Illinois Central (Gulf)/CN, etc

[MP173]

I will start this discussion on the IC and related lines.  First, as a disclaimer:

I grew up on the IC, a branchline in Southern Illinois.  I currently own CN stock. 

That is about it.  I never worked for the IC, nor did an immediate family member.  I sort of understand what their operations were in the 70's, at least north of the Ohio River.

My first impressions of railroads was the IC, on the branchline that ran 1 block from my house.  It was the Mattoon to Evansville line, which actually ran from Peoria to Evansville.  That line is now gone, at least thru my area. 

I never saw steam on the IC.  I saw a few passenger trains, actually rode on a couple in my toddler years. To me the black with green diamond logo was the IC...not the orange/white of the 70's.

I know many of you either worked or lived near the IC.

What are your memories or thoughts of the railroad?

ed

[Murphy Siding]

     Can someone explain IC's branchline theory from way back when?  IC ran a line accross the top of Iowa, ending at the depot accross the street from my office in Sioux Falls, S.D., and then just stopped.  It seems like they did this quite a bit.  Later, they rationalized most of  these routes, and they're gone.  Was there some sort of grand plan to all that, back in the railroad building days?

[MP173]

I have The History of the Illinois Central Railroad, by John Stover.  I have to admit...never read it.

But, in looking at the book's chapter on Iowa, it appears that the Illinois Central changed directions in the 1860's, from being a north south route to building west from Chicago.  The race was on to reach Counsel Bluffs.  (as a side note...this might have been the most overbuilt corridor in US railroading with the CNW, CRP, CBQ, IC, CGW, and Wabash all having routes).  The line to Sioux City, Iowa was built in anticipation that the UP would build a branch eastward to that town.  It never happened. So, it appears that IC built west to Sioux City to avoid the Council Bluffs competition.  Later, it did complete the line.

Stover writes "At Cherokee (Iowa), sixty miles east of Sioux City, a 96 mile branch was projected to the northwest to the booming South Dakota town of Sioux Falls.  A second line was also projected to Onawa, 61 miles to the southwest."

The Sioux Falls line was completed on December 18, 1887.

My guess is the lines were built to tap into the agricultural traffic, both grain and cattle.  Remember, lots of cattle moved east from Iowa to Chicago for slaughter.

You know Sioux Falls history much better than me.  What would have brought the IC there...and no further?  Were there lines running west of the city that would funnel to the IC?  Was SF a major cattle terminal?

ed

[gabe]

I have read Stover's book.  The first half is pretty good, second half is average.  The book does do a good job of explaining IC's justification of traveling west.  As Ed correctly mentioned, they anticipated a connection in South Dakota with a western road that never materialized.  Also remember, when the Iowa line was built--or at least stated--, the IC did not go all the way to New Orleans, it went to Cairo, Illinois.

I think the green diamond was classy, but I still prefer the orange and white.  I think it is just one of those things--you like the colors you grow up with.

For me, the IC has somewhat of a nostalgic status.  I grew up in Mt. Olive, Illinois along the IC's Springfield to St. Louis line.  I was born in 1975, and the IC more or less had stopped operating it by that time after a the merger with GM&O.  I only remember seeing one revenue freight service in roughly 1980--which was a true anomoly.  I distinctly remember them tearing the line out when I was six though.  It was bitter sweat, I got to see several IC locomtives--right up until they pulled the rails they were traveling on . . .

Although I also grew up along the Wabash main--now NS--and have seen countless NS units, it will always be the orange and white IC's that bring out the greatest sense of nostolgia.

Gabe

P.S.  Ed and I seem to have a lot in common.  Both grew up in small Southern Illinois towns along an IC rail line that was pulled out and both relocated to Indiana.

[MP173]

You can go back home, but sometimes it rips your heart out.  Gabe, as you well know, "my" IC line is long gone, just a path that is being taken over by nature. 


