bad product choice at walmart,someone dropped the ball!

[Anonymous]

I can show you a whole yard full of NYC painted stuff.  Benning Yard (CSX - Washington DC) holds coal hoppers (empty and full) there for area plants.  CSX and NS used the old reporting marks to divvy up Conrail. 

There is a difference between wanting to have a clean car and being able to protect thousands of pieces of rolling stock, plus locomotives.  Debris may also be another reason why they prefer the public stay off the ROW and out of the yards.  Not the right image (Of course, brainless wonders getting hit by trains doesn't help either!).  I don't see much rust going by around here.  Maybe one in 30.  Actually, I have been amazed at the lack of grafitti on cars I would expect to see it on in the past. 

Well, I'm not talking about the old reporting marks being used, I'm talking about the real deal, cars originally painted in NYC/PC green. The NYC logos were covered by PC logos and then by the CR logo. The cars usually are about 70% rusted, with paint peeling off and when it peels off in the right places, the old logo can be seen, sometimes it's 100% intact after all these years.

A few days ago, I was watching trains and an Eastbound went by, almost all rusted and grafittied hoppers, some really bad looking, some not so bad. Later on, a Westbound came through with about 30 brand new hoppers, a big contrast to the rest of the train, about 40 rusted up hoppers and about a dozen severly rusted up gondolas, and a few tank and box cars. Pretty much all the old stuff was grafittied except the gondolas. Probably too rusty to hold the paint!

I don't see how graffitti could ever be controlled, there's too much track and even if you fence off yard areas, it's still going to happen. Since it can't be stopped, it doesn't make much sense to me to worry about it.

[Andrew Falconer]

I am not holding my breath. Is this wallmart car an actual scale model (HO,O,ect)? Or just a toy.

It is near TT Scale. There is a thread on the MODEL RAILROADER forum that is on the same subject, but it is a much more intelligent discussion.

Andrew

[CANADIANPACIFIC2816]

In all my years in the hobby of model trains, I have seen worse stuff than this. Last December I had to make a trip up to the pharmacy of my neighborhood department store, and in the section of the store where they had decorative Christmas stuff, there were a few porcelain pieces that you would place around the base of your Christmas tree, they included buildings and........trains molded into the scene. They were even electrically lit up. But one such piece that I looked at had a train consisting of a steam locomotive and a single passenger coach, and get this, the locomotive's coal tender was placed not where it should have been, but on the rear end of the passenger coach! The fireman whould have had to walk through the passenger coach for a scoop of coal!! I think this was made in some place like Taiwan where the gooks don't a whole lot about trains.

CANADIANPACIFIC2816

"There was a time in this fair land when the railroad did not run, when the wild majestic mountains stood alone against the sun, long before the white man and long before the wheel, when the green, dark forest was too silent to be real." Gordon Lightfoot

[Anonymous]

Im late coming to this little party but I gotta tell ya I dont have a problem with graffitti, not on my railroad.

You aint going to hear me sound off to the store just because there happens to be a decal with graffitti or a car with it. I see it as buyer's choice.

No graffitti no problem. But... I dont mind if someone else thought they can have it on thier railroad. The kind I think of is the small chalk written into the boxcar like "Hobo Loves Jane" or something of that nature kindergarden style, not the really fancy spray paints that I see as gang related in some cities around the USA.

But I would say something to the Walmart Boss because this would promote to the masses who are not aware of the danger of trains.

The railroads can try to keep the cars rolling, kinda hard to spray paint something that is loaded and moving.

BTW what does that graffitti say on that yellow car anyway? Looks like some kind of pink blob to my eyes. Yuck!

[SchemerBob]

I can't believe this thread started up again. Well, the unit trains that go through here (coal and intermodal) are usually spotless. Perhaps once in a while 2 or three cars with graffiti on them. It's the mixed trains where you see all of the graffiti. Whether it's rust, or graffiti, in my opinion this just shows how the railroads keep using things year after year. When we wreck a car, we just want to sell it and buy a new spotless one, right? When the railroads wreck a car, they may dispose of it (if it's beyond repair), or they fix it and it travels down the rails for a couple more decades. Locomotives are still on the rails that are more than 30 years old (some even older than that!). Some freight cars are still running which were built in the 50s (just look at the month and date next to the BLT abbriviations). I don't think many people today would keep an auto for that long.

[StillGrande]

NYC, PC, NW, etc logos are still visible, through the "new" paint,  Last week I saw the first plainly visible NYC logo on a boxcar I have seen in a while, but I haven't watched as many trains over the last year as I normally do. I did see a couple of PC boxcars last month.

I can show you a whole yard full of NYC painted stuff.  Benning Yard (CSX - Washington DC) holds coal hoppers (empty and full) there for area plants.  CSX and NS used the old reporting marks to divvy up Conrail. 

There is a difference between wanting to have a clean car and being able to protect thousands of pieces of rolling stock, plus locomotives.  Debris may also be another reason why they prefer the public stay off the ROW and out of the yards.  Not the right image (Of course, brainless wonders getting hit by trains doesn't help either!).  I don't see much rust going by around here.  Maybe one in 30.  Actually, I have been amazed at the lack of grafitti on cars I would expect to see it on in the past. 

[Anonymous]

Well, it's not exactly the same thing, but if my car was as rusty and as pitiful looking as some of the cars I see everyday, it wouldn't bother me all that much. I would kind of think it was funny actually. I saw an older hopper this morning at the local grain elevator what was nearly 100% rusted or rust stained, the only parts that weren't were the newly applied number and the patch of undecipherable blue and black grafitti on it.

There are toys of all kinds that simulate things you might not like, but it's not all that big of a deal, IMO. There are cars that are replicas of "street racers",  all kinds of weaponry,  games that are really violent, etc, some of which you may disagree with. So don't buy them. As far as real grafitti goes, it's a non issue, it's been around far longer than you or I have been alive, and will be around long after we are gone.

[wallyworld]

I think these toys are a bad idea. Put the shoe on the other foot. We are talking about private property. If I had artistic leanings and decided to decorate your automobile at 3 am with spray painted improvements like "Bite Me" without your permission, what sort of rationalization could I offer you that would smooth over the situation? I suspect not much.
I don't think that an indirect sanctioning of vandalism by a retailer is warranted or cute.

[Anonymous]

I find all the anger over grafitti pretty funny, coming from an industry that allows locos to become so dirty that it's hard to tell what railroad it belongs to (A Toledo area CSX loco a few years ago), cars that are so rusty they appear to be sprayed with some sort of orange paint (Hundreds of cars), and cars unpainted for so long that the NYC, PC, NW, etc logos are still visible, through the "new" paint, or because the peeling paint, probably badly applied, is coming off, and the old paint is showing through. Last week I saw the first plainly visible NYC logo on a boxcar I have seen in a while, but I haven't watched as many trains over the last year as I normally do. I did see a couple of PC boxcars last month.

Then there are the piles of rotted ties lying around, old rusty rail, etc, boarded up towers, and crossings that are rough as hell, etc.

And they are actually worried about grafitti? Because it looks bad? Sure, some or even most of it does, but some of it shows undeniable talent. If the railroads had perfect paint, stuff was clean, and the right of way was spotless, I could see them crying about grafitti. But since they don't, the whining about grafitti is pointless, and kind of a joke. I'd rather see a hopper with "BITE ME" go by than one of the endless rusted hulks I normally see.

[Train Guy 3]

Just another company using the bad to promote a sale. At walmart you can even pick up the spray paint to go with your new "art work" toy. I was glad when I saw trains back in a stores like Walmart a few years back and I glad that they are still expanding the line but they should have dropped this idea at the drawing board. However it seems the graffiti is part of the everyday real world. Even model railroaders I know make graffiti model for their layouts despite the fact that they hate graffiti on trains. I guess it's just whatever floats your boat..........

[ericsp]

At first this started about the graffitied freight cars. Then it to into a Wal-Mart bashing for what 3 pages! Then we started to go back to the cars. Now I like when these cars were released because I bought the earlier ones and were happy about it. Then they disappeared. Now here in Hanford we don't have any place to buy trains except maybe during Christmas at Walmart. With current gas prices I can't go to Fresno or Visalia to buy them like I would want to.

Also about Walmart killing downtowns, show me a place where I can buy things after 5 pm?

None of the hobby shops in the San Joaquin Valley are worth driving to from out of town, even if gasoline was $1.00/gallon. There used to be some good ones, but they all closed, or downsized their train departments.

[BNSF_GP60M]

At first this started about the graffitied freight cars. Then it to into a Wal-Mart bashing for what 3 pages! Then we started to go back to the cars. Now I like when these cars were released because I bought the earlier ones and were happy about it. Then they disappeared. Now here in Hanford we don't have any place to buy trains except maybe during Christmas at Walmart. With current gas prices I can't go to Fresno or Visalia to buy them like I would want to.

Also about Walmart killing downtowns, show me a place where I can buy things after 5 pm?

[Andrew Falconer]

On the Simpsons they have a parody of the Tom and Jerry Show called The Itchy and Scratchy Show. Check it out, there they show the gore that would have happened if Tom and Jerry did not recover from their twisted chases.

Andrew

[SchemerBob]

Chad - they are toys. If anything they are TT scale.

Oh OK, Then I will not be buying any...Back to decaling...

Unfortunately, yes. These trains won't mean very much to you unless you hopped aboard in 2001, when the series first came out. That's when I got into them, so today I have quite a bit of this stuff (and that was before they painted graffiti on them). These trains can be considered models...they are the only toy I have seen that gets so close to being accurate. There are a few slight mess-ups, but if you're not looking at it closely, you'll be suprised at how real they look! I hope Wal-Mart puts out sets again this Christmas because they give you much more than you really need to get started (including TONS of track) for only 10 bucks; a real bargain considering the actual quality of these things.

