Guility/Innocent

[edblysard]

Ok,
Just looking for a straw poll on Boyd, Little and the rest of them's innocence or guilt, based only on what you have read here, in the papers, or heard on TV and the radio.

Keep in mind an indictment is not a indication of guilt.
Down here, to get a formal charge for a felony crime, the DA has to present their case to a grand jury, a panel of average citizens.
Only the prosecution presents evidence, the accused havent been charged yet, so they do not participate.
The DA can present witnesses, who, unlike in a trial, can be questioned by the jury.

A unanimous decision much be reached by the jury, before a formal charge can be handed to the DA to persue.

This alone is not a indication of guilt, only a indication that the grand jury finds enough evidence to belive the crime/crimes as stated have been commited.

The finding of guilt by a particular party is soley up to the DA and the Justice Dept to prove in a court of law.

With this in mind, I am looking for a informal vote of guilt or innocence, the results of which we should discuss in a few days.
So simply vote guilty or innocent.
Thanks,
Ed

[edblysard]

Ok,
Just looking for a straw poll on Boyd, Little and the rest of them's innocence or guilt, based only on what you have read here, in the papers, or heard on TV and the radio.

Keep in mind an indictment is not a indication of guilt.
Down here, to get a formal charge for a felony crime, the DA has to present their case to a grand jury, a panel of average citizens.
Only the prosecution presents evidence, the accused havent been charged yet, so they do not participate.
The DA can present witnesses, who, unlike in a trial, can be questioned by the jury.

A unanimous decision much be reached by the jury, before a formal charge can be handed to the DA to persue.

This alone is not a indication of guilt, only a indication that the grand jury finds enough evidence to belive the crime/crimes as stated have been commited.

The finding of guilt by a particular party is soley up to the DA and the Justice Dept to prove in a court of law.

With this in mind, I am looking for a informal vote of guilt or innocence, the results of which we should discuss in a few days.
So simply vote guilty or innocent.
Thanks,
Ed

[Mookie]

guilty

Mz Moo

PS the advertising on the right-hand side of the screen was about attorneys!

I find that in itself very interesting! [8]

[Mookie]

guilty

Mz Moo

PS the advertising on the right-hand side of the screen was about attorneys!

I find that in itself very interesting! [8]

[JoeKoh]

guilty
stay safe
joe

[JoeKoh]

guilty
stay safe
joe

[wabash1]

guilty. and if we cant fry them lets put them in alabama with a 6ft 9in black guy named buba who will tell little your my puppy now.

[wabash1]

guilty. and if we cant fry them lets put them in alabama with a 6ft 9in black guy named buba who will tell little your my puppy now.

[zardoz]

Always innocent until proven guilty!!

Isn't that one of the freedoms we're fighting for?

[zardoz]

Always innocent until proven guilty!!

Isn't that one of the freedoms we're fighting for?

[Anonymous]

Everybody can have an opinion. Guilty.

I would have simply voted innocent or guilty except you chose to editorialize the question.

Ed don't get Federal Court rules confused with Texas State rules, this is a Federal prosecution. If an indictment has been entered (formal charges) it has already gone to the Federal Grand Jury and has been decided that there is enough evidence to proceed. You all right in the point that no evidence has yet been presented in court, that is still to come. This is an excerpt from the DOJ press release "Indictments are formal accusations of criminal conduct, not evidence. Defendants are presumed innocent unless and until convicted through due process of law."

This indictment is not something that just popped up this month, it has been going on for years. At this point nine lawyers and law office employees and Neil Babineaux (ex-UTU Texas Legislative board chair and Little/Boyd campaign manager) have been convicted. Ralph Dennis (UTUIA Treasurer and Boyd's most recent campaign manager) resigned his UTU post in July one week before the UTU convention. It has been reported by Dennis's attorney that he is changing his plea to guilty and is cooperating with the prosecution.

The charges are about accepting money from law firms in exchange for keeping them on the DLC list. The charges go on that the money received was used for the campaigns of Little and Boyd in their quest for President of the UTU.

[Anonymous]

Everybody can have an opinion. Guilty.

I would have simply voted innocent or guilty except you chose to editorialize the question.

Ed don't get Federal Court rules confused with Texas State rules, this is a Federal prosecution. If an indictment has been entered (formal charges) it has already gone to the Federal Grand Jury and has been decided that there is enough evidence to proceed. You all right in the point that no evidence has yet been presented in court, that is still to come. This is an excerpt from the DOJ press release "Indictments are formal accusations of criminal conduct, not evidence. Defendants are presumed innocent unless and until convicted through due process of law."