I think as we all age we recall the memories of our youth.  For me and the IC, it was the far away whistle and the oncoming train, growing louder and larger by the minute until it burst on the scene and then faded away, finally disappearing around a curve, or behind a hill.  Then it was back to my dad's store to stock the shelves or perhaps make sausage.  All that is long gone. 

No doubt my boys are today building memories, not so much of trains, except of their dad's obsession. 

ed

[greyhounds]

     Can someone explain IC's branchline theory from way back when?  IC ran a line accross the top of Iowa, ending at the depot accross the street from my office in Sioux Falls, S.D., and then just stopped.  It seems like they did this quite a bit.  Later, they rationalized most of  these routes, and they're gone.  Was there some sort of grand plan to all that, back in the railroad building days?

The Sioux Falls trains stopped operating because we lost a bridge between Cherokee and SF.  That was a unique branch line operation.  We had a TOFC ramp at Sioux Falls and we handled westbound UPS (about five loads/day) over that ramp right untill that bridge went out.  We also hauled TOFC beef east from Sioux Falls that origniated from an IBP plant in Laverne(SP?), MN.  That little train hauled some high priority freight.  It connected to a Sioux City train at Cherokee which then connected to a Council Bluffs train at either Tama or Tara, I forget which.  It all worked.  We never got a service complaint from UPS or IBP.

I had to provide the traffic data to our legal dept. for the abandoment application and I showed the meat as being from Laverne.  It confused the lawyer - I remeber him saying "It's not even on the line".  An explination was required.

Our VP of Law was scared to death of abandonment applications.  We had a lot of track to get rid of in Mississippi,  Mississpppi didn't like abandonments, and he was from Mississippi.  We didn't shed track fast enough.

As near as I could tell, the policy was to operate the branch until you could no longer safely run trains on it, then file to abandon it. 

 

[MP173]

Ok, speaking of nostalgia...

has anyone read Jim Boyd's Illinois Central, Monday Morning Rails?  That book takes you back, and yes it has orange and white geeps along with black and green diamond and the absolute best passenger E's in history...chocolate brown and orange.

ed

[Murphy Siding]

     greyhounds:  Thanks for the insight.  IC was gone before I moved to town in 1984.  The passenger depot is now the immigration office.  The 2 stall engine hous is now a junkyard.  There is a contractor's shop in a building that I think they used in conjunction with the TOFC operation.  I've walked several miles of the abandonded ROW, with the exception of a mile or so of old IC tracks used by BNSF for storage.

[wctransfer]

I used to think the IC was really cool. Now, since Hunter and his IC boys are running CN, and passing stupid contracts *funny how the IC is getting better contracts than the WC division* make me have a blurry vision of the IC. I like the old SD40s (old GM&O stuff), the SD70s are also really neat. But, I just dont like the IC of the late 90s. The old IC was cool, just like CN was cool when they stayed on there half of the border.

Alec

[MP173]

greyhound:

I was hoping you would jump on this. 

Do you remember when the Sioux Falls line was abandoned? 

The philosophy about the run until no longer safe seems accurate.  As a kid in the 60's there was a section gang that worked our line, using the section cars.  Then those disappeared and the line went from a 35mph operation to 25 then 10 then sold to Indiana HiRail, then pulled.

Do you know much about the piggyback operation on the Evansville line?  I recall seeing pigs on the rear of the trains.  There was a "ramp" in Olney, near my hometown, but dont recall much about it.

ed

[samfp1943]

You can go back home, but sometimes it rips your heart out.  Gabe, as you well know, "my" IC line is long gone, just a path that is being taken over by nature. 


I think as we all age we recall the memories of our youth.  For me and the IC, it was the far away whistle and the oncoming train, growing louder and larger by the minute until it burst on the scene and then faded away, finally disappearing around a curve, or behind a hill.  Then it was back to my dad's store to stock the shelves or perhaps make sausage.  All that is long gone. 

No doubt my boys are today building memories, not so much of trains, except of their dad's obsession. 

ed

This nostalgia is getting to me, I grew up in the Memphis area, West Tennessee and North Mississippi.