One thing I've noticed...these trains are only painted in the paint schemes of fallen flag railroads (with the exceptions of the Alaska and CSX), probably so they don't have to get permission. Still, I like them a lot.

[chad thomas]

Chad - they are toys. If anything they are TT scale.

Oh OK, Then I will not be buying any...Back to decaling...

[One Track Mind]

Chad - they are toys. If anything they are TT scale.

[Murphy Siding]

I am not holding my breath. Is this wallmart car an actual scale model (HO,O,ect)? Or just a toy.

     Picky! Picky!  Next you'll want it decorated with real cow poo!

[chad thomas]

I am not holding my breath. Is this wallmart car an actual scale model (HO,O,ect)? Or just a toy.

[Murphy Siding]

 do it myself. I have several cars dressed in graffiti. It's a fact of life and I like my stuff to look realistic.

     Yikes!  What do your stock cars look like?

Not sure what you mean. I model the 90s and don't have any stock cars. My graffitied cars are mostly ACF covered hoppers with a few boxcars done too. I mostly just put subtle decals on them but I have hand painted a couple with big graffiti too. All my other stuff is graffiti free but I am thinking of doing a couple autoracks.

     I wondered if you covered them with realistic looking *cow poo*?

That's where I draw the line.

     So you're just holding out until Walmart comes out with realistic looking stock car?

[chad thomas]

 do it myself. I have several cars dressed in graffiti. It's a fact of life and I like my stuff to look realistic.

     Yikes!  What do your stock cars look like?

Not sure what you mean. I model the 90s and don't have any stock cars. My graffitied cars are mostly ACF covered hoppers with a few boxcars done too. I mostly just put subtle decals on them but I have hand painted a couple with big graffiti too. All my other stuff is graffiti free but I am thinking of doing a couple autoracks.

     I wondered if you covered them with realistic looking *cow poo*?

That's where I draw the line.

[Murphy Siding]

 do it myself. I have several cars dressed in graffiti. It's a fact of life and I like my stuff to look realistic.

     Yikes!  What do your stock cars look like?

Not sure what you mean. I model the 90s and don't have any stock cars. My graffitied cars are mostly ACF covered hoppers with a few boxcars done too. I mostly just put subtle decals on them but I have hand painted a couple with big graffiti too. All my other stuff is graffiti free but I am thinking of doing a couple autoracks.

     I wondered if you covered them with realistic looking *cow poo*?

[chad thomas]

 do it myself. I have several cars dressed in graffiti. It's a fact of life and I like my stuff to look realistic.

     Yikes!  What do your stock cars look like?

Not sure what you mean. I model the 90s and don't have any stock cars. My graffitied cars are mostly ACF covered hoppers with a few boxcars done too. I mostly just put subtle decals on them but I have hand painted a couple with big graffiti too. All my other stuff is graffiti free but I am thinking of doing a couple autoracks.

[Murphy Siding]

 do it myself. I have several cars dressed in graffiti. It's a fact of life and I like my stuff to look realistic.

     Yikes!  What do your stock cars look like?

[chad thomas]

Well I wish they would produce more pre graffitied cars so I don't have to do it myself. I have several cars dressed in graffiti. It's a fact of life and I like my stuff to look realistic.

If you let the colors on a model influence your criminal activities you got real issues and can't blame the model. Blame the parents, blame the environment, blame the influence of the people they surround themselves with, but don't blame the model. That's just plain lame.

[SchemerBob]

Funny you should bring this up, but I stopped in last night on the way home from work to check on the new Malibu International 1:87 Cars and trucks when I looked to the end of the aisle and notice a boxcar.  As I walked up to it, I too had mixed fealings and wondered who the heck would buy such a thing.  What really amazed me was that there was only one left.  The one I saw was a NYC Boxcar.  Heck, maybe we can look on the bright side and only hope that they young troubled teenager who likes taging and what not, will buy these cars and fall in love with Model Railroading.  Then gain a great appreciation and respect for railroad property.  Well, it's far fetched but you never know. 

A NYC boxcar? Wow, I didn't see that one!

[zgardner18]

Funny you should bring this up, but I stopped in last night on the way home from work to check on the new Malibu International 1:87 Cars and trucks when I looked to the end of the aisle and notice a boxcar.  As I walked up to it, I too had mixed fealings and wondered who the heck would buy such a thing.  What really amazed me was that there was only one left.  The one I saw was a NYC Boxcar.  Heck, maybe we can look on the bright side and only hope that they young troubled teenager who likes taging and what not, will buy these cars and fall in love with Model Railroading.  Then gain a great appreciation and respect for railroad property.  Well, it's far fetched but you never know. 

[SchemerBob]

Actually, The Tom & Jerry Show and soft porn nudes have one thing in common shocking behavior that has unrealistic consequences.

Graffitti Cars let everyone know that you can paint a car and get away with it, if you are in the right place at the right time. The police will not catch you, unless somebody complains about your tresspassing and vandalisim.

Andrew

WHAT? ?

For pete's sake, I don't know where you get that. I have just about every original Tom & Jerry show on tape and there is nothing wrong with them. The part they are cutting out shows Tom smoking. At first you wouldn't want that on a cartoon, because, after all, it is sort of "promoting" something that is bad. But you also have to look at it this way: the Tom & Jerry cartoons were produced from the early 40s to the end of the 60s. That's just the way people were back then. Most people did not even consider smoking a bad thing. If you did think that was bad, then just don't smoke, but realize that people did that back then.

These graffiti freight cars are the exact same thing. At first you wouldn't want that on a freight car, because, after all, it is sort of "promoting" something that is bad. But you also have to look at it this way: these cars are based on real freight cars you see on the freight trains today. THAT'S JUST REAL LIFE. Some people don't even think graffiti is wrong (I'm not one of those people). If you do think it's bad, then just don't spray paint on freight cars, but realize that it does happen and it's just the way things are. The only reason I purchased my Enamelized freight cars was that they looked cool because they look realistic. I would never think of doing that in real life, because it's just not right. Sometimes in life, you just have to use some common sense.

[Andrew Falconer]

Actually, The Tom & Jerry Show and soft porn nudes have one thing in common shocking behavior that has unrealistic consequences.

Graffitti Cars let everyone know that you can paint a car and get away with it, if you are in the right place at the right time. The police will not catch you, unless somebody complains about your tresspassing and vandalisim.

Andrew

[SchemerBob]

If you do think these cars are bad (personally I think there is nothing wrong with them), now we're cutting Tom & Jerry cartoons because they show Tom smoking.

Oh, PLEEEASE.

Everybody is too conservative to sell the Boxcars and Auto Carriers with the graffitti of nude women. It is just nude women represented by the graffitti. Why not let us have more exciting grafitti to shock visitors to the layouts. We need more striking visuals on the model railroad, or it will just be too boring for people who do not get railroading.

Andrew

That's not what I meant and you know it.

[Poppa_Zit]

Well in my line of work, we have a saying....

"Alcohol and stupid people are the main reasons I have job security" 

Union, non union, it doesn't matter, so long as those two ingredients are present in society (especially when they mix)  there will ALWAYS be work for me...

Then you must be happier than a pig in slop when the Bears play.

[edblysard]

No, Anti, your not obligated to do a thing...

Dont know where you got that, other than you are attempting to pick an argument.

Point is they do offer jobs.

No insurance in most cases, and low wages, but employement at least for the "marginal" citizen who other wise would be a total drain on the system.

Without the Walmarts, KMarts and such, these people would have little choice but to survive off of the welfare system.

You indicated that I was a social worker, and some how responsible for sending people to Walmart to shop...not true on either count.

I am glad they offer jobs, cruddy jobs, but jobs none the less.

The alternative is pretty expensive to you and I, the taxpayer.

The buy American routine is a myth, you really cant do that.

Half of your Chevy, Dodge or Ford car is made in Mexico or Canada...the tires come from Japan...your home air conditioning unit is made in Mexico, even though it says TRANE USA on the outside...as is your GE icebox and range...

Even your toilet paper is, for the most part, imported.

The problem is America has gotten away from being an industrial and agricultural based nation, and becomeing a nation of service providers and service consumers…we don’t really build things here anymore.

Shoot, even Amana, the first company to offer home microwave ovens, gave it up…

I would bet that over half, if not all of the components in the computer that you are reading this on are made anywhere but in the US.

 

[Anonymous]

, or the store sells cheap cookware, you might want to think about this…at least they work, and pay into the system, when they could easily get a ride on the welfare train and live on your dime.

 

Gee Ed, so you are trying to say I am OBLIGATED to buy Walmarts crappy cookware BECAUSE IF I DON'T, their employees might become disadvantaged?


Sorry old man, ain't a gonna happen.

If anything, I wish consumers were better informed of the "big picture" costs incurred as the by product of making those (seeming) walmart bargains available to them.

[Poppa_Zit]

 

Is Walmart and the other big box stores part of the problem?

 

Sure, but so are the thousand of other employers who do not provide health insurance.

Couple thoughts.

First, I think we've more than identified the problem. Let's look at possible solutions, or why a solution is so difficult.

Let me say I'm not an elitist, and I don't sneer or look down at anyone who works at Wal Mart. While some people depend on their Wal Mart job as fulltime employment, a percentage of WM employees are part-time students and seniors. So we're not talking about 100 percent of the Wal Mart workforce here.  

1) What Wal Mart and any others are doing is not illegal. Unethical, yes, but not illegal. Why does the system allow them to continue to get away with it?

2) Why is health insurance so expensive in the first place? Should we be asking an attorney for the answer?

