TimChgo9 wrote: Well in my line of work, we have a saying.... "Alcohol and stupid people are the main reasons I have job security" Union, non union, it doesn't matter, so long as those two ingredients are present in society (especially when they mix) there will ALWAYS be work for me...
Well in my line of work, we have a saying....
"Alcohol and stupid people are the main reasons I have job security"
Union, non union, it doesn't matter, so long as those two ingredients are present in society (especially when they mix) there will ALWAYS be work for me...
Then you must be happier than a pig in slop when the Bears play.
No, Anti, your not obligated to do a thing...
Dont know where you got that, other than you are attempting to pick an argument.
Point is they do offer jobs.
No insurance in most cases, and low wages, but employement at least for the "marginal" citizen who other wise would be a total drain on the system.
Without the Walmarts, KMarts and such, these people would have little choice but to survive off of the welfare system.
You indicated that I was a social worker, and some how responsible for sending people to Walmart to shop...not true on either count.
I am glad they offer jobs, cruddy jobs, but jobs none the less.
The alternative is pretty expensive to you and I, the taxpayer.
The buy American routine is a myth, you really cant do that.
Half of your Chevy, Dodge or Ford car is made in Mexico or Canada...the tires come from Japan...your home air conditioning unit is made in Mexico, even though it says TRANE USA on the outside...as is your GE icebox and range...
Even your toilet paper is, for the most part, imported.
The problem is America has gotten away from being an industrial and agricultural based nation, and becomeing a nation of service providers and service consumers…we don’t really build things here anymore.
Shoot, even Amana, the first company to offer home microwave ovens, gave it up…
I would bet that over half, if not all of the components in the computer that you are reading this on are made anywhere but in the US.
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edblysard wrote:, or the store sells cheap cookware, you might want to think about this…at least they work, and pay into the system, when they could easily get a ride on the welfare train and live on your dime.
, or the store sells cheap cookware, you might want to think about this…at least they work, and pay into the system, when they could easily get a ride on the welfare train and live on your dime.
edblysard wrote: Is Walmart and the other big box stores part of the problem? Sure, but so are the thousand of other employers who do not provide health insurance.
Is Walmart and the other big box stores part of the problem?
Sure, but so are the thousand of other employers who do not provide health insurance.
Couple thoughts.
First, I think we've more than identified the problem. Let's look at possible solutions, or why a solution is so difficult.
Let me say I'm not an elitist, and I don't sneer or look down at anyone who works at Wal Mart. While some people depend on their Wal Mart job as fulltime employment, a percentage of WM employees are part-time students and seniors. So we're not talking about 100 percent of the Wal Mart workforce here.
1) What Wal Mart and any others are doing is not illegal. Unethical, yes, but not illegal. Why does the system allow them to continue to get away with it?
2) Why is health insurance so expensive in the first place? Should we be asking an attorney for the answer?
3) Why has the government failed in providing affordable health care for everyone, if indeed it is the government's responsibility at all?
4) The nation will always have a workforce of "working poor," no matter how many dollars and government programs we throw at it.
5) If we raise the minimum wage, businesses will simply lay off employees and make the remaining employees do more work to make up the difference.
6) And the statement for which I'll probably take the most pipe: No one HAS to work for Wal Mart. If you need a job with benefits, then don't work for Wal Mart.
For most people in this country, taxpayers make a school system available for free so anyone can learn a skill -- any skill -- that would make them more valuable to an employer. If you can do nothing more than put boxes on shelves, either the system has failed you or you've failed yourself.
"But if they didn't work for Wal Mart, they'd be unemployed," someone will say. "And as taxpayers we'll still be covering their healthcare."
So which is better? Paying only for their healthcare and having them be fractionally productive by working at Wal Mart, or putting them on full unemployment AND welfare as well as paying for their healthcare?
Or is there another workable solution?
This discussion is not as clear headed as what was accomplished on the Model Railroader Forum.
Watch my videos on-line at https://www.youtube.com/user/AndrewNeilFalconer
True, Poppa,
But then affordable health insurance is not an option for over 10 million working Americans.