The Illinois Central of the Fifties and Sixties was a part of the culture. High School grads and College students went to NOLA on Spring Break, and any other opportunity that presented itself, it was a rite of passage. You went down in the afternoon on the "City," and came back on the "Panama." The reason was that you were ususally in no shape to drive back, you brought at least two things with you, the last Hurricane glass from Pat O'Brien's and the biggest hangover you had ever had. When the Conductor called out in that deep, basso voice," Macomb, Macomb,Mississippi, will be the next station stop!" your head hurt so bad, and you could not cover the hangover or your head, with a No.3 washtub.

To go down in the Ensley Bottoms at night and watch the trains fly through the curves, sparks rimming the wheels, screeching brake shoes, and the smells as the trains got outta town and headed down to 'The Delta,' starting to build up speed for the race South. or sitting on the side of  East freight bypass by Flicker St, watching a steady parade of freight trains- The IC ruled  

I was hooked early on trains. Memphis was a city surrounded and awash in trains. The IC, RI, Frisco, L&N, NC&stL,MoP, Cotton Belt, Southern, Memphis Union Terminal.  You could even find traces of earlier railroads, long since disappeared, the signals down by the old Rock Island Passenger Terminal that were stamped Memphis and Iron Mountain,and the RI Freight House,  The Rock Island Ferryboat landing under the bridges, The Memphis and Charleston Depot, The NC&StL tracks and Lenox Station. I had a good friend who worked at Johnson Yard Roundhouse, I was able to visit down there on a number of occasions. The old railroader who was the bridge tender on the Harahan Bridge and whose shanty was at the Kentucky street crossing of "Railroad Avenue." The tower out at the new Frisco Tennessee Yard, The old Poplar St. Interlocking Tower, which controlled that junction( IC,MoP, L&N). The Southern's engine house and turntable where they kept the wreck train. Or over to the Frisco's Yale yard where the smells of the railroad were overwhelmed by the aroma of Kellog's Corn Flakes being made alongside the yard.

 

[gabe]

You can go back home, but sometimes it rips your heart out.  Gabe, as you well know, "my" IC line is long gone, just a path that is being taken over by nature. 


I think as we all age we recall the memories of our youth.  For me and the IC, it was the far away whistle and the oncoming train, growing louder and larger by the minute until it burst on the scene and then faded away, finally disappearing around a curve, or behind a hill.  Then it was back to my dad's store to stock the shelves or perhaps make sausage.  All that is long gone. 

No doubt my boys are today building memories, not so much of trains, except of their dad's obsession. 

ed

This nostalgia is getting to me, I grew up in the Memphis area, West Tennessee and North Mississippi.

The Illinois Central of the Fifties and Sixties was a part of the culture. High School grads and College students went to NOLA on Spring Break, and any other opportunity that presented itself, it was a rite of passage. You went down in the afternoon on the "City," and came back on the "Panama." The reason was that you were ususally in no shape to drive back, you brought at least two things with you, the last Hurricane glass from Pat O'Brien's and the biggest hangover you had ever had. When the Conductor called out in that deep, basso voice," Macomb, Macomb,Mississippi, will be the next station stop!" your head hurt so bad, and you could not cover the hangover or your head, with a No.3 washtub.

To go down in the Ensley Bottoms at night and watch the trains fly through the curves, sparks rimming the wheels, screeching brake shoes, and the smells as the trains got outta town and headed down to 'The Delta,' starting to build up speed for the race South. or sitting on the side of  East freight bypass by Flicker St, watching a steady parade of freight trains- The IC ruled  