This indictment is not something that just popped up this month, it has been going on for years. At this point nine lawyers and law office employees and Neil Babineaux (ex-UTU Texas Legislative board chair and Little/Boyd campaign manager) have been convicted. Ralph Dennis (UTUIA Treasurer and Boyd's most recent campaign manager) resigned his UTU post in July one week before the UTU convention. It has been reported by Dennis's attorney that he is changing his plea to guilty and is cooperating with the prosecution.

The charges are about accepting money from law firms in exchange for keeping them on the DLC list. The charges go on that the money received was used for the campaigns of Little and Boyd in their quest for President of the UTU.

[edblysard]

Hi pfrench,
Was not confused, just trying to keep it simple.
And the editorlized portion was an attempt to inform folks that just because someone is indicted, that alone is neither a finding of guilt, nor proof of same.
All it means is that a Federal Grand Jury has decided that there is enough evidence that the crime the Justice Dept claims to have been commited exsist, and therefore the Justice Dept can proceed.

If you want, we can fill an entire thread about the differences in power and authority of a County District Attorney, and the U.S. District Attorney, the rules of evidential proceedings, why this is being held in Houston, and lots of other specific, but un necessary legal stuff.

It was an attempt, alibet a rather long one, to tell folks exactly what you did in a much shorter and clearer form.

Under our rules of law, they are innocent untill proven guilty.

Note I did not vote, yet.

I will, but I felt it may alter the very unsicentific results we will obtain, by possible swaying some to follow my lead.

By the way, this will tie into the exchange on Arnolds run for Governor, and the percived image the average citizen has of public figures.
Stay Frosty,
[:D]Ed

[edblysard]

Hi pfrench,
Was not confused, just trying to keep it simple.
And the editorlized portion was an attempt to inform folks that just because someone is indicted, that alone is neither a finding of guilt, nor proof of same.
All it means is that a Federal Grand Jury has decided that there is enough evidence that the crime the Justice Dept claims to have been commited exsist, and therefore the Justice Dept can proceed.

If you want, we can fill an entire thread about the differences in power and authority of a County District Attorney, and the U.S. District Attorney, the rules of evidential proceedings, why this is being held in Houston, and lots of other specific, but un necessary legal stuff.

It was an attempt, alibet a rather long one, to tell folks exactly what you did in a much shorter and clearer form.

Under our rules of law, they are innocent untill proven guilty.

Note I did not vote, yet.

I will, but I felt it may alter the very unsicentific results we will obtain, by possible swaying some to follow my lead.

By the way, this will tie into the exchange on Arnolds run for Governor, and the percived image the average citizen has of public figures.
Stay Frosty,
[:D]Ed

[JoeKoh]

If Arnold wants to run for govenor thats fine.They have had a lot of stuff screwed up out there for a long time now(not that ohio is perfect).Honest politicians are very few and far betwwen.I was suprised to meet a commissioner personally on a sunday(yes I said sunday).Checking where the storm sewers in the county were located so they can be improved and lower county residents water bill.
imagine that
stay safe
joe

[JoeKoh]

If Arnold wants to run for govenor thats fine.They have had a lot of stuff screwed up out there for a long time now(not that ohio is perfect).Honest politicians are very few and far betwwen.I was suprised to meet a commissioner personally on a sunday(yes I said sunday).Checking where the storm sewers in the county were located so they can be improved and lower county residents water bill.
imagine that
stay safe
joe

[cabforward]

ive heard on several cop & robber shows that a d.a. can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich..

another character would say yeah, but at least a ham sandwich has meat in it..

the rule of the trial jury is guilty / not guilty. innocence is an interesting topic, but not a legal argument, unless is the dna proves a convicted person is not a match to the evidence..

and all that's too easy, anyway.. if you want a real discussion, talk about what sentence they will receive if convicted..

what combination of jail, fine, suspended sentence or community service would the guy get? you could even bet whether all-but-one will get off, totally.. who's the patsy?

guilty/not guilty is irrelevant.. i want to know who was nailed (convicted) and what they will do for it? one more thing, if they do jailtime, how soon will they get out? but, that would mean staying interested long enough to wait for their day of release.. who would care after 2 years?