Add in the cradle to grave section of our society which lives almost exclusively off the taxpayer largess, and the cost to your federal government is staggering.
But the discussion was inclined towards WalMart specifically, so…
But the truth be told, most blue collar workers have no choice but to use publicly funded hospitals and emergency rooms as their first line health care provider.
Here is a dollar amount from when I was part of the system.
By the way, a part of the system that recovered the money, not the part handing it out.
The figures are from the Office of the Attorney General, State of Texas, oversight and fraud recovery committee's system evaluation for 1995.
Here are some, but not all of the benefits.
In 1995 a custodial parent with two children could receive benefits valued on average of $3000.00 per month…including, but not limited to monthly checks, one for themselves and one for each of the kids at $375.00 each check, food stamps, on average of $600.00, HUD housing that would allow them to live in a two bedroom apartment that normally would rent in the $900.00 per month bracket, but they pays $50.00, a utility cap adjustment that guarantees the light bill is no more than $40.00 per month, day care for the kids, estimated at $100.00 per week per child, transportation to and from the daycare, breakfast and lunch provided.
(they are unemployed, so why do they need daycare?)
Free breakfast and lunch at the public school.
Medicade services, and zero cost to them for emergency room visits, including medicines and out patient services, canes, crutches, walkers, wheel chairs, hospital beds at home, the list goes on for several pages.
(ever wonder why your emergency room at your local hospital is so crowded, but most of the people there only have a cold?)
In Harris County, the largest county in Texas, back then there were 10 DHHS offices, staffed by on average 60 intake case officers whose sole job was to certify applicants for benefits.
By law, they can not turn you away, and by policy, they had to see at least one client per hour.
10 offices times 60 officers is 600 officers times a 8 hour work day is 4800 clients per day, ¾ of those clients seen are re-certifications, (they are already in the system and receiving benefits) ¼ are new cases, or 1200 new welfare clients per day, times 5 days a week is 6000 per week, or 24000 per month in one county, in one state.
If each only qualified for half of the average benefits, then you spend $ 36,000000.00 per month in tax dollars in one county alone.
In a year….?
Multiply that by New York, Chicago, LA, Portland, Miami, New Orleans and most of Louisiana, every major population center in the US, and you get to the point the dollar figure is incomprehensible to the average person, you have never seen that many zeros after a dollar amount.
Place that next to the minimum wage earner, who, if they work more that 30 hours in a week, or own a car less than 10 years old, or live with their parents, go to school or college, and do not qualify for any of the money benefits, and only some of the medical benefits.
Let’s see…around $3000.00 in free benefits a month, including medical, to not have a job, or $618.00 a month in earned wages and some limited medical benefits for those who choose to work.
Hard choice, huh…
The system is busted, and has been for a long time.
Those that truly need the help, and try and better themselves, don’t qualify.
Those that do nothing to help themselves, except show up hat in had every three months made more, and live better than someone who works.
Next time you walk into a WalMart, Kmart, or any “big box” store and decide the minimum wage earner stocking the shelves or running the register is a little beneath you, or sneer at them because they have less that perfect English skills or a funny accent, or the store sells cheap cookware, you might want to think about this…at least they work, and pay into the system, when they could easily get a ride on the welfare train and live on your dime.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
edblysard wrote: Actually, Anti… My former job with the Office of the Attorney General, State of Texas, was as a child support investigator and AFDC, Aid to Families with Dependent Children (welfare) fraud recovery. I found and helped prosecute the folks who failed to pay their court ordered child support, the lack of which is one of the reasons the custodial parent will turn to the welfare system for help. And I investigated and helped prosecute those who received welfare dollars and services through fraud. Kinda a twofer….I caught you if you fail to pay, and I got you if you cheated the system and took federal money illegally. In a way, I put money back into your government's coffers, instead of helping take it out. Or at least help stop some of the draining of federal funds. I believe you might have me confused with someone who worked for DHHS, the Department of Health and Human Services, (now the Health and Human Services Commission, or HHSC) whose main job is to certify and enroll anyone they can into the federally funded welfare and healthcare system. Remember, in Federal Government jobs, numbers count, not people. Trust me, the employees at WalMart are very well acquainted with the good folks at DHHS, as that is where the majority of them turn to receive their health insurance, health care, and food stamps, because WalMart doesn’t offer such benefits as health insurance at rates the minimum wage earner can afford. You the tax payer are subsidizing WalMart through your tax contributions to the welfare system. Ed
Actually, Anti…
My former job with the Office of the Attorney General, State of Texas, was as a child support investigator and AFDC, Aid to Families with Dependent Children (welfare) fraud recovery.