I was hooked early on trains. Memphis was a city surrounded and awash in trains. The IC, RI, Frisco, L&N, NC&stL,MoP, Cotton Belt, Southern, Memphis Union Terminal.  You could even find traces of earlier railroads, long since disappeared, the signals down by the old Rock Island Passenger Terminal that were stamped Memphis and Iron Mountain,and the RI Freight House,  The Rock Island Ferryboat landing under the bridges, The Memphis and Charleston Depot, The NC&StL tracks and Lenox Station. I had a good friend who worked at Johnson Yard Roundhouse, I was able to visit down there on a number of occasions. The old railroader who was the bridge tender on the Harahan Bridge and whose shanty was at the Kentucky street crossing of "Railroad Avenue." The tower out at the new Frisco Tennessee Yard, The old Poplar St. Interlocking Tower, which controlled that junction( IC,MoP, L&N). The Southern's engine house and turntable where they kept the wreck train. Or over to the Frisco's Yale yard where the smells of the railroad were overwhelmed by the aroma of Kellog's Corn Flakes being made alongside the yard.

 

Actually, you make a really good point.  I have always identified the Illinois Central as a prarie railroad, but in many ways, it is more of a son of the South than that of the North.  I think that is one of the things that is particularly unique about the IC, it is one of the few railroads to bridge two fairly diverse cultures. 

Of course, the culture of the Penssy's southern Indiana is different from that of NYC, but it is not the same thing as a rail line that has both a Kankakee and a Yazoo district.

Gabe

[Randy Stahl]

I spent some time in Mount Olive and around the area many years ago , I think that southern Illinois is very interesting . The cars stranded , I think in Tamms , the remainder of the big four in Cairo . The abandoned Illinois central in East Cape Girardau. Frisco, Cotton belt (across the river) MOP, CB&Q, C&EI, NYC, PRR, what a treasure of railway archiolgy !!

Randy

[MP173]

I wish I could go back and do some things differently from about 1975 thru 77.  I was in my later years of college and when I would come home (by that time I had a real camera...Pentax 35mm) I would head to the action, either in Effingham, Centralia, or Mattoon area (north to Tuscola or Tolono).

I really missed some interesting stuff:

The PC(Conrail)/MoPac between Altamont and St. Elmo.  I was in St Elmo once with an old camera and was able to snap a shop of a MoPac local passing the tower. 

Mt. Vernon with the L&N, Southern, and Mopac and of course the Precision National plant that rebuilt locomotives!

Edgewood, Il. was where the Edgewood cutoff dove straight south off of the IC mainline.  There was a tower there.  Missed it...and it was only 30 miles from my home.
 
I would have liked to have gone over near Chester where the Cotton Belt and MoPac ran alongside the river, but that would have been a bit too much to ask for, given that gasoline had doubled from 30 cents/gallon to 59.9. 

Or perhaps the Nickel Plate thru Charleston...I think there was a tower there where it crossed the PC.

But, luckily I was able to get some stuff...PC (ex NYC) F units in Mattoon...the line is now gone.  PC and Southern at Mt. Carmel (PC now gone).  MoPac Screaming Eagles in a blizzard at Tuscola, crossing the IC at the tower (cold as hell wearing tennis shoes).


Nostalgic today?  Sure...I am feeling it big time today.  There is a feeling in the air...the leaves are drying and rustling when the wind blows.  It is not nearly as hot and the cicadas are active at night.  The oldest son is off to college this weekend and the youngest is learning how to put on football pads for Pop Warner practice.  Fall is coming folks.  For some of us, particularly out in the great plains it wont be soon enough.  Another season, another year.

ed

[gabe]

I hope Randy didn't blink as he was going through Mt. Olive, he would have missed 2/3rds of the town.

I am with you Ed about going back to the early 70s--albeit, I wasn't alive then.

I think I would have spend most of my time seeing Illinois Terminal action in Edwardsville, where I could watch the Litchfield and Madison, Chicago North Western, and Nickle Platte all at the same time.

Centralia would also be high on my list.  Of course all of the railroads that are there now would be interesting to me, but I would love to have seen Missouri and Illinois Railway units.

Ramsey Illinois would also be big, the IC and Nickle Plate crossing (alas both gone now--a least I got to see the Nickle Platte tracks in Ramsey before they were pulled).