3) Why has the government failed in providing affordable health care for everyone, if indeed it is the government's responsibility at all?

4) The nation will always have a workforce of "working poor," no matter how many dollars and government programs we throw at it.

5) If we raise the minimum wage, businesses will simply lay off employees and make the remaining employees do more work to make up the difference.

6) And the statement for which I'll probably take the most pipe: No one HAS to work for Wal Mart. If you need a job with benefits, then don't work for Wal Mart.

For most people in this country, taxpayers make a school system available for free so anyone can learn a skill -- any skill -- that would make them more valuable to an employer. If you can do nothing more than put boxes on shelves, either the system has failed you or you've failed yourself.

"But if they didn't work for Wal Mart, they'd be unemployed," someone will say. "And as taxpayers we'll still be covering their healthcare."

So which is better? Paying only for their healthcare and having them be fractionally productive by working at Wal Mart, or putting them on full unemployment AND welfare as well as paying for their healthcare?

Or is there another workable solution?    

[Andrew Falconer]

This discussion is not as clear headed as what was accomplished on the Model Railroader Forum.

[edblysard]

True, Poppa,

But then affordable health insurance is not an option for over 10 million working Americans.

Add in the cradle to grave section of our society which lives almost exclusively off the taxpayer largess, and the cost to your federal government is staggering.

But the discussion was inclined towards WalMart specifically, so…

 

But the truth be told, most blue collar workers have no choice but to use publicly funded hospitals and emergency rooms as their first line health care provider.

 

Here is a dollar amount from when I was part of the system.

By the way, a part of the system that recovered the money, not the part handing it out.

 

The figures are from the Office of the Attorney General, State of Texas, oversight and fraud recovery committee's system evaluation for 1995.

 

Here are some, but not all of the benefits.

In 1995 a custodial parent with two children could receive benefits valued on average of $3000.00 per month…including, but not limited to monthly checks, one for themselves and one for each of the kids at $375.00 each check, food stamps, on average of $600.00, HUD housing that would allow them to live in a two bedroom apartment that normally would rent in the $900.00 per month bracket, but they pays $50.00, a utility cap adjustment that guarantees the light bill is no more than $40.00 per month, day care for the kids, estimated at $100.00 per week per child, transportation to and from the daycare, breakfast and lunch provided.

(they are unemployed, so why do they need daycare?)

Free breakfast and lunch at the public school.

Medicade services, and zero cost to them for emergency room visits, including medicines and out patient services, canes, crutches, walkers, wheel chairs, hospital beds at home, the list goes on for several pages.

(ever wonder why your emergency room at your local hospital is so crowded, but most of the people there only have a cold?)

 

In Harris County, the largest county in Texas, back then there were 10 DHHS offices, staffed by on average 60 intake case officers whose sole job was to certify applicants for benefits.

By law, they can not turn you away, and by policy, they had to see at least one client per hour.

10 offices times 60 officers is 600 officers times a 8 hour work day is 4800 clients per day, ¾ of those clients seen are re-certifications, (they are already in the system and receiving benefits) ¼ are new cases, or 1200 new welfare clients per day, times 5 days a week is 6000 per week, or 24000 per month in one county, in one state.

 

If each only qualified for half of the average benefits, then you spend $ 36,000000.00 per month in tax dollars in one county alone.

In a year….?

Multiply that by New York, Chicago, LA, Portland, Miami, New Orleans and most of Louisiana, every major population center in the US, and you get to the point the dollar figure is incomprehensible to the average person, you have never seen that many zeros after a dollar amount.

 

Place that next to the minimum wage earner, who, if they work more that 30 hours in a week, or own a car less than 10 years old, or live with their parents, go to school or college, and do not qualify for any of the money benefits, and only some of the medical benefits.

Let’s see…around $3000.00 in free benefits a month, including medical, to not have a job, or $618.00 a month in earned wages and some limited medical benefits for those who choose to work.

Hard choice, huh…

 

The system is busted, and has been for a long time.

Those that truly need the help, and try and better themselves, don’t qualify.

Those that do nothing to help themselves, except show up hat in had every three months made more, and live better than someone who works.

 

Next time you walk into a WalMart, Kmart, or any “big box” store and decide the minimum wage earner stocking the shelves or running the register is a little beneath you, or sneer at them because they have less that perfect English skills or a funny accent, or the store sells cheap cookware, you might want to think about this…at least they work, and pay into the system, when they could easily get a ride on the welfare train and live on your dime.

 

Is Walmart and the other big box stores part of the problem?

 

Sure, but so are the thousand of other employers who do not provide health insurance.

 

[zugmann]

And as such a large company, they should not be dependent on us (citizens) subsidizing their employees.

[Poppa_Zit]

Actually, Anti…

My former job with the Office of the Attorney General, State of Texas, was as a child support investigator and AFDC, Aid to Families with Dependent Children (welfare) fraud recovery.

I found and helped prosecute the folks who failed to pay their court ordered child support, the lack of which is one of the reasons the custodial parent will turn to the welfare system for help.

And I investigated and helped prosecute those who received welfare dollars and services through fraud.

Kinda a twofer….I caught you if you fail to pay, and I got you if you cheated the system and took federal money illegally.

 

In a way, I put money back into your government's coffers, instead of helping take it out.

Or at least help stop some of the draining of federal funds.

 

I believe you might have me confused with someone who worked for DHHS, the Department of Health and Human Services, (now the Health and Human Services Commission, or HHSC) whose main job is to certify and enroll anyone they can into the federally funded welfare and healthcare system.

Remember, in Federal Government jobs, numbers count, not people.

 

Trust me, the employees at WalMart are very well acquainted with the good folks at DHHS, as that is where the majority of them turn to receive their health insurance, health care, and food stamps, because WalMart doesn’t offer such benefits as health insurance at rates the minimum wage earner can afford.

 

You the tax payer are subsidizing WalMart through your tax contributions to the welfare system.

 

Ed

Ed, the first seven jobs I had included no benefits. No health insurance, no sick days, nada. But they were all low-level jobs that required little or no training -- like most positions at Wal Mart. So somebody subsidized me until I could return the favor after I had learned enough skills to be of more value to an employer and therefore earn a true "living wage."

I'm not saying what Wal Mart does is right -- I just want everyone to realize it's not the only company that does not offer benefits -- but is always singled out because it is such a large, easy, convenient target. 

[Poppa_Zit]

Poppa Z -

I read about that Chicago business in the newspaper here in Milwaukee.  Some of my liberal friends here in the city were overjoyed that someone had discovered a way to combat the evil that was descending upon them in the form of Wal-Mart.  Acolades all around!  Our great thinkers have found a way!!!!  Of course no one mentioned that this will result in the loss of other jobs as well.  Will this ridiculous requirement harm the rest of the economy in the Chicago area as well? 

 

Probably not. It will just slide the sales and real estate taxes to other communities. Funny thing, when they interviewed for jobs at the new Wal Mart in Evergreen Park -- right across the street from Chicago, by the way -- over 25,000 people applied for 375 jobs.

And after it opened, most of its shoppers were coming over the border from Chicago. So while 50 aldermen (salary about $115,000 for a part-time job) have a problem with what Wal Mart is paying its employees, 25,000 of their constituents do not.  

[edblysard]

Actually, Anti…

My former job with the Office of the Attorney General, State of Texas, was as a child support investigator and AFDC, Aid to Families with Dependent Children (welfare) fraud recovery.

I found and helped prosecute the folks who failed to pay their court ordered child support, the lack of which is one of the reasons the custodial parent will turn to the welfare system for help.

And I investigated and helped prosecute those who received welfare dollars and services through fraud.

Kinda a twofer….I caught you if you fail to pay, and I got you if you cheated the system and took federal money illegally.

 

In a way, I put money back into your government's coffers, instead of helping take it out.

Or at least help stop some of the draining of federal funds.

 

I believe you might have me confused with someone who worked for DHHS, the Department of Health and Human Services, (now the Health and Human Services Commission, or HHSC) whose main job is to certify and enroll anyone they can into the federally funded welfare and healthcare system.

Remember, in Federal Government jobs, numbers count, not people.

 

Trust me, the employees at WalMart are very well acquainted with the good folks at DHHS, as that is where the majority of them turn to receive their health insurance, health care, and food stamps, because WalMart doesn’t offer such benefits as health insurance at rates the minimum wage earner can afford.

You the tax payer are subsidizing WalMart through your tax contributions to the welfare system.

 

Ed

They sell cookware at WalMart?

Cool...gotta go get me some, and learn to cook.

Being the experienced social worker that you are, you've probably helped channel more money into the Walmart till than any other member here.

[TimChgo9]

Well in my line of work, we have a saying....

"Alcohol and stupid people are the main reasons I have job security" 

Union, non union, it doesn't matter, so long as those two ingredients are present in society (especially when they mix)  there will ALWAYS be work for me...

[Anonymous]

Yes, and of course all the rumors about Walmart killing the mom and pop merchants in the areas when Walmart first opens a store are pure manufactured lies, concocted by  unamerican progressives who  refuse to tolerate success of any form.

[Anonymous]

They sell cookware at WalMart?

Cool...gotta go get me some, and learn to cook.

Being the experienced social worker that you are, you've probably helped channel more money into the Walmart till than any other member here.

[SchemerBob]

If you do think these cars are bad (personally I think there is nothing wrong with them), now we're cutting Tom & Jerry cartoons because they show Tom smoking.

Oh, PLEEEASE.

[solzrules]

Pick up some of those grafitti railcars while you're at it!