I found and helped prosecute the folks who failed to pay their court ordered child support, the lack of which is one of the reasons the custodial parent will turn to the welfare system for help.
And I investigated and helped prosecute those who received welfare dollars and services through fraud.
Kinda a twofer….I caught you if you fail to pay, and I got you if you cheated the system and took federal money illegally.
In a way, I put money back into your government's coffers, instead of helping take it out.
Or at least help stop some of the draining of federal funds.
I believe you might have me confused with someone who worked for DHHS, the Department of Health and Human Services, (now the Health and Human Services Commission, or HHSC) whose main job is to certify and enroll anyone they can into the federally funded welfare and healthcare system.
Remember, in Federal Government jobs, numbers count, not people.
Trust me, the employees at WalMart are very well acquainted with the good folks at DHHS, as that is where the majority of them turn to receive their health insurance, health care, and food stamps, because WalMart doesn’t offer such benefits as health insurance at rates the minimum wage earner can afford.
You the tax payer are subsidizing WalMart through your tax contributions to the welfare system.
Ed
Ed, the first seven jobs I had included no benefits. No health insurance, no sick days, nada. But they were all low-level jobs that required little or no training -- like most positions at Wal Mart. So somebody subsidized me until I could return the favor after I had learned enough skills to be of more value to an employer and therefore earn a true "living wage."
I'm not saying what Wal Mart does is right -- I just want everyone to realize it's not the only company that does not offer benefits -- but is always singled out because it is such a large, easy, convenient target.
solzrules wrote: Poppa Z - I read about that Chicago business in the newspaper here in Milwaukee. Some of my liberal friends here in the city were overjoyed that someone had discovered a way to combat the evil that was descending upon them in the form of Wal-Mart. Acolades all around! Our great thinkers have found a way!!!! Of course no one mentioned that this will result in the loss of other jobs as well. Will this ridiculous requirement harm the rest of the economy in the Chicago area as well?
Poppa Z -
I read about that Chicago business in the newspaper here in Milwaukee. Some of my liberal friends here in the city were overjoyed that someone had discovered a way to combat the evil that was descending upon them in the form of Wal-Mart. Acolades all around! Our great thinkers have found a way!!!! Of course no one mentioned that this will result in the loss of other jobs as well. Will this ridiculous requirement harm the rest of the economy in the Chicago area as well?
Probably not. It will just slide the sales and real estate taxes to other communities. Funny thing, when they interviewed for jobs at the new Wal Mart in Evergreen Park -- right across the street from Chicago, by the way -- over 25,000 people applied for 375 jobs.
And after it opened, most of its shoppers were coming over the border from Chicago. So while 50 aldermen (salary about $115,000 for a part-time job) have a problem with what Wal Mart is paying its employees, 25,000 of their constituents do not.
TheAntiGates wrote: edblysard wrote: They sell cookware at WalMart? Cool...gotta go get me some, and learn to cook.Being the experienced social worker that you are, you've probably helped channel more money into the Walmart till than any other member here.
edblysard wrote: They sell cookware at WalMart? Cool...gotta go get me some, and learn to cook.
They sell cookware at WalMart?
Cool...gotta go get me some, and learn to cook.
edblysard wrote:They sell cookware at WalMart? Cool...gotta go get me some, and learn to cook.
If you do think these cars are bad (personally I think there is nothing wrong with them), now we're cutting Tom & Jerry cartoons because they show Tom smoking.