I could go on forever, thinking of places I would like to hang out for 3 hours each in 1970--better yet 1968, pre-Amtrak.

I think Illinois is so incredible with all the rail nostolgia.  I have a hunch Iowa is as good.  I think the thing that really makes Illinois No. 1 is the both North-South and East-West action of Illinois.  In Iowa, the main routes, with a few exceptions were all east-west.  Illinois' combination of North-South and East-West + branchline mismash really gives it a unique flavor.

If only half of the lines that are gone were still there, how interesting it would all be.

Gabe

[tree68]

I did two tours at Chanute AFB, in Rantoul, IL, hard by the IC/ICG main.  The first time my interest in railroads was minimal, although I did ride IC from Chicago to Rantoul one time - the train was packed and I almost think I stood a good portion of the trip.  Wish I remembered more about it, and the railroad of the day.  I'm sure it was lots of black Geeps.

The second time I was at Chanute I had just gotten really interested in railroads.  I spent a lot of time at the station, watching trains go by, including those frequent, and long, coal trains that ran between the southern Illinois coal fields and Chicago.

During that tour, ICG was rebuilding a highway overpass in the middle of town.  They built a shoo-fly bridge around the new bridge site - double track, and permanent slow order to boot.  Never have seen the finished product, and the line is now single track besides.

ICG's track past the Rantoul station was less than exemplary, and I remember more than once standing on the platform as a freight came through, wondering if the swaying engine was going to sway back or keep on tipping toward me...

Somewhere I have a picture of the train order stand.  I remember many times seeing the station agent tie orders up on the stand, and watching the head end and caboose crews snag them as they went by.

[greyhounds]

greyhound:

I was hoping you would jump on this. 

Do you remember when the Sioux Falls line was abandoned? 

The philosophy about the run until no longer safe seems accurate.  As a kid in the 60's there was a section gang that worked our line, using the section cars.  Then those disappeared and the line went from a 35mph operation to 25 then 10 then sold to Indiana HiRail, then pulled.

Do you know much about the piggyback operation on the Evansville line?  I recall seeing pigs on the rear of the trains.  There was a "ramp" in Olney, near my hometown, but dont recall much about it.

ed

Well, let's see.  IIRC the bridge went out on the line around 1977 - that ended all service to and from Sioux Falls..  I did some work getting data ready for the abandonment application, but then I moved over to intermodal marketing and pricing.  I don't know when final approval came.  I recall the ICC approving the abandonment and then a challenge in court.  Why, I don't know.  Sioux Falls had other railroads and there was precious little business anywhere else on the line.

The Evansville ramp was heavily imbalanced outbound.  There was a lot of manufacturing in that area.  We could load every trailer we moved in.  We just didn't want to move 'em in empty with no revenue.  The closest steady source of empty trailers was Memphis and we didn't want to move an empty up from Memphis only to gett a load back to Memphis (most of 'em then went off line to California or Texas.)  Our empty miles on such an operation were 100% of our loaded miles and that didn't pay well. 

In the regulated days getting around the regs was an important part of the game.  In a normal business environment we would have simply raised the rates out of Evansville to compensate for the costs of moving the empty equipment in.  We couldn't do that then.  So the shippers started shipping empty trailers out of Memphis to themselves in Evansville.  It was that or go without.

Of course, it was against the rules for them to pay us to move empty railroad trailers (but we could charge for a steamship container).  So the game was to put a can of dog food in the trailer and ship it to themselves in Evansville as a load.  Hey, it was a tailer with a load of freight.  They got equipment, we got paid, and the regulators didn't care as long as the paperwork was in order. 

I guess you lived east of the main line.  The only move I can recall into Evansville from the north was wooden TV cabinets for Zenith.  It would have been very unusual to move empties into Evansville from the north. Zenith would make the cabinets in Chicago, ship them to Evansville, then reload the trailers with TV's.  They solved their equipment problem with real loads.  The Zenith loads moved south out of Chicago on Pig Train #53, were set out at Matton, and moved to Evansville on a local.