Poppa Z -

I read about that Chicago business in the newspaper here in Milwaukee.  Some of my liberal friends here in the city were overjoyed that someone had discovered a way to combat the evil that was descending upon them in the form of Wal-Mart.  Acolades all around!  Our great thinkers have found a way!!!!  Of course no one mentioned that this will result in the loss of other jobs as well.  Will this ridiculous requirement harm the rest of the economy in the Chicago area as well? 

 

They sell cookware at WalMart?

Cool...gotta go get me some, and learn to cook.

Ed

Not just "cheap products"...CHEAP, CRAPPY PRODUCTS!!

UPDATE - Yesterday I purchased all 6 "Enamelized" freight cars at Wal-Mart. Yes, I know I'm probably going to be beaten up because of that, but I don't really see what's wrong with them. I have a lot of these same trains (engines, accessories, track), and I heard about these cars and thought they would be a perfect, realistic addition to my collection.

First of all, THESE TRAINS ARE NOT EVEN CLOSE TO "CRAPPY"!! EVERY car's main body is die cast metal with plastic parts. If you aren't careful with them, sure they're going to get busted, but isn't that how everything is? What I would call "crappy" are those HO train sets they have during Christmastime....every car is plastic!

I realize I may be supporting something that is not good (Wal-Mart), but that's the only place you can get them, so you don't really have a choice. IMHO these trains are very well made and they are at a reasonable price. What else is there to say?

More power to you Bob.  It is possible to find some quality mechandise inside a walmart.

Selling the top brands is NOT what made walmart ubiquitous though.

Hey, if I wanted to buy a bare bones fish net for one season, as cheaply as possible, and realize that I'd be throwing it away and getting a new one next year, then i'd probably go to walmart for it. THAT is the mentality they serve...best.

Look at the cookware sold a Wallyworld tha pots, pans and skillets, they don't have a quality offering in the store.

I will go shopping at Walmart when I can't find what i'm looking for anywhere else, but the last time I went there looking for cookware, I laughed my way out of the store, it was all like rummage sale cookware, without the scratches.

I do buy my soda pop there, made in america and cheaper than anywhere else,  other than the 6 time per year blow outs, at Kroger.

I'd rather buy quality products from a local mom and pop merchant, anyday

[edblysard]

They sell cookware at WalMart?

Cool...gotta go get me some, and learn to cook.

Ed

Not just "cheap products"...CHEAP, CRAPPY PRODUCTS!!

UPDATE - Yesterday I purchased all 6 "Enamelized" freight cars at Wal-Mart. Yes, I know I'm probably going to be beaten up because of that, but I don't really see what's wrong with them. I have a lot of these same trains (engines, accessories, track), and I heard about these cars and thought they would be a perfect, realistic addition to my collection.

First of all, THESE TRAINS ARE NOT EVEN CLOSE TO "CRAPPY"!! EVERY car's main body is die cast metal with plastic parts. If you aren't careful with them, sure they're going to get busted, but isn't that how everything is? What I would call "crappy" are those HO train sets they have during Christmastime....every car is plastic!

I realize I may be supporting something that is not good (Wal-Mart), but that's the only place you can get them, so you don't really have a choice. IMHO these trains are very well made and they are at a reasonable price. What else is there to say?

More power to you Bob.  It is possible to find some quality mechandise inside a walmart.

Selling the top brands is NOT what made walmart ubiquitous though.

Hey, if I wanted to buy a bare bones fish net for one season, as cheaply as possible, and realize that I'd be throwing it away and getting a new one next year, then i'd probably go to walmart for it. THAT is the mentality they serve...best.

Look at the cookware sold a Wallyworld tha pots, pans and skillets, they don't have a quality offering in the store.

I will go shopping at Walmart when I can't find what i'm looking for anywhere else, but the last time I went there looking for cookware, I laughed my way out of the store, it was all like rummage sale cookware, without the scratches.

I do buy my soda pop there, made in america and cheaper than anywhere else,  other than the 6 time per year blow outs, at Kroger.

I'd rather buy quality products from a local mom and pop merchant, anyday

[zugmann]

Wal-Mart didn't kill downtown...

Drive-thru banks did.

[Poppa_Zit]

Wal Mart offers a wide variety of quality levels, depending on the product. Is it too much to let the consumer make his/her own decision about the quality he/she needs, or do our buttinski, anti-Wall Mart Liberals insist on eliminating that freedom of choice? If we allow that to happen, are we any better than the other target of Liberal ire, China? If the WM products are so dadgum crappy, why do people keep buying them? Trailers are no match for brick-and-mortar homes, so why don't we pass legislation outlawing trailers? I abhor arrogant people who have anointed themselves decision-makers for everyone else.  

Wal Mart is an easy target because of its size. Wal Mart is an easy target because of where many of its products originate. Its size (economy of scale) is what allows it the selling/bargaining power it enjoys. I get tired of hearing the bleating about "Wal Mart has ruined Main Street America," etc. Put that in a category with "air travel ruined passenger trains" and "the automobile ruined the buggy business" and "railroads stole the jobs of canal workers."

Right now, we have a large group of Chicago aldermen who have passed a "Big Box" law for businesses with 75,000 square feet of floor space or more. The law says any business this size or larger must pay its employees a "living wage" -- $10 an hour minimum plus benefits. Wal Mart, Target and Lowes have canceled their plans for stores (which provide jobs) within the Chicago city limits. Existing stores (and several warehouse and manufacturing facilities) are also talking about moving out of the city. This in addition to a City of Chicago "head tax" on employees imposed many years ago ($4 a month per employee in businesses with over 50 employees).

The aldermen may thus score a "victory of principle" but the stores will still open -- in suburbs just outside the city limits who will gather all of the sale tax revenue. That shortfall will be made up in higher real estate tax bills for Chicago residents. Which apparently does not bother the aldermen. 

So the battle goes on, a battle no one will win. 

 

     

[Anonymous]

As a graduate of the Oliver Stone Institute of Technology, my theory is that there must have been some overstocked spray paint and they were hoping this would spur sales.

LOL!!

[Anonymous]

Walmart ships very little by rail.  They built a distribution center in my area about 5 years ago.  It is less than 1/2 mile from a CSX mainline, but they did not build a spur.  Everything is trucked in and trucked out.  The roads are clogged with Walmart trucks.

I think it depends upon where in the distro chain that the warehouse falls, doesn't it?

Wallmart has gazillions of containers coming off boats that crossed the pacific, and lots of those hit the rails first.

Where tires  get slapped below those containers I have no clue.

[vsmith]

You know - this is better than prime time television - and a lot cheaper!

But you all missed a very important point.  They are selling graffiti covered rail cars, but is the original artist getting his commission and did they get written permission from him to use his art work? 

Moo?

[Anonymous]

Not just "cheap products"...CHEAP, CRAPPY PRODUCTS!!

UPDATE - Yesterday I purchased all 6 "Enamelized" freight cars at Wal-Mart. Yes, I know I'm probably going to be beaten up because of that, but I don't really see what's wrong with them. I have a lot of these same trains (engines, accessories, track), and I heard about these cars and thought they would be a perfect, realistic addition to my collection.

First of all, THESE TRAINS ARE NOT EVEN CLOSE TO "CRAPPY"!! EVERY car's main body is die cast metal with plastic parts. If you aren't careful with them, sure they're going to get busted, but isn't that how everything is? What I would call "crappy" are those HO train sets they have during Christmastime....every car is plastic!

I realize I may be supporting something that is not good (Wal-Mart), but that's the only place you can get them, so you don't really have a choice. IMHO these trains are very well made and they are at a reasonable price. What else is there to say?

More power to you Bob.  It is possible to find some quality mechandise inside a walmart.

Selling the top brands is NOT what made walmart ubiquitous though.

Hey, if I wanted to buy a bare bones fish net for one season, as cheaply as possible, and realize that I'd be throwing it away and getting a new one next year, then i'd probably go to walmart for it. THAT is the mentality they serve...best.

Look at the cookware sold a Wallyworld tha pots, pans and skillets, they don't have a quality offering in the store.

I will go shopping at Walmart when I can't find what i'm looking for anywhere else, but the last time I went there looking for cookware, I laughed my way out of the store, it was all like rummage sale cookware, without the scratches.

I do buy my soda pop there, made in america and cheaper than anywhere else,  other than the 6 time per year blow outs, at Kroger.

I'd rather buy quality products from a local mom and pop merchant, anyday

[One Track Mind]

As a graduate of the Oliver Stone Institute of Technology, my theory is that there must have been some overstocked spray paint and they were hoping this would spur sales.

[Mookie]

You know - this is better than prime time television - and a lot cheaper!

But you all missed a very important point.  They are selling graffiti covered rail cars, but is the original artist getting his commission and did they get written permission from him to use his art work? 

Moo?

[David_Telesha]

Guns have been known to be used in killing innocent people, but you don't see Walmart (or just about any other toy or department store for that matter) taking toy guns off of their shelves, do you?  No, well, lots of luck trying to get them to follow your arguement on graffiti on model rail cars!

Thats because, more people are killed per year by knives and in car accidents... And considering the number of accidents by responsible firearm owners (NOT CRIMINALS) is less than that of people injured playing badmitton, and statistically your chance of being shot at a range with responsible sportsman is less than of being struck by lightening, I don't see a point to your post... Then there's a little something called the 2nd Amendment....

Guns don't kill people -- people with cars, knives, fists, baseball bats, (etc) kill people..

P.S. Seeing how you said "toy" guns, I've never ever seen anyone shot and killed by a "toy". So whats your point?

[vsmith]

Well out here local communities have rallied together to PREVENT WallyWorld from building their sqaure mile Superstores that have a tendancy to kill entire nearby downtowns and surrounding retails centers. they have passed zoning regulations to prevent the giant stores from coming here, this is with the majority of support of the residents. We have enough Malls, CornerMalls, and MiniMalls they dont need stores the size of a Small City like this.