Oh, PLEEEASE.
Pick up some of those grafitti railcars while you're at it!
edblysard wrote: They sell cookware at WalMart? Cool...gotta go get me some, and learn to cook. Ed TheAntiGates wrote: SchemerBob wrote: TheAntiGates wrote:Not just "cheap products"...CHEAP, CRAPPY PRODUCTS!! UPDATE - Yesterday I purchased all 6 "Enamelized" freight cars at Wal-Mart. Yes, I know I'm probably going to be beaten up because of that, but I don't really see what's wrong with them. I have a lot of these same trains (engines, accessories, track), and I heard about these cars and thought they would be a perfect, realistic addition to my collection. First of all, THESE TRAINS ARE NOT EVEN CLOSE TO "CRAPPY"!! EVERY car's main body is die cast metal with plastic parts. If you aren't careful with them, sure they're going to get busted, but isn't that how everything is? What I would call "crappy" are those HO train sets they have during Christmastime....every car is plastic! I realize I may be supporting something that is not good (Wal-Mart), but that's the only place you can get them, so you don't really have a choice. IMHO these trains are very well made and they are at a reasonable price. What else is there to say?More power to you Bob. It is possible to find some quality mechandise inside a walmart. Selling the top brands is NOT what made walmart ubiquitous though.Hey, if I wanted to buy a bare bones fish net for one season, as cheaply as possible, and realize that I'd be throwing it away and getting a new one next year, then i'd probably go to walmart for it. THAT is the mentality they serve...best.Look at the cookware sold a Wallyworld tha pots, pans and skillets, they don't have a quality offering in the store.I will go shopping at Walmart when I can't find what i'm looking for anywhere else, but the last time I went there looking for cookware, I laughed my way out of the store, it was all like rummage sale cookware, without the scratches.I do buy my soda pop there, made in america and cheaper than anywhere else, other than the 6 time per year blow outs, at Kroger.I'd rather buy quality products from a local mom and pop merchant, anyday
TheAntiGates wrote: SchemerBob wrote: TheAntiGates wrote:Not just "cheap products"...CHEAP, CRAPPY PRODUCTS!! UPDATE - Yesterday I purchased all 6 "Enamelized" freight cars at Wal-Mart. Yes, I know I'm probably going to be beaten up because of that, but I don't really see what's wrong with them. I have a lot of these same trains (engines, accessories, track), and I heard about these cars and thought they would be a perfect, realistic addition to my collection. First of all, THESE TRAINS ARE NOT EVEN CLOSE TO "CRAPPY"!! EVERY car's main body is die cast metal with plastic parts. If you aren't careful with them, sure they're going to get busted, but isn't that how everything is? What I would call "crappy" are those HO train sets they have during Christmastime....every car is plastic! I realize I may be supporting something that is not good (Wal-Mart), but that's the only place you can get them, so you don't really have a choice. IMHO these trains are very well made and they are at a reasonable price. What else is there to say?More power to you Bob. It is possible to find some quality mechandise inside a walmart. Selling the top brands is NOT what made walmart ubiquitous though.Hey, if I wanted to buy a bare bones fish net for one season, as cheaply as possible, and realize that I'd be throwing it away and getting a new one next year, then i'd probably go to walmart for it. THAT is the mentality they serve...best.Look at the cookware sold a Wallyworld tha pots, pans and skillets, they don't have a quality offering in the store.I will go shopping at Walmart when I can't find what i'm looking for anywhere else, but the last time I went there looking for cookware, I laughed my way out of the store, it was all like rummage sale cookware, without the scratches.I do buy my soda pop there, made in america and cheaper than anywhere else, other than the 6 time per year blow outs, at Kroger.I'd rather buy quality products from a local mom and pop merchant, anyday
SchemerBob wrote: TheAntiGates wrote:Not just "cheap products"...CHEAP, CRAPPY PRODUCTS!! UPDATE - Yesterday I purchased all 6 "Enamelized" freight cars at Wal-Mart. Yes, I know I'm probably going to be beaten up because of that, but I don't really see what's wrong with them. I have a lot of these same trains (engines, accessories, track), and I heard about these cars and thought they would be a perfect, realistic addition to my collection. First of all, THESE TRAINS ARE NOT EVEN CLOSE TO "CRAPPY"!! EVERY car's main body is die cast metal with plastic parts. If you aren't careful with them, sure they're going to get busted, but isn't that how everything is? What I would call "crappy" are those HO train sets they have during Christmastime....every car is plastic! I realize I may be supporting something that is not good (Wal-Mart), but that's the only place you can get them, so you don't really have a choice. IMHO these trains are very well made and they are at a reasonable price. What else is there to say?
