash1]

On the road i work for we own the crossings and are responsible for the repairs and the road leading up to tthe crossing is owned by what city county or state that maintains it. the city would not lay asphalt between the rails as they are not responsible for that. and would not be safe for them to do this either.

[wabash1]

On the road i work for we own the crossings and are responsible for the repairs and the road leading up to tthe crossing is owned by what city county or state that maintains it. the city would not lay asphalt between the rails as they are not responsible for that. and would not be safe for them to do this either.

[mudchicken]

Tony:

Let's complicate this some more......
(1) W&LE in the Cleveland area is a composite of several railroads that started between 1856 and 1895, most likely the Connotton Valley RR (Blood's Narrow Gauge that hit Bedford in July 1881)....The question that begs is "who was there first?". If the railroad was, the town or county pays for the crossing, most likely under a very old contract agreement. If the road was, then the road owner has some say with the PUCO in negotiations and there is documentation somewhere to support that with the railroad and the road owner.
(2) Do you have the DOT Numbers for the crossing(s)? [ 6 digit number & a check code] - You are going to need these if you request the crossing(s) to be fixed. The number is unique to each crossing and is either stencilled to the signal case (if there are crossing signals) or on a small license plate sized badge on the crossbucks (Luv those Ohio striped crossbucks!)... When going to the PUC or Mr Casey O'Connors people at WLE, you really need those numbers to differentiate what and whose crossing's a problem.
(2A) Is the crossing public or private.???? (DOT # info will state)
(3) In general, PUCO statute rules dictate that the railroad maintains everything within 2 feet of the outside rails and between tracks if there is more than one track. The railroad may repair the trackage on its own planned schedule (ask Mr. O'Connor if there are plans to do so here) or if requested, it will replace the surface and quite possibly bill the individual, town or county (whose road is it?) for the work involved. (find Mr. O'Connor at www.wlerwy.com under officials)
(4) Can you live for a few days while the crossing is closed (safety issue, trackworker safety IS more important than motorist convenience!!) while the crossing is renewed???
(5) Does the town/county/owner have the proper grades built to the approach of the crossing?-Approach grades are road owners responsibility and have a direct bearing on how the crossing rides and how long it lasts -and are the road owner's responsibility....
(+/- 3" elevation at 30 feet out from the crossing, aashto/arema SPEC.?) If not, the road owner has more $$$ to spend to make things right)......

In any case, communicate your concern (in writing!) to the railroad and cc the road owner. Gets your facts straight (including DOT numbers)...Communication is key and works wonders. Nobody wants to see another mess like what's happening over at Napoleon on Maumee & Western. (bad for the town and the railroad + lawyers are getting to stay employed)

-Mudchicken

[mudchicken]

Tony:

Let's complicate this some more......
(1) W&LE in the Cleveland area is a composite of several railroads that started between 1856 and 1895, most likely the Connotton Valley RR (Blood's Narrow Gauge that hit Bedford in July 1881)....The question that begs is "who was there first?". If the railroad was, the town or county pays for the crossing, most likely under a very old contract agreement. If the road was, then the road owner has some say with the PUCO in negotiations and there is documentation somewhere to support that with the railroad and the road owner.
(2) Do you have the DOT Numbers for the crossing(s)? [ 6 digit number & a check code] - You are going to need these if you request the crossing(s) to be fixed. The number is unique to each crossing and is either stencilled to the signal case (if there are crossing signals) or on a small license plate sized badge on the crossbucks (Luv those Ohio striped crossbucks!)... When going to the PUC or Mr Casey O'Connors people at WLE, you really need those numbers to differentiate what and whose crossing's a problem.
(2A) Is the crossing public or private.???? (DOT # info will state)
(3) In general, PUCO statute rules dictate that the railroad maintains everything within 2 feet of the outside rails and between tracks if there is more than one track. The railroad may repair the trackage on its own planned schedule (ask Mr. O'Connor if there are plans to do so here) or if requested, it will replace the surface and quite possibly bill the individual, town or county (whose road is it?) for the work involved. (find Mr. O'Connor at www.wlerwy.com under officials)
(4) Can you live for a few days while the crossing is closed (safety issue, trackworker safety IS more important than motorist convenience!!) while the crossing is renewed???
(5) Does the town/county/owner have the proper grades built to the approach of the crossing?-Approach grades are road owners responsibility and have a direct bearing on how the crossing rides and how long it lasts -and are the road owner's responsibility....
(+/- 3" elevation at 30 feet out from the crossing, aashto/arema SPEC.?) If not, the road owner has more $$$ to spend to make things right)......

In any case, communicate your concern (in writing!) to the railroad and cc the road owner. Gets your facts straight (including DOT numbers)...Communication is key and works wonders. Nobody wants to see another mess like what's happening over at Napoleon on Maumee & Western. (bad for the town and the railroad + lawyers are getting to stay employed)

-Mudchicken

[Bedfordtony]

To Mudchicken - thank you for your very informative post. Your knowledge of Ohio crossings is very impressive. I was beginning to think it was be better to merely drive around the broken areas of the crossing, but that would be the easier way out.

I spent some time stopped in La Junta on the Southwest Limited coming back to Cleveland on leave. There was a horse show or rodeo going on. Unfortunately the stop wasn't long enough to disembark the train.

Thanks again for the info.