 

PS If I had to rely on Wally World to in order to participate in my chosen hobby....I wouldnt, cause they dont carry fckel!

[dekemd]

Walmart ships very little by rail.  They built a distribution center in my area about 5 years ago.  It is less than 1/2 mile from a CSX mainline, but they did not build a spur.  Everything is trucked in and trucked out.  The roads are clogged with Walmart trucks.

[Modelcar]

....M636C:  All your points are well taken and not doubted.  I suppose I must get back to the basics of what I am concerned with is simply here in the USA we have been famous and in many instances first...designing, developing and producing all kinds of products for more than a hundred years plus...

All aspects of that are now being siphoned off to cheap labor locations in the world and soon we will not have the buying power to even purchase these once "our" products.

Further more...in this vast world if we are weakened, the world will not be able to continue to call on us to be the world "protector" against all evil...!  Our super power strength will have to be pulled back to protecting more of our own interests in this changing environment....It goes on but we'll leave my comments at that for now and move on.....

[SchemerBob]

Not just "cheap products"...CHEAP, CRAPPY PRODUCTS!!

UPDATE - Yesterday I purchased all 6 "Enamelized" freight cars at Wal-Mart. Yes, I know I'm probably going to be beaten up because of that, but I don't really see what's wrong with them. I have a lot of these same trains (engines, accessories, track), and I heard about these cars and thought they would be a perfect, realistic addition to my collection.

First of all, THESE TRAINS ARE NOT EVEN CLOSE TO "CRAPPY"!! EVERY car's main body is die cast metal with plastic parts. If you aren't careful with them, sure they're going to get busted, but isn't that how everything is? What I would call "crappy" are those HO train sets they have during Christmastime....every car is plastic!

I realize I may be supporting something that is not good (Wal-Mart), but that's the only place you can get them, so you don't really have a choice. IMHO these trains are very well made and they are at a reasonable price. What else is there to say?

[M636C]

....Brian {Ia.}, I'm sure you are more informed on these matters than I am...{not in my field at all}, but the units are for none other than the Commander in Chief.....!  I don't remember what country it was but it was someplace in Europe.  The info was on the news some months ago.  Beat out an American co. on the project.

Oh, OK!  Yeah, that deal... since Lockheed Martin is doing the final assembly, they're putting in all the high-tech classified stuff; the overseas airframe manufacturer is just providing the bare-bones helicopter.

The Agusta Westland EH101 was the best aircraft for the job. The only real competitor was the Sikorsky S-92 which is basically only a prototype, although it was based on the S-70 (Blackhawk and Seahawk) which are well established.

The EH101 is in service in Canada (where it won a competition with Bell who build in Canada, and Sikorsky) Both Agusta and Westland have built US helicopters (both Sikorsky and Bell) under licence and have several designs of their own in European military service, as well as the EH101 used by the British Navy, British Army and the Italian Navy and Army.

This isn't a matter of low priced workers stealing jobs from the US. The Westland workers in Yeovil are probably paid more than the Sikorsky workers in Connecticut. The EH 101 is bigger than the S-92 and has three engines to the S-92's two. This can only be safer and the engines are the same, GE T700s built in the USA. The value of US components in every EH101 might be half the cost of the aircraft anyway, when electronics , hydraulics and engines are counted.

The EH101 provides a safe and reliable transport for the President of the USA which we all want, regardless of our political leanings. The current VIP helicopters, VH-3 Sea Kings date back to the 1950s and need replacement. The EH101 was designed to replace Westland - built Sea Kings, and is the best currently available.

To get a bit further back on topic, Wal-Mart aren't alone in buying Chinese and other imported merchandise. You will find imported products in the high priced stores as well. You choose by spending your money. I just bought a USA made washing machine rather than one from Asia. It cost me the same, but I got a machine that was simple and robust without a digital timer display and with only three selector knobs. And I don't live in the USA!

M636C

[eolafan]

Guns have been known to be used in killing innocent people, but you don't see Walmart (or just about any other toy or department store for that matter) taking toy guns off of their shelves, do you?  No, well, lots of luck trying to get them to follow your arguement on graffiti on model rail cars!

[blhanel]

....Brian {Ia.}, I'm sure you are more informed on these matters than I am...{not in my field at all}, but the units are for none other than the Commander in Chief.....!  I don't remember what country it was but it was someplace in Europe.  The info was on the news some months ago.  Beat out an American co. on the project.

Oh, OK!  Yeah, that deal... since Lockheed Martin is doing the final assembly, they're putting in all the high-tech classified stuff; the overseas airframe manufacturer is just providing the bare-bones helicopter.

[selector]

FYI, I checked at my local WalMart this afternoon and was told they sold out of the train cars in question.  There was a bare spot on the shelf where the cars were supposed to be.

 

Someone once stated that the voice of the people is the voice of God.  If people are voicing their desire to take advantage of a good thing (as they define it....still a choice, last I heard), and they speak with their wallets at Wal-Mart, who are we to tell them they're wrong?

  Maybe God should.

[Modelcar]

...On new President helicopter: Info on the internet now says it is patterned after an existing European built...Agusta Westland Eh101

Lockeed Martin is involved in build...I can't see anymore details in this article here on the "net'...As I indicated above...The report was back some months ago our American Co was beat out to design the new aircraft for the fleet update and now it looks like the assembly will be by Lockeed Martin...Don't say where...23 units to be built.

[solzrules]

From the cities? Are you trying to play some  "pizz him off and hope he trips himself up wrestling with semantics" playground game here?

That's an interesting choice of wording there. Yeah it's the factories moving to old mcdonalds farm that bothers me.

No I gave up on that game a while ago. 

Many of the factories in the city that I am referring to (Milwaukee) went out of business in the 70's due to un-competitive labor practices.  Others left for the union free areas of the state, and when the taxes caught up with them they left for me-hi-co.  The ones that survived to this day survive only because they own or contract with companies overseas to do a big chunk of their manufacturing.  One example is Allen-Bradly.  They started in Milwaukee in the 1920's (I think).  Today they do most of their R and D and administration in Wisconsin, but the majority of their manufacturing is in Mexico and China.  There is a small amount of production in their original facility downtown, but not what there used to be.  It is a similar situation with A.O. Smith.  Their coporate offices are here but their manufacturing is in Mexico.  They did this to remain competitive.  And the only way to be competitive and survive is to make profits. 

I dunno about you, but among my friends who lost their jobs to outsourcing, the vast lions share lost their jobs in the 90's

I am not familiar with the situation of your friends, I am only referring to my limited knowledge of Milwaukee's history.  What were your friends involved in? 

As far as Walmart being a big customer of the railroads.....so?  Is that supposed to influence where I buy my toothpaste?

Maybe I should review all my purchases, and cut out the items transported by CSX, until they pull their heads out of their collective rears and paint some bridges? 

No, Wal-Mart's use of the RR's wouldn't affect my shopping there, either.  But think of all the work that moving Wal-Mart's merchandise from China to distribution centers in the US is giving to unionized RR workers and teamsters?  Think of the jobs that the dock workers are getting and the longshoremen.  These are all high paying union jobs.  So were one industry suffers and downsizes another industry expands and hires.  Being that the railroads are benefitting from increased intermodal and freight in general, I think it is great!  There isn't a better time to watch trains.  When manufacturing left this country the RR's suffered, but now that we are buying Chinese goods like they are going out of style the railroads are having a field day.  Boo-ya!  Okay, I go to bed now.  

 

[Modelcar]

....Brian {Ia.}, I'm sure you are more informed on these matters than I am...{not in my field at all}, but the units are for none other than the Commander in Chief.....!  I don't remember what country it was but it was someplace in Europe.  The info was on the news some months ago.  Beat out an American co. on the project.

[One Track Mind]

Wal-Mart started in 1962. Very little if any Wal-Mart goods are hauled by rail.

[Murphy Siding]

Maybe I should review all my purchases, and cut out the items transported by CSX, until they pull their heads out of their collective rears and paint some bridges? 

     But........if  CSX bought their "krappe", cheap paint at Walmart, maybe they could afford to paint those bridges?

[Anonymous]

  Most heavy industry and manufacturing began their flight from the cities in the mid to late seventies 

Not only that, it seems to me that Wal-Mart is actually a pretty big customer of the railroads, aren't they?   

From the cities? Are you trying to play some  "pizz him off and hope he trips himself up wrestling with semantics" playground game here?

That's an interesting choice of wording there. Yeah it's the factories moving to old mcdonalds farm that bothers me.

I dunno about you, but among my friends who lost their jobs to outsourcing, the vast lions share lost their jobs in the 90's

As far as Walmart being a big customer of the railroads.....so?  Is that supposed to influence where I buy my toothpaste?

Maybe I should review all my purchases, and cut out the items transported by CSX, until they pull their heads out of their collective rears and paint some bridges? 

[solzrules]

One can only wonder how many of those poor low income people who can only afford to shop at walmart, are in fact poor because their previous job manufacturing store merchandise, was offshored?

a self feeding decline in action.

And that is a bit of circular reasoning don't you think?  They are poor because Wal-Mart drove their former employers overseas and now they have to shop at Wal-Mart?

Actually, Wal-Mart started their coporate tyrannical quest for profits in the eighties and perfected it in the nineties right?  Most heavy industry and manufacturing began their flight from the cities in the mid to late seventies (the Milwaukee Road fell victim to this).  I don't think Wal-Mart even existed in the seventies. 

Not only that, it seems to me that Wal-Mart is actually a pretty big customer of the railroads, aren't they?   