TheAntiGates wrote:Not just "cheap products"...CHEAP, CRAPPY PRODUCTS!!
UPDATE - Yesterday I purchased all 6 "Enamelized" freight cars at Wal-Mart. Yes, I know I'm probably going to be beaten up because of that, but I don't really see what's wrong with them. I have a lot of these same trains (engines, accessories, track), and I heard about these cars and thought they would be a perfect, realistic addition to my collection.
First of all, THESE TRAINS ARE NOT EVEN CLOSE TO "CRAPPY"!! EVERY car's main body is die cast metal with plastic parts. If you aren't careful with them, sure they're going to get busted, but isn't that how everything is? What I would call "crappy" are those HO train sets they have during Christmastime....every car is plastic!
I realize I may be supporting something that is not good (Wal-Mart), but that's the only place you can get them, so you don't really have a choice. IMHO these trains are very well made and they are at a reasonable price. What else is there to say?
Wal Mart offers a wide variety of quality levels, depending on the product. Is it too much to let the consumer make his/her own decision about the quality he/she needs, or do our buttinski, anti-Wall Mart Liberals insist on eliminating that freedom of choice? If we allow that to happen, are we any better than the other target of Liberal ire, China? If the WM products are so dadgum crappy, why do people keep buying them? Trailers are no match for brick-and-mortar homes, so why don't we pass legislation outlawing trailers? I abhor arrogant people who have anointed themselves decision-makers for everyone else.
Wal Mart is an easy target because of its size. Wal Mart is an easy target because of where many of its products originate. Its size (economy of scale) is what allows it the selling/bargaining power it enjoys. I get tired of hearing the bleating about "Wal Mart has ruined Main Street America," etc. Put that in a category with "air travel ruined passenger trains" and "the automobile ruined the buggy business" and "railroads stole the jobs of canal workers."
Right now, we have a large group of Chicago aldermen who have passed a "Big Box" law for businesses with 75,000 square feet of floor space or more. The law says any business this size or larger must pay its employees a "living wage" -- $10 an hour minimum plus benefits. Wal Mart, Target and Lowes have canceled their plans for stores (which provide jobs) within the Chicago city limits. Existing stores (and several warehouse and manufacturing facilities) are also talking about moving out of the city. This in addition to a City of Chicago "head tax" on employees imposed many years ago ($4 a month per employee in businesses with over 50 employees).
The aldermen may thus score a "victory of principle" but the stores will still open -- in suburbs just outside the city limits who will gather all of the sale tax revenue. That shortfall will be made up in higher real estate tax bills for Chicago residents. Which apparently does not bother the aldermen.
So the battle goes on, a battle no one will win.
One Track Mind wrote:As a graduate of the Oliver Stone Institute of Technology, my theory is that there must have been some overstocked spray paint and they were hoping this would spur sales.
dekemd wrote:Walmart ships very little by rail. They built a distribution center in my area about 5 years ago. It is less than 1/2 mile from a CSX mainline, but they did not build a spur. Everything is trucked in and trucked out. The roads are clogged with Walmart trucks.
Mookie wrote: You know - this is better than prime time television - and a lot cheaper! But you all missed a very important point. They are selling graffiti covered rail cars, but is the original artist getting his commission and did they get written permission from him to use his art work? Moo?
You know - this is better than prime time television - and a lot cheaper!