Eventually Evansville was replaced with a "Hub Center" at Princeton, KY.  We could offer better service out of the Hubs and didn't have to put TOFC on local freights

The Peoria-Mattoon line handled significant TOFC.  Caterpillar had a parts distribution center at Memphis and would ship maybe 20 trailers a day.  These would move from the E. Peoria ramp to Mattoon on PM-1 as I recall.  At Mattoon they would be picked up by #53 for the ride into Memphis.  The E. Peoria ramp was replaced by another "Hub Center" at Bloomington, IL which was served by our (in)famous "Slingshots".

I have no idea why there was ever a ramp in Olney.

.

[MP173]

I stopped in Rantoul and got a shot in 1976 of a northbound with three ugly GP rebuilds.  To top it off there was a Geep parked in a siding next to the depot that wasnt rebuilt, but was repainted.  However, the day wasnt a complete disaster as there was a switcher 434 with a caboose also parked there...the switcher was still black/green diamond

My favorite spot to go when I came home from school was over to Effingham.  I would get there by 9am and sit in the depot.  Double tracks for both the PC/IC.  Made a lot of noise when trains crossed.  There was an operator in the depot that controlled the crossing and handed up train orders for both lines and served as an Amtrak agent.  He was not receptive to my inquiries.  Often when he saw me he would slam the door to his "office".  That didnt matter as I could listen in and also look at the display board.  It was always great to hear the "ding" meaning a train had hit the advance circuit.

Amtrak at that time ran both lines.  The National Limited was on the PC and the IC hosted the City of New Orleans plus the Shawnee to and from Carbondale.

Gabe I just came across one of my few photos of the Indy-Effingham line.  A westbound is kicking up the dust thru Dietrich, Il with tow rebuilds.  The first two cars are piggybacks!

Gilman was also an interesting spot as it had an operator that controlled the TPW crossing and also the St. Louis line.  There was a CTC machine in the depot that controlled the line up to Kankakee, I believe.\

Gabe...we need to get together some day and look at old pictures.

ed

[MP173]

Thanks Greyhound for the update.

Most of the piggybacks I saw were northbound.  Come to think of it there were few southbounds.  My photos confirm that as i usually took a picture of the engines and the caboose.

We actually had service in my little town of Dundas.  The population was about 125 and there was a team track.  The southbound train (295) would drop off loads of limestone, usually 2 or 3 loads at a time.  These were in IC hoppers.  Dont have any idea of where they came from. 

The elevator in Olney generated some grain.  I have shots of them switching covered hoppers.

The size of the trains  in the late sixties was 80 to 100 cars.  Big trains...often with 3 geeps.  After the CEI merger with L&N the trains started dwindling.

ed

[samfp1943]

Thanks Greyhound for the update.

Most of the piggybacks I saw were northbound.  Come to think of it there were few southbounds.  My photos confirm that as i usually took a picture of the engines and the caboose.

We actually had service in my little town of Dundas.  The population was about 125 and there was a team track.  The southbound train (295) would drop off loads of limestone, usually 2 or 3 loads at a time.  These were in IC hoppers.  Dont have any idea of where they came from. 

The elevator in Olney generated some grain.  I have shots of them switching covered hoppers.

The size of the trains  in the late sixties was 80 to 100 cars.  Big trains...often with 3 geeps.  After the CEI merger with L&N the trains started dwindling.

ed

Don't forget National Vinegar in Olney, glass containers and apples in, and apple cider vinegar out. Also the bicycle plant out by the road junction between Princton and Salem, Huffy, I think. Possibly, a couple of shipper that could utilize a piggy-back ramp? 

 

[tree68]

I stopped in Rantoul and got a shot in 1976 of a northbound with three ugly GP rebuilds.  To top it off there was a Geep parked in a siding next to the depot that wasnt rebuilt, but was repainted.  However, the day wasnt a complete disaster as there was a switcher 434 with a caboose also parked there...the switcher was still black/green diamond

Hey - Those Paducah rebuilds weren't ugly - just "unique..."  At least they were easy to spot, what with the 'ox yoke' air filters.  Loved the "frog eyes" headlights, too.  I'll have to rifle through my old pictures to see if I still have any of those ICG shots...