[blhanel]

...Perhaps you missed the announcement not too long ago of our military giving a contract to an offshore facility to supply some high tech helicopters for us.....

Yes, I did miss that, Quentin.  What are the details there?  Who's the contractor?  Who are the helicopters being built for?

I've been working on government contracts in a communications firm for 32 years, and have always been told that the military cannot import stuff, especially if it has classified aspects to it.

[Modelcar]

...Perhaps you missed the announcement not too long ago of our military giving a contract to an offshore facility to supply some high tech helicopters for us.....

[Anonymous]

Not just "cheap products"...CHEAP, CRAPPY PRODUCTS!!

[blhanel]

Not a good thought to have much of our miltiary electronics and various other hardware supply from abroad either....

That currently cannot happen.  It's against the rules for an offshore company to supply hardware (the high-technology stuff anyway) for the U.S. Military.

[Modelcar]

...When we finally reach a point where people of all stripes find their employement headed for the far east, etc....and we start reaching a point our populous can't afford even the "Walmarts" of the business world and it starts to affect Conservitives as well.....Then I wonder what will be the next move.....

Not a good thought to have much of our miltiary electronics and various other hardware supply from abroad either....Much of our manufacturing having moved off shore in my way of thinking is not putting us {America}, in a comfortable position.

[Anonymous]

The charge that Walmart is responsible for all the outsourcing is a red herring.  Manufacturing goes offshore because trade policies let it.  Jobs will continue to go to China and India until their cost of overhead rises to equilibrium with ours.  Because they have so many more people than we do, that equalization is a long way off.  It's far enough off to give time for all U.S. manufacturing to go there.  Businesses have no choice.  If your competitor goes to China, you have to go there or somewhere equivalent.  It's not just manufacturing assembly and production jobs being lost.  Engineering and design jobs are flying out the door as well. 

The controversy over Walmart is entirely political.  It's run by conservatives and is non-union, so liberals hate it.  Everybody who hates Walmart is not liberal, but all liberals hate Walmart.  It's a fashion.  With the exception of oil companies, Walmart is the most un-politically correct company. (The most P.C. company is Google).  But I don't want to get too political here.

[Anonymous]

  We were once a manufacturing and shipping center, but those jobs disappeared when the California gold rush ended. 

good gosh, like 135 years ago then?  What was your primary industry, knitting?

[DSchmitt]

One can only wonder how many of those poor low income people who can only afford to shop at walmart, are in fact poor because their previous job manufacturing store merchandise, was offshored?

a self feeding decline in action.

 

Where I live virtually none.  We were once a manufacturing and shipping center, but those jobs disappeared when the California gold rush ended.  In the economy, nothing is forever..

[Anonymous]

One can only wonder how many of those poor low income people who can only afford to shop at walmart, are in fact poor because their previous job manufacturing store merchandise, was offshored?

a self feeding decline in action.

[TimChgo9]

It's about pricing....  I do my grocery shopping, mostly, at my local SuperTarget... why? Because my grocery dollar goes about 30 to 35% farther there... Simple price comparison.... When a box of cereal,  is 4.99 at my local Jewel (large chain grocery store in Chicago, employing union workers) regular price and the same box of cereal is 2.54 (regular price) at Super Target, guess where I am going??  Super Target sells many national brands at prices 10 to 40% lower than my local Jewel.  So, for most of my groceries (except deli meats, Jewel has better meats) I am going to Super Target.... 

But, so far, the Jewel hasn't shut it's doors... so I guess there is room for both in this market. But, I am going where my dollar goes farther, period. 

My problem with Wal-Mart, is the fact that they have so much for such low prices...I wind up spending more than I planned on....  But, in all seriousness.  I am not a big fan of Wal-Mart either, but, over by me, the store is clean, the prices are low.... and, well... that decides it. 

 

[Tharmeni]

FYI, I checked at my local WalMart this afternoon and was told they sold out of the train cars in question.  There was a bare spot on the shelf where the cars were supposed to be.

[DSchmitt]

Awhile back I read an article that claimed Walmart was bad because they have pay low wages and have poor benefits.  It claimed a study proved that they were a burden on the enonomy and the government because their employees need goverment assistance to survive.

Nonsense! 

The alternatives for most of their employees are is job with lower pay and benefits if they can find one.  In my area there are two Walmart superstores.  It is overall a low income, high unemployment area. One benifit of living hear is that it is less expensive than more affulent areas 40-50 miles away. Many employees are older people suplimenting their income, others are young people just starting out and a few are people who made a mess out of their lives and are trying to straighten up.  If it wern't for Walmart they would have had to commute or leave the area to find a steady job (which probably would, at best, only pay  as well as Walmart).

Cheap products?

Most Walmart products are not cheap.  Most are the same brands and models sold at other stores.

When I bought a digital camera a few years ago, I could have gotten it at Walmart, but found it for less, on the internet, from a New York Camera store.  

Their groceries and sundries are the same brands as other stores sale (usually at a higher price). Even so no grocery stores or supermarkets , in the area, have closed since the Walmart superstores opened.

I recently bought a bedroom dresser and table (assemble yourself). They are sturdy and atractive BTW,  They were maufactured in the USA.

Because of Walmart and other businesses (many national names) locating near Walmart, hundreds of new jobs have been created in my community.

[solzrules]

If somebody has the extra cash to spend living out their ideals and philosophy, hey that's great!  More power to ya, brother!  Fight the power!  But if these businesses benefit people who do not have the luxury of extra money, I really don't think they should be made to feel bad for shopping at a store that can provide them with the cheapest everyday items. 

.   

See, there in is the TRUE beauty of America,  You have the right to be wrong, and I'd defend to the death your right to feel that way.

Appology accepted.

But I didn't apologize I just ........oh wait.  Saracsm.  I get it now....

Well anyhoo, I need to go use the bathroom with my cheap wal mart toilet paper that was probably made by gay chinese-mexicans in India who were whipped wile making 80 cents a year.  At least I can smile and think about all the money I saved!!!!!!

It be such a nice day out I think I shall chase a few trains around the great state of WI.

 

[eastside]

While shopping at Walmart tonight i discovered a new train related toy. Unfortunatly this toy represents a negative part of railroading. The toy im talking about is a series of railcars covered in graffiti,

My 2 cents:

1. If someone wanted his layout to be representative of the reality of railroading he’d have to include one of these cars, right?  I probably wouldn’t have such a car, but my layout had a bum and a junkyard, which I thought was pretty humorous.  I suppose the guy who thought up that car had a similar attitude.
2. If WM is really hip, they’re hoping someone will make a big stink, start a controversy, and draw attention to the product.  Then it’ll sell big.  Works every time with art, movies, clothes, music, etc.
3. Trying to force your norms onto someone else smacks of censorship.  I’d say nothing and just let the market decide.

[Anonymous]

If somebody has the extra cash to spend living out their ideals and philosophy, hey that's great!  More power to ya, brother!  Fight the power!  But if these businesses benefit people who do not have the luxury of extra money, I really don't think they should be made to feel bad for shopping at a store that can provide them with the cheapest everyday items. 

.   

See, there in is the TRUE beauty of America,  You have the right to be wrong, and I'd defend to the death your right to feel that way.

Appology accepted.

[Anonymous]

I am so tempted.......you left yourself open to a barrage of witty repartee!

However, since it is Sunday.....

One eventually reaches a point where it no longer matters 

the more costly 1000 sheet rolls last me way longer than the "bargain" rolls.
People see 12 rolls for $3 and think they are getting a steal, until they end up installing a new roll every other day.

Paying $7.50 for 12 rolls but getting  nearly 3 times as many sheets (notice I said "shEEts")  is a far better bargain.

[solzrules]

 So far can't dissagree with anything AG has said, Wally World sux, and IS bad for America...just creating generations of cheap crap junkies

Quality? Whats that?

 

edit PS: AG I'm really curious now about that last one...

I can see the argument Solzrules wants to make, "if consumers are buying it, why blame Walmart for meeting their needs?" (or something along those lines, seems to be the way the Walmart appologists usually arrange their  position)

And while there is more validity than not to that argument, I give Walmart credit (the blame in other words) for pioneering in that field, I think they have made that paradigm work, to the extent their competitors have but 2 choices, get buried, or follow suit.

The demon  (such as the case may be) is "the walmart mentality" . And as the name would indicate, the parental lineage is pretty obvious.

Now, most places you go,  you find 2 things, cheap walmart like merchandise, and Americans who used to work in manufacturing.

That last picture btw actually has Walmart suing the source. I guess that even the great goliath has seen the imperative to circle the wagons.

Whether that means I'm Walmartophobic, or Walmartmisic remains to be proven...

If a store comes in (putting on my Wal-Mart apologist hat here....hee hee hee) and undercuts the competition by underpricing their products who is that hurting exactly?  It sure doesn't hurt me!  It sure doesn't hurt those on a low income budget either.  (Isn't that the same group of people the democrats are 'for'?)  The only people they are hurting is the stores that were selling their products at a higher price, right?  But isn't that the joy of our captialist economy?  I can tell you for certain that somebody growing their business by out-selling and out-pricing the competition is not exclusive to Wal-Mart.  Business have been doing that for hundreds (thousands?) of years.  In a free market, there isn't anything wrong with that.  Just like there isn't anything wrong with you chosing not to shop there.  That's your business.  If Wal-Mart wants to sell a lot of stuff at low prices to a lot of people and make some money while they are at it isn't that their business?  Yes they buy their products from China, but according to the pro-union propaganda telling me what car I should buy to support the American worker most of our atuomobiles are from foregin countries as well.  I think that is just the nature of the game. 