[cabforward]

ive heard on several cop & robber shows that a d.a. can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich..

another character would say yeah, but at least a ham sandwich has meat in it..

the rule of the trial jury is guilty / not guilty. innocence is an interesting topic, but not a legal argument, unless is the dna proves a convicted person is not a match to the evidence..

and all that's too easy, anyway.. if you want a real discussion, talk about what sentence they will receive if convicted..

what combination of jail, fine, suspended sentence or community service would the guy get? you could even bet whether all-but-one will get off, totally.. who's the patsy?

guilty/not guilty is irrelevant.. i want to know who was nailed (convicted) and what they will do for it? one more thing, if they do jailtime, how soon will they get out? but, that would mean staying interested long enough to wait for their day of release.. who would care after 2 years?

[Anonymous]

They are innocent. When you get to there level of the food chain, what they did is just normal bussiness!!
TIM A

[Anonymous]

They are innocent. When you get to there level of the food chain, what they did is just normal bussiness!!
TIM A

[cabforward]

absolutely innocent!!
and, while not admitting liability, they'll never do it again!!

[cabforward]

absolutely innocent!!
and, while not admitting liability, they'll never do it again!!

[Anonymous]

Because i live up here, we don't normaly hear about american news, so cna soemone briefly explain the case with little bias towards any given side so i can make a judgement. Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Because i live up here, we don't normaly hear about american news, so cna soemone briefly explain the case with little bias towards any given side so i can make a judgement. Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Kevin, the charges are that in exchange for maintaining a law firm on the UTU designated legal council list the law firm would donate money first to Little's then Boyd's campaign for president of the UTU.

I guess the problem is that the DLC list is suppose to inform the membership of law firms that have a certain amount of expertise in FELA cases, it shouldn't be based on the amount of money they give.

That is as much as I am going to explain before I get too biased. Here is a link to the UTU General Committee of Adjustment 386 that has the DOJ press release posted by the Web Master and another article from the Houston Chronicle.

http://www.jaysworks.com/forum/YaBB.cgi?board=General;action=display;num=1063662188

[Anonymous]

Kevin, the charges are that in exchange for maintaining a law firm on the UTU designated legal council list the law firm would donate money first to Little's then Boyd's campaign for president of the UTU.

I guess the problem is that the DLC list is suppose to inform the membership of law firms that have a certain amount of expertise in FELA cases, it shouldn't be based on the amount of money they give.

That is as much as I am going to explain before I get too biased. Here is a link to the UTU General Committee of Adjustment 386 that has the DOJ press release posted by the Web Master and another article from the Houston Chronicle.

http://www.jaysworks.com/forum/YaBB.cgi?board=General;action=display;num=1063662188

[Anonymous]

Who cares if that Fat Bastad is guilty or innocent. Join the BLE! Quit paying dues to the UTU so they can sell your soal off and say that they are doing it in the name of your best interest. I am BLE and the only down side to being BLE is that I can't vote on my trainmen contract..............so what! I didn't get to vote anyway and with the wonderful UTU, a non vote is considered a yes! Thanks UTU (a subsidiary of the Railroads) for shoving a great contract up my ***!
Ken

[Anonymous]

Who cares if that Fat Bastad is guilty or innocent. Join the BLE! Quit paying dues to the UTU so they can sell your soal off and say that they are doing it in the name of your best interest. I am BLE and the only down side to being BLE is that I can't vote on my trainmen contract..............so what! I didn't get to vote anyway and with the wonderful UTU, a non vote is considered a yes! Thanks UTU (a subsidiary of the Railroads) for shoving a great contract up my ***!
Ken

[edblysard]

Hi Kev, go to
http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/txs/index.html
click on the press release , and read the press release about Boyd.
I should add that this press release is issued by the US Attorneys Office, through their press officer.
I think pfrench had another site listed, a UTU site and a link to the local newspaper, The Houston Chronical.
Read them also, so as to get the most info.

Stay frosty,
Ed

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman

Because i live up here, we don't normaly hear about american news, so cna soemone briefly explain the case with little bias towards any given side so i can make a judgement. Thanks.

[edblysard]

Hi Kev, go to
http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/txs/index.html
click on the press release , and read the press release about Boyd.
I should add that this press release is issued by the US Attorneys Office, through their press officer.
I think pfrench had another site listed, a UTU site and a link to the local newspaper, The Houston Chronical.
Read them also, so as to get the most info.

Stay frosty,
Ed

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman

Because i live up here, we don't normaly hear about american news, so cna soemone briefly explain the case with little bias towards any given side so i can make a judgement. Thanks.