[MP173]

Greyhound:

I forgot about the AMF bike plant.  I worked there in the summer of 74 in the loading dock actually loading boxcars and trailers.  IC used to come in and switch quite a few boxcars.  Ah, how could I forget the vinegar plant!  I didnt know they shipped by rail.

There was some interchange there with the B&O.  Not sure of what/where, but I do recall seeing switching being done.

ed

[MP173]

Greyhound:

Do you have any special insite on the Iowa line...as far as why IC would have repurchased it back in the 90's?  It just doesnt seem to fit.

ed

[beaulieu]

Greyhound:

Do you have any special insite on the Iowa line...as far as why IC would have repurchased it back in the 90's?  It just doesnt seem to fit.

ed

I'm not Greyhounds, but the word was that they wanted the grain haul from Iowa to the Gulf. About the longest haul they could get. They haul unit trains of grain (chicken feed) for Tyson in Mississippi, unfortunately they sold the Meridan line so KCS terminates the traffic and tries to steal it too. Should have kept limited trackage rights. But of course when they sold it to MidSouth they didn't have the traffic

Don't forget that outside forces change circumstances and the economics of types of traffic change as the technology changes.  Traffic that was unprofitable at one time may become profitable again. I would think that Ethanol would be big on the Iowa Division with haulage to refineries in Louisiana being a nice long haul.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

To me, the IC will always be two strings of olive green MU cars stopping at 115th Street to exchange passengers while I waited to catch the South Shore home from high school.  IC's suburban operation was really something to see, with a frequency you rarely saw outside of the Northeast and 24-hour operations to go with it.  You had a four-track main line between Roosevelt Rd and 115th Street with a separate four-track main for through passenger trains and freights alongside.  To contrast with operations on the suburban main, you had slower service on the single-track Blue Island branch and the double-track South Chicago branch, with South Chicago trains easing down the median of 71st Street between Stony Island and Yates Blvd.  And all of this was operated with married-pair MU cars dating from the beginning of the electrification in 1926.

[Lyon_Wonder]

That former stretch of IC/ICG track paralleled Route 66 south of Springfield. 

[Murphy Siding]

 

The Sioux Falls trains stopped operating because we lost a bridge between Cherokee and SF.  That was a unique branch line operation.  We had a TOFC ramp at Sioux Falls and we handled westbound UPS (about five loads/day) over that ramp right untill that bridge went out.  We also hauled TOFC beef east from Sioux Falls that origniated from an IBP plant in Laverne(SP?), MN.  That little train hauled some high priority freight.  It connected to a Sioux City train at Cherokee which then connected to a Council Bluffs train at either Tama or Tara, I forget which.  It all worked.  We never got a service complaint from UPS or IBP.

     Somebody must have had to hustle pretty hard to get the IBP/Luverne business.  CRIP went through there, and I think CNW went right to the plant.  That, and Luverne is 30 miles east.

[Bob-Fryml]

My experiences with the Illinois Central, and later I.C.G., have been a mixed bag.

The Pullman Green M.U.s that protected the schedules in the eletrified zones of Illinois were among my favorites.  Cruisin' the south shore on an oppressively hot day with the windows wide open, a good breeze blowing through the coaches, sweat pouring through my shirt and onto their signature rattan-upholstered seats was southside railroading at its best.  And lest we forget, the interminable stench of creosote wafting upwards from all of those high level passenger platforms was a hoot-and-a-half.  Why the I.C.G. replaced them with clean, quiet, comfortable, air conditioned equipment is beyond me?

1969 or 1970 I rode the "Governor's Special" from Central Station, Chicago  to Springfield, Ill.  It was a pretty decent little vest pocket streamliner as I recall.  Later that day I caught some kind of tired "varnish" on the G.M.& O. and rode it back to Chicago Union Station.