But you all missed a very important point. They are selling graffiti covered rail cars, but is the original artist getting his commission and did they get written permission from him to use his art work?
Moo?
Have fun with your trains
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
eolafan wrote:Guns have been known to be used in killing innocent people, but you don't see Walmart (or just about any other toy or department store for that matter) taking toy guns off of their shelves, do you? No, well, lots of luck trying to get them to follow your arguement on graffiti on model rail cars!
Thats because, more people are killed per year by knives and in car accidents... And considering the number of accidents by responsible firearm owners (NOT CRIMINALS) is less than that of people injured playing badmitton, and statistically your chance of being shot at a range with responsible sportsman is less than of being struck by lightening, I don't see a point to your post... Then there's a little something called the 2nd Amendment....
Guns don't kill people -- people with cars, knives, fists, baseball bats, (etc) kill people..
P.S. Seeing how you said "toy" guns, I've never ever seen anyone shot and killed by a "toy". So whats your point?
....M636C: All your points are well taken and not doubted. I suppose I must get back to the basics of what I am concerned with is simply here in the USA we have been famous and in many instances first...designing, developing and producing all kinds of products for more than a hundred years plus...
All aspects of that are now being siphoned off to cheap labor locations in the world and soon we will not have the buying power to even purchase these once "our" products.
Further more...in this vast world if we are weakened, the world will not be able to continue to call on us to be the world "protector" against all evil...! Our super power strength will have to be pulled back to protecting more of our own interests in this changing environment....It goes on but we'll leave my comments at that for now and move on.....
Quentin
blhanel wrote: Modelcar wrote:....Brian {Ia.}, I'm sure you are more informed on these matters than I am...{not in my field at all}, but the units are for none other than the Commander in Chief.....! I don't remember what country it was but it was someplace in Europe. The info was on the news some months ago. Beat out an American co. on the project. Oh, OK! Yeah, that deal... since Lockheed Martin is doing the final assembly, they're putting in all the high-tech classified stuff; the overseas airframe manufacturer is just providing the bare-bones helicopter.
Modelcar wrote:....Brian {Ia.}, I'm sure you are more informed on these matters than I am...{not in my field at all}, but the units are for none other than the Commander in Chief.....! I don't remember what country it was but it was someplace in Europe. The info was on the news some months ago. Beat out an American co. on the project.
Oh, OK! Yeah, that deal... since Lockheed Martin is doing the final assembly, they're putting in all the high-tech classified stuff; the overseas airframe manufacturer is just providing the bare-bones helicopter.
The Agusta Westland EH101 was the best aircraft for the job. The only real competitor was the Sikorsky S-92 which is basically only a prototype, although it was based on the S-70 (Blackhawk and Seahawk) which are well established.
The EH101 is in service in Canada (where it won a competition with Bell who build in Canada, and Sikorsky) Both Agusta and Westland have built US helicopters (both Sikorsky and Bell) under licence and have several designs of their own in European military service, as well as the EH101 used by the British Navy, British Army and the Italian Navy and Army.
This isn't a matter of low priced workers stealing jobs from the US. The Westland workers in Yeovil are probably paid more than the Sikorsky workers in Connecticut. The EH 101 is bigger than the S-92 and has three engines to the S-92's two. This can only be safer and the engines are the same, GE T700s built in the USA. The value of US components in every EH101 might be half the cost of the aircraft anyway, when electronics , hydraulics and engines are counted.
The EH101 provides a safe and reliable transport for the President of the USA which we all want, regardless of our political leanings. The current VIP helicopters, VH-3 Sea Kings date back to the 1950s and need replacement. The EH101 was designed to replace Westland - built Sea Kings, and is the best currently available.
To get a bit further back on topic, Wal-Mart aren't alone in buying Chinese and other imported merchandise. You will find imported products in the high priced stores as well. You choose by spending your money. I just bought a USA made washing machine rather than one from Asia. It cost me the same, but I got a machine that was simple and robust without a digital timer display and with only three selector knobs. And I don't live in the USA!
M636C
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