[Bedfordtony]

To Mudchicken - thank you for your very informative post. Your knowledge of Ohio crossings is very impressive. I was beginning to think it was be better to merely drive around the broken areas of the crossing, but that would be the easier way out.

I spent some time stopped in La Junta on the Southwest Limited coming back to Cleveland on leave. There was a horse show or rodeo going on. Unfortunately the stop wasn't long enough to disembark the train.

Thanks again for the info.

[cabforward]

in charleston, sc, ns has had tracks in town for 100+ years.. this is not street rail, just grade crossings..

when the bumps got too bad, the ns worked with the city to close several crossings; ns regraded the area to about 2 ft. outside the rails, and all was smooth again..

[cabforward]

in charleston, sc, ns has had tracks in town for 100+ years.. this is not street rail, just grade crossings..

when the bumps got too bad, the ns worked with the city to close several crossings; ns regraded the area to about 2 ft. outside the rails, and all was smooth again..

[JoeKoh]

Hey mudchicken(maumee & western)
Tell me about it! It really has the state reps attention! Too many derailments and people call it the tippy railroad.If you want to see some really bad track go from Defiance to cecil ohio.Csx took out the crossover too on the southside of Defiance.
stay safe
joe

[JoeKoh]

Hey mudchicken(maumee & western)
Tell me about it! It really has the state reps attention! Too many derailments and people call it the tippy railroad.If you want to see some really bad track go from Defiance to cecil ohio.Csx took out the crossover too on the southside of Defiance.
stay safe
joe

[mudchicken]

You've got a dirt poor railroad with an "all we do is run trains" attitude squared off against an ignorant city (Napoleon) who wants to force the railroad into abandonment just so it can have the railroad's right-of-way for a new street and other alterior motives.
UGLY-UGLY-UGLY

...and this is before the state got involved (STB FD-34354_0 for those who can stomach a really bad situation).....

dusty fowl all wet

[mudchicken]

You've got a dirt poor railroad with an "all we do is run trains" attitude squared off against an ignorant city (Napoleon) who wants to force the railroad into abandonment just so it can have the railroad's right-of-way for a new street and other alterior motives.
UGLY-UGLY-UGLY

...and this is before the state got involved (STB FD-34354_0 for those who can stomach a really bad situation).....

dusty fowl all wet

[mudchicken]

Bedford Tony:

If you were there (The big LJ, "Smile-Hi!" City) on #4 in September, you hit "Early Settlers Day"...any other day and it sounds like maybe somebody left the gates open at the livestock sale barn on the east side of town. (Life in a small, 8500 people, town!)

All kidding aside, please write your concerns to the railroad and cc: the road owner. The letter, among other things, is something tangible a roadmaster can use to posture for extra budget $$$ to replace your problem crossing. Upper management has a funny way of changing its tune when direct, detailed, non-threatening requests to do something show up in the normal course of business. The letter becomes a beginnining point to get something done by the road owner and the railroad to improve the crossing. Railroaders, by nature, are pretty thick skinned and are hardly intimidated by threats, yelling, screaming, whining and sabre rattling. (Might work at city hall with those amateurs, but not here and won't get the crossing fixed any faster...)....Write!

Mudchicken
-from the trackman's point of view

[mudchicken]

Bedford Tony:

If you were there (The big LJ, "Smile-Hi!" City) on #4 in September, you hit "Early Settlers Day"...any other day and it sounds like maybe somebody left the gates open at the livestock sale barn on the east side of town. (Life in a small, 8500 people, town!)

All kidding aside, please write your concerns to the railroad and cc: the road owner. The letter, among other things, is something tangible a roadmaster can use to posture for extra budget $$$ to replace your problem crossing. Upper management has a funny way of changing its tune when direct, detailed, non-threatening requests to do something show up in the normal course of business. The letter becomes a beginnining point to get something done by the road owner and the railroad to improve the crossing. Railroaders, by nature, are pretty thick skinned and are hardly intimidated by threats, yelling, screaming, whining and sabre rattling. (Might work at city hall with those amateurs, but not here and won't get the crossing fixed any faster...)....Write!

Mudchicken
-from the trackman's point of view

[Bedfordtony]

It was September when I went through La Junta so it was probably the Early Settlers' Day. Thanks again for the information.

[Bedfordtony]

It was September when I went through La Junta so it was probably the Early Settlers' Day. Thanks again for the information.

[JoeKoh]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

You've got a dirt poor railroad with an "all we do is run trains" attitude squared off against an ignorant city (Napoleon) who wants to force the railroad into abandonment just so it can have the railroad's right-of-way for a new street and other alterior motives.
UGLY-UGLY-UGLY

...and this is before the state got involved (STB FD-34354_0 for those who can stomach a really bad situation).....

dusty fowl all wet

That is going to raise a realbig stink withe the cities largest employer cambell soup.I think I still have your email somewhere.and I know one person it might not make happy either(besides myself).[V]
stay safe
joe

[JoeKoh]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

You've got a dirt poor railroad with an "all we do is run trains" attitude squared off against an ignorant city (Napoleon) who wants to force the railroad into abandonment just so it can have the railroad's right-of-way for a new street and other alterior motives.
UGLY-UGLY-UGLY

...and this is before the state got involved (STB FD-34354_0 for those who can stomach a really bad situation).....

dusty fowl all wet

That is going to raise a realbig stink withe the cities largest employer cambell soup.I think I still have your email somewhere.and I know one person it might not make happy either(besides myself).[V]
stay safe
joe