If somebody has the extra cash to spend living out their ideals and philosophy, hey that's great!  More power to ya, brother!  Fight the power!  But if these businesses benefit people who do not have the luxury of extra money, I really don't think they should be made to feel bad for shopping at a store that can provide them with the cheapest everyday items. 

As for the decline of American manufacturing, why not ask our union friends why that is happening?  I guess some companies found out the hard way that you can pay someone in Mexico 2 dollars a day to punch a button instead of paying a guy 90,000 dollars a year to punch a button here in the USA.  If you don't believe me, read up on the Delphi-GM fiasco.  That is a direct result of overpriced-underworked people burying a company.  Unions are not bad, but they can take on the heir of a large, greedy company.  The same companies (such as Wal-Mart) they are supposed to be against.   

[zardoz]

 while I get  a good week (+/-) out of each roll.

I am so tempted.......you left yourself open to a barrage of witty repartee!

However, since it is Sunday.....

[David_Telesha]

Forget the made in China stuff, AG, but I don't see anything wrong with alcohol, tobacco, and firearms..

[silicon212]

Wasn't that last image re-edited from its original form in the Jib-Jab "This Land" flash movie?  I seem to remember the alien ...

[Modelcar]

....Walmart....I really don't know what will be the long term benefit or detriment to our general buying public....Too early yet to tell.  They sure are getting bigger each year....One of the largest co's {maybe the largest}, in America.

It does displace local businesses that were established in our local towns.

The products they sell for the most part is benefitting {China}, and other countries and not much for manufactures in our country.

Don't know how the quality issue is going to sort out overall....

Of course people flock to W M for employment....Our manufacturing base is slipping out of the country month by month, year by year...People have to go somewhere for their employment.

And now....with their super stores that include grocery stores...the assault has begun on grocery chains, not to mention all the marginal smaller stores in nearby towns, etc.  We have a rather large {somewhat local chain}, that started in Muncie but branched out to wider areas and now they are in economic trouble and most likely will be sold and possibly broken up into pieces and who knows what the end result will be.

Just my contributing

[Anonymous]

 So far can't dissagree with anything AG has said, Wally World sux, and IS bad for America...just creating generations of cheap crap junkies

Quality? Whats that?

 

edit PS: AG I'm really curious now about that last one...

I can see the argument Solzrules wants to make, "if consumers are buying it, why blame Walmart for meeting their needs?" (or something along those lines, seems to be the way the Walmart apologists usually arrange their  position)

And while there is more validity than not to that argument, I give Walmart credit (the blame in other words) for pioneering in that field, I think they have made that paradigm work, to the extent their competitors have but 2 choices, get buried, or follow suit.

The demon  (such as the case may be) is "the walmart mentality" . And as the name would indicate, the parental lineage is pretty obvious.

Now, most places you go,  you find 2 things, cheap walmart like merchandise, and Americans who used to work in manufacturing.

That last picture btw actually has Walmart suing the source. I guess that even the great goliath has seen the imperative to circle the wagons.

Whether that means I'm Walmartophobic, or Walmartmisic remains to be proven...

[solzrules]

Yeah but that was a great movie!!!!!

Sure fire ways to incite a riot:

1) drive through a trailer park, diss'n Walmart

2) Start a thread here about the Milwaukee Road

3) CSX paint your bridge(s)!


(last one edited  to avoid offending young eyes)

Those are a riot! So far can't dissagree with anything AG has said, Wally World sux, and IS bad for America...just creating generations of cheap crap junkies

Quality? Whats that?

 

edit PS: AG I'm really curious now about that last one...

 

So is that the only reason you guys hate Wal-Mart?  They sell cheap crap?  What if you are of limited income and all you can afford is cheap crap?  Wal-Mart is the best store in the world in that scenario.  I still don't see how a store that makes things affordable for low-income people is such a terrible thing.  If the biggest reason is that they are non-union and sell cheap crap, then they must have a really good thing going on.  If they pay their workers so poorly (according to the unions) than why is it so many people are applying there? 

[vsmith]

Yeah but that was a great movie!!!!!

Sure fire ways to incite a riot:

1) drive through a trailer park, diss'n Walmart

2) Start a thread here about the Milwaukee Road

3) CSX paint your bridge(s)!







(last one edited  to avoid offending young eyes)

Those are a riot! So far can't dissagree with anything AG has said, Wally World sux, and IS bad for America...just creating generations of cheap crap junkies

Quality? Whats that?

 

edit PS: AG I'm really curious now about that last one...

[ericsp]

I would guess that most people who buy these cars are inclined toward vandalism. So, I say keep selling them, but in order to buy them, one must show ID. Then they can be put in a database for the RR police.

[selector]

They talked about their buying practices.

went like this:

Walmart:  "we will only buy those lamps if we can get them for 3 dollars a piece"

American Lamp Maker: "It costs me 4 dollars to make each one"

Walmart: : "So make them in China"

__________________________________

Also talked about stores oversees, activists aginst them, labor problems, the usual.  It is kind of sickening to watch.  I haven't been to a Mal*Wart ever since.

Well, I guess I can't fault you for that.  Just curious as to what they said.  I guess my take on Wal-MArt is a little different.  They provide a lot of things cheaply to people that usually don't have a lot of money to begin with, me being one of them.  If I can save money by shopping there, I certainly don't have a problem with it. 

As for their labor problems, I get stuff all the time from my union telling me I shouldn't shop there.  They have a laundry list of reasons as to why we shouldn't shop there, but it is implied that the biggest reason is that they aren't union.  I suppose one could find something wrong with everything if they looked hard enough.  Perhaps the union could reimburse me for the extra money I would have to spend shopping at a 'pro-union' store instead of Wal-Mart.  It is kind of funny.  They expect me to spend more money in the persuit of an ideal but offer me no benefit for it. 

Oh well.  I just buy toilet paper and toothpaste there anyhoo. 

Cheers.

LOL!!!!   solzrules for president!!  Go get 'em, tiger.

 

(that was GOOOOD!)

[Anonymous]

Well, Wal-Mart isn't the only store guilty of selling cheap crap. 

True, but walmart is the iconic success story of "If you sell it cheap enough, people won't care if it's krappe"

Now I fully realize that it takes a certain mentality among the public at large to make that working philosophy a success, but as a person who much prefers to pay more for quality, who sees quality offerings dwindling across the board because the public has embraced that (walmart) philosphy, I see walmart as a "grand enabler" to the general decline in merchandise quality.

Just because everybody's now doing it, is no reason why I can't blame walmart for inception of concept and making it work.



There are varying values in toilet paper btw, but it has more to do with how many sheets you get per roll. I laugh at the folks who buy the "super bargain brand" that is wound so loosely on the core that there are only 360 sheets per roll. half the bulk per roll is air between the sheets

So they get a dozen rolls much cheaper than I buy my 1000 sheet per roll dozen paks.

The difference will be that they will change rolls 3-4 times per week (more with kids) while I get  a good week (+/-) out of each roll.

[solzrules]

I also lost the love of wal*marts when they started doing announcements in spanish.  Also the stores around here looks like dumps.  Plus they sell crap for cheap.  I can live without cheap crap.

We used to go to the (I believe) first wal*mart north of the mason-dixon line.  It even had (get this) a MALL entrance.  Yep, Walmart was once a part of an indoor mall with is own interior entrance. 

Well, Wal-Mart isn't the only store guilty of selling cheap crap.  There are some hobby shops in the area that are guilty of doing that too. 

Wal-Mart is quite the success story.  They have market share, which means they can influence their wholesale prices (some migh call it bullying).  I call it running a business shrewdly.  They are only savings that get passed on to the consumer.  There are also a few things that Wal-Mart sells that can't possibly be crappy.  Have you ever used bad toilet paper or deoderant?  They are all pretty much the same (and they go to the same place.)  They sell Sony electronics, some of the best in the business. 

Sometimes I think people don't like Wal-Mart because they got big.  Some times the mindset exists that big companies are bad, no matter what happens.  I, for one, wished I was old enough at the time to dump ever dime I had into Wal-Mart shares back in the early eighties because I am sure by now I would own my own railroad.

Wishful thinking, I guess.

[solzrules]

I'm really not a 'progressive'

There is enough bogus about both the liberal AND conservative platforms that i refuse to be pigeon holed with either of them. I tend to be older, and think in ways that are republican, so that makes me more conservative than liberal, but:

 Both stand for things worth opposing (in my way of seeing the world, anyway)

I think I'm more of a Libertarian.

True enough.  I disagree with planks in both parties platforms.  Both parties have produced excellent leaders, and both have produced scoundrels.  I do happen to side with one party more than the other, as I am sure you have deduced by now. 

I have also heard libertarians describe themselves as 'progressive'.  No offense ment. 

 

 

[zugmann]

I also lost the love of wal*marts when they started doing announcements in spanish.  Also the stores around here looks like dumps.  Plus they sell crap for cheap.  I can live without cheap crap.

We used to go to the (I believe) first wal*mart north of the mason-dixon line.  It even had (get this) a MALL entrance.  Yep, Walmart was once a part of an indoor mall with is own interior entrance. 

[Anonymous]

I'm really not a 'progressive'

There is enough bogus about both the liberal AND conservative platforms that i refuse to be pigeon holed with either of them. I tend to be older, and think in ways that are republican, so that makes me more conservative than liberal, but:

 Both stand for things worth opposing (in my way of seeing the world, anyway)

I think I'm more of a Libertarian.

[solzrules]

Yeah but that was a great movie!!!!!

Sure fire ways to incite a riot:

1) drive through a trailer park, diss'n Walmart

2) Start a thread here about the Milwaukee Road

3) CSX paint your bridge(s)!