A few years later I was working with the Missouri-Illinois Railroad in Sainte Genevieve, MO.  A couple of times per month the I.C.G. gave us multiple carload blocks of southern Illinois coal, shipments that were destined to a dolomite ore processor located in the lead belt north of Flat River, MO.  When the M.-I.'s carmen at Ste. Gen. finished inspecting the I.C.G. equipment for mechanical defects, somewhere between 30% and 50% of the cars had to go to the rip track for repair.  As I recall, non-functioning air brakes, excessive air brake piston travel, and a variety of wheel problems including sharp flanges, spalling, or too many flat spots were the heavy hitters.  Too, the I.C.G. equipment was old.  Whereas the MoPac and the Union Pacific were sending us coal shipments in roller-bearing-equipped, 100-ton capacity, open top hoppers, the I.C.G. was still using a lot of friction bearing / 77-tonners.  Switching out all of those d-mn I.C.G. loads certainly could bollox-up our tightly-run operation at Sainte Genevieve for awhile!

    

[greyhounds]

 

The Sioux Falls trains stopped operating because we lost a bridge between Cherokee and SF.  That was a unique branch line operation.  We had a TOFC ramp at Sioux Falls and we handled westbound UPS (about five loads/day) over that ramp right untill that bridge went out.  We also hauled TOFC beef east from Sioux Falls that origniated from an IBP plant in Laverne(SP?), MN.  That little train hauled some high priority freight.  It connected to a Sioux City train at Cherokee which then connected to a Council Bluffs train at either Tama or Tara, I forget which.  It all worked.  We never got a service complaint from UPS or IBP.

     Somebody must have had to hustle pretty hard to get the IBP/Luverne business.  CRIP went through there, and I think CNW went right to the plant.  That, and Luverne is 30 miles east.

Well, that 30 mile truck run into Sioux Falls didn't amount to much, we were the "service route", the railroad with the best service to Chicago, and, IIRC, niether C&NW or the Rock had a ramp to handle the TOFC.

That and we were the only railroad that still had "meat railer" trailers.  The product shipped from Luverne was "swinging meat".  Whole beef carcuses hung on meat hooks from the roof of the trailer.  There was a rail system under the roof that held the meat hooks which held the carcuses.

If a driver made a turn too sharp the meat could all swing over to one side, imbalance the trailer, and just roll the truck over.

Today the carcuses are cut up and boxed before shipment. 

An interesting part of moving meat was that it had to be kept Kosher.  That meant the railroad had Rabbis on the payrole (part time).  I am not Jewish and I'm not very familiar with what they did.  I do remember that we had to call 'em out to keep the meat saleable.

We never messed with that.  If a Rabbi was needed, he was called.

Today, there's a whole slaughterhouse in Postville, Iowa that is run by Rabbis.  It is unique in that it slaughters multiple spicies - most meat production is specialized to one animal.  And, of course, no pig needs to fear its Earthly Demise in this facility.

[MP173]

Greyhound:

How profitable were the IC piggyback trains that ran south out of Chicago?  I know they ran trains to New Orleans, and I believe to Memphis.

I think these were trains 50 - 53.  You mentioned earlier that the trains would stop at Mattoon for pickups/setouts.  My June 1974 Official Guide shows 51 leaving Chicago at 530pm and arriving in Memphis at 830am the following morning.  That is hustling.   Northbound 50 would leave Memphis at 615pm with a 9am arrival in Chicago.  That is 525 miles overnight.

I would have thought that would have been extremely competitive with trucking.  How was the service?  Was it reliable or had the mainline begun to have problems?  Who were the major shippers or products shipped?  UPS?

Does anyone know what CN is doing now with this service?

What really surprizes me is that CN has not aggressively pursued Detroit - Memphis type of intermodal.  Living on the CN main (GTW) here in Indiana, they only run 1 intermodal each way and that is Halifax - Chicago.  Nothing that turns south.  Wonder why?

ed