(last one edited  to avoid offending young eyes)

 

Come on now.  What is a good 'progressive' like you doing dissing communism?  Maybe they are right?  China's economy is growing at something like 10 or 11 percent.

[solzrules]

They talked about their buying practices.

went like this:

Walmart:  "we will only buy those lamps if we can get them for 3 dollars a piece"

American Lamp Maker: "It costs me 4 dollars to make each one"

Walmart: : "So make them in China"

__________________________________

Also talked about stores oversees, activists aginst them, labor problems, the usual.  It is kind of sickening to watch.  I haven't been to a Mal*Wart ever since.

Well, I guess I can't fault you for that.  Just curious as to what they said.  I guess my take on Wal-MArt is a little different.  They provide a lot of things cheaply to people that usually don't have a lot of money to begin with, me being one of them.  If I can save money by shopping there, I certainly don't have a problem with it. 

As for their labor problems, I get stuff all the time from my union telling me I shouldn't shop there.  They have a laundry list of reasons as to why we shouldn't shop there, but it is implied that the biggest reason is that they aren't union.  I suppose one could find something wrong with everything if they looked hard enough.  Perhaps the union could reimburse me for the extra money I would have to spend shopping at a 'pro-union' store instead of Wal-Mart.  It is kind of funny.  They expect me to spend more money in the persuit of an ideal but offer me no benefit for it. 

Oh well.  I just buy toilet paper and toothpaste there anyhoo. 

Cheers.

[Anonymous]

Yeah but that was a great movie!!!!!

Sure fire ways to incite a riot:

1) drive through a trailer park, diss'n Walmart

2) Start a thread here about the Milwaukee Road

3) CSX paint your bridge(s)!







(last one edited  to avoid offending young eyes)

[zugmann]

They talked about their buying practices.

went like this:

Walmart:  "we will only buy those lamps if we can get them for 3 dollars a piece"

American Lamp Maker: "It costs me 4 dollars to make each one"

Walmart: : "So make them in China"

__________________________________

Also talked about stores oversees, activists aginst them, labor problems, the usual.  It is kind of sickening to watch.  I haven't been to a Mal*Wart ever since.

[solzrules]

I also seem to notice a distinct anti-Wal Mart strain in this thread.  Would anyone care to elaborate? 

Did you ever see the documentary that CNBC had on a year or two back?  And to think, walmart used to have banners advertising "we buy american!" in their stores.

LOL.

No I missed that one.  What did CNBC have to say about it? 

[solzrules]

I also seem to notice a distinct anti-Wal Mart strain in this thread.  Would anyone care to elaborate? 

They sell low quality products at rock bottom prices, don't like 'em.  Isn't that where 'joe dirt' bought his wardrobe?

Yeah but that was a great movie!!!!!

[SchemerBob]

I believe these toys are a new version of Maisto's "On-Track" trains, which are close to TT scale. I have lots of them, I was real excited when I finally saw TRAINS in Wal-Mart (besides the junky HO train sets during holiday time). Now, I know that graffiti is depresing (I guess), but it's just real life. I think that having one of these cars on your train would make your consists look more realistic. After all, if you see a freight train go by, every single car is usually very dirty and most have some sort of graffiti art on them. You NEVER see a train where each car is spotless with no nicks or dirt or spots (yes, including passenger trains, too). I don't think there's anything real wrong with these cars; it's just another try to promote this train series, which I think was a failure. Just as long as the graffiti doesn't say anything bad, they have every right to put these cars out. Heck, I may even get a few for my OnTrack collection.

[Anonymous]

I call BS...what kinda trucks are those and yellow on a B&O car? Realism and the real world my foot..

Well, I guess you "got me" there.  That really wasn't the debate I thought we were having   but oh well.

[Anonymous]

<BLOCKQUOTE><table class="quoteOuterTable"><tr><td class="txt4"><img src="/trccs/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif">&nbsp;<strong>TimChgo9 wrote:</strong></td></tr><tr><td class="quoteTable"><table width="100%"><tr><td width="100%" valign="top" class="txt4"><P> I actually hate cars with graffitti on them, they look horrible, but unfortunately, that's the state of affairs when it comes to trains.  I think the point that is being made here is not so much using Wal Mart to teach values, but the glorification of the "ghetto culture"....  But, it all boils down to teaching kids values, and etcetera.  So, if Wal-Mart wants to sell the darn product... who cares?.  Because if we are going to worry about the effect a toy is going to have on a kid, then we better remove the toy guns, sports cars, military vehicles, fighter planes, race cars, monster trucks, super hero costumes, and Star Wars light sabres, Barbies, Bratz Dolls, and Cabbage Patch kids from the toy shelves, lest a child get the wrong idea about morals, life, and right and wrong from one of those toys.  As a  parent, it is MY responsibility to teach my kid not to do things that are wrong, illegal, immoral, or otherwise stupid. If he grafitti's a train car, then I will blame his  stupidity, and  him, long before I blame a toy train car.....  </P></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>
mhm

[Anonymous]

I also seem to notice a distinct anti-Wal Mart strain in this thread.  Would anyone care to elaborate? 

They sell low quality products at rock bottom prices, don't like 'em.  Isn't that where 'joe dirt' bought his wardrobe?

[zugmann]

I also seem to notice a distinct anti-Wal Mart strain in this thread.  Would anyone care to elaborate? 

Did you ever see the documentary that CNBC had on a year or two back?  And to think, walmart used to have banners advertising "we buy american!" in their stores.

LOL.

[solzrules]

 I actually hate cars with graffitti on them, they look horrible, but unfortunately, that's the state of affairs when it comes to trains.  I think the point that is being made here is not so much using Wal Mart to teach values, but the glorification of the "ghetto culture"....  But, it all boils down to teaching kids values, and etcetera.  So, if Wal-Mart wants to sell the darn product... who cares?.  Because if we are going to worry about the effect a toy is going to have on a kid, then we better remove the toy guns, sports cars, military vehicles, fighter planes, race cars, monster trucks, super hero costumes, and Star Wars light sabres, Barbies, Bratz Dolls, and Cabbage Patch kids from the toy shelves, lest a child get the wrong idea about morals, life, and right and wrong from one of those toys.  As a  parent, it is MY responsibility to teach my kid not to do things that are wrong, illegal, immoral, or otherwise stupid. If he grafitti's a train car, then I will blame his  stupidity, and  him, long before I blame a toy train car..... 

[TimChgo9]

 I actually hate cars with graffitti on them, they look horrible, but unfortunately, that's the state of affairs when it comes to trains.  I think the point that is being made here is not so much using Wal Mart to teach values, but the glorification of the "ghetto culture"....  But, it all boils down to teaching kids values, and etcetera.  So, if Wal-Mart wants to sell the darn product... who cares?.  Because if we are going to worry about the effect a toy is going to have on a kid, then we better remove the toy guns, sports cars, military vehicles, fighter planes, race cars, monster trucks, super hero costumes, and Star Wars light sabres, Barbies, Bratz Dolls, and Cabbage Patch kids from the toy shelves, lest a child get the wrong idea about morals, life, and right and wrong from one of those toys.  As a  parent, it is MY responsibility to teach my kid not to do things that are wrong, illegal, immoral, or otherwise stupid. If he grafitti's a train car, then I will blame his  stupidity, and  him, long before I blame a toy train car..... 

[David_Telesha]

Actually, I think they are cool in a way.  For those who wish to model the "real world" the way it is, this presents an oppotunity for real "realism"

I call BS...what kinda trucks are those and yellow on a B&O car? Realism and the real world my foot..

[solzrules]

Wal-MArt is selling railcars with grafitti on them?  Isn't that real life?  Also - why would someone rely on Wal-MArt to tell kids what is right on wrong?  I don't think there is any harm in this.  Let the police worry about those who break the law.  I don't think we need to rely on Wal-Mart to tell people what is legal and what isn't.  Wal-MArt is not a surrogate parent.  I understand that some model railroad suppliers are now pre-weathering their products (graffiti included).  Is that wrong too?  Should we make model railroading a 'rated pg' hobby?  I think this is a bit of an over-reaction. 

I also seem to notice a distinct anti-Wal Mart strain in this thread.  Would anyone care to elaborate? 

[Anonymous]

  I have got to gets me one of these!  Now on the other hand its been a while since I saw toy trains at wal-mart

[One Track Mind]

sheesh....do we get mad at the model train shops for selling Blair Line decals depicting graffiti for realistic modern models too?

Oops...just remembered, people already have. Oh well, I'm going to keep selling them anyway.

I kinda like the idea of being mad at Wal-Mart, but really, where do you draw the line?

Hope this doesn't cross the line of promoting my store, just trying to show another side to the story.

[Anonymous]

Actually, I think they are cool in a way.  For those who wish to model the "real world" the way it is, this presents an oppotunity for real "realism"

No one has to buy it, if they themselves do not approve.

Anyone who is dependant upon the likes of Walmart to teach their children values, has missed the boat (IMO)

[fuzzybroken]

Who produces this?  I would get in contact with that company as well.  Assuming, of course, that it's not mass-produced in China by some mass-production company...

[Modelcar]

....Good luck alcodave...I hope you fnd someone in management there that knows what you are talking about.  {May not be easy}....I agree graffiti is not a product to be selling {on a product}, to the masses....Legitimizing it.

[Anonymous]

While shopping at Walmart tonight i.....

LOL!!

[CShaveRR]

Hmmm...CSX is as good about protecting its trademarks as UP, and, last I heard, the B&O capitol dome was one of them.  Maybe somebody in CSX's legal department would like to see this  (The yellow cars are also inaccurate for C&O equipment